Remove only from secondary group when purchase expires or is canceled?

[OptimusBain]

Hello,

I am wondering whether it's possible to remove a user ONLY from the secondary group when a purchase expires or is canceled. I don't see that option in ACP.

I would like to remove the privileges from the secondary group when the product expires but leave the user in the primary group since he's still a member of the community and still has some privileges. The way it's done now, the user is removed from all privileges when the purchase expires.

Thanks

[opentype]

What kind of setup do you have now? It sounds like you are doing something unusual. 

Normally, it’s pretty straightforward: There is a default member group and with a purchase you either:

• move to a different primary group with the option to revert the change when the purchase expires
• add a secondary group with the option to remove that secondary group when the purchase expires

In both cases, the privileges from the paid group are removed and the standard permissions apply again. 

[OptimusBain]

4 hours ago, opentype said:

What kind of setup do you have now? It sounds like you are doing something unusual. 

Normally, it’s pretty straightforward: There is a default member group and with a purchase you either:

• move to a different primary group with the option to revert the change when the purchase expires
• add a secondary group with the option to remove that secondary group when the purchase expires

In both cases, the privileges from the paid group are removed and the standard permissions apply again. 

Thanks for taking the time to reply.

I understand the current functionalities, but I can't make what I need.

This is what I want to do:

1. User signs up to buy a course. He will be assigned the primary group course and a secondary group called course _support

2. Users will have access to the course page created preciselu with one of @opentypepages app. They will always have access to it since they purchased the course. So the privileges gained by the primary group should never be revoked

3. The user will also be assigned to a secondary group course_support that will give him access to ask questions about the course as long as he is paying the monthly renewal fee.

The thing is that IF the user cancels the renewals, he will lose access to EVERYTHING including the primary group which granted him access to the course page 😞

The access is revoked from both the primary and secondary groups. I believe there is no option to remove a user from either the primary or the secondary group.

Now when the user cancels the monthly renewal and he will loss access to the course page and everything.

I would love to do that but I can't see how I would be accomplish this:

1. User buys a course 

2. User buys monthly support renewals

3. User cancels monthly renewal but he should still have access to the course in the primary group 

Is there a way to create this scenario?

thanks 

Edited July 31, 2022 by OptimusBain

[opentype]

13 minutes ago, OptimusBain said:

The access is revoked from both the primary and secondary groups. I believe there is no option to remove a user from either the primary or the secondary group.

Do you use the newer subscription system or the ‘Commerce products as subscription’. The latter does indeed have the option to control the group change independently for primary and secondary groups. 

For regular subscriptions, I am not sure. There might be a way to use the group promotion system, so one of the group changes becomes independent from the subscription and the existence of the other is used as the trigger. 

[OptimusBain]

19 minutes ago, opentype said:

Do you use the newer subscription system or the ‘Commerce products as subscription’. The latter does indeed have the option to control the group change independently for primary and secondary groups. 

For regular subscriptions, I am not sure. There might be a way to use the group promotion system, so one of the group changes becomes independent from the subscription and the existence of the other is used as the trigger. 

I am always using the products module, not the subscription one. I am not sure whether I can create this combo of course + support using maybe the product+ subscription module.

It would be great if someone from the IPS team could tell me if this is possible and how.

Thanks 

[opentype]

You still haven’t fully explained your setup. How are you selling two parts (course + support) at once. Is this all done with one product? Or a bundle? This will make a difference. What you ask for is possible. The answer is yes. But no one will be able to tell if it is compatible with your current implementation. 

[OptimusBain]

7 minutes ago, opentype said:

You still haven’t fully explained your setup. How are you selling two parts (course + support) at once. Is this all done with one product? Or a bundle? This will make a difference. What you ask for is possible. The answer is yes. But no one will be able to tell if it is compatible with your current implementation. 

I thought I had explained, maybe I didn't explain myself correctly. I really appreciate you taking the time to answer my doubts even though you are not part of IPS staff. Very much appreciated! Kudos!

Right now, I am using a product that has renewals. I charge an initial $X price and then monthly renewals at $Y. 

I don't know how to create a bundle 😞 I asked support a few weeks ago and I understood that bundles are not possible.

This is what I want. I don't know wether it's possible with products or subscriptions, or a combination of both.

Imagine this scenario:

1. User adds a course to the cart. He should have the possibility to choose support for Q&A about the course
2. If support renewal is added then it will be added to the cart together with the course. If not, then only the course will be added and the user won't be able to ask questions
3. Primary user group will change to "course" if the course is purchased
4. Secondary group "monthly support" would be added to the secondary group if support is chosen
5. If user cancels the support subscription, the secondary group privileges will be revoked
6. The user will still have access to the primary group that grants him access to reading the course in a page module that I created with your page app @opentype

I am currently using products with renewals and I can't make it work with that configuration. I am willing to change my configuration but I need to know how this setup could be created.

I just want users to:

1. Buy a course
2. (Optionally) buy monthly support (renewal) that will grant him access to a private channel/forum where he can ask questions
3. if he cancels the monthly renewal support, he should NOT lose access to the course's primary group

Thanks so much

[opentype]

Oh, the support is optional! That complicates things. You can’t add an optional subscription to a Commerce product. And I assume the website will only ever offer one course? Because otherwise assigning the permissions as a primary group wouldn’t make sense, since one can only ever be in one primary group. 

A simple solution would be to split this up and create one product that includes the support and one product that doesn’t include the support. So, the user doesn’t make a choice on the product page, but instead makes the choice on the product listing page! Then for one product you add the support group and for the other you don’t. You can also let the user stay in the primary group when the product is not renewed and the secondary group access is revoked. At least the interface suggests, that this is possible. 

The only other option is to create product bundles of multiple products, but I think you already explored that in earlier topics. It might work technically, but the way these choices are presented to the users might be less than ideal. 

[OptimusBain]

1 hour ago, opentype said:

Oh, the support is optional! That complicates things. You can’t add an optional subscription to a Commerce product. And I assume the website will only ever offer one course? Because otherwise assigning the permissions as a primary group wouldn’t make sense, since one can only ever be in one primary group. 

A simple solution would be to split this up and create one product that includes the support and one product that doesn’t include the support. So, the user doesn’t make a choice on the product page, but instead makes the choice on the product listing page! Then for one product you add the support group and for the other you don’t. You can also let the user stay in the primary group when the product is not renewed and the secondary group access is revoked. At least the interface suggests, that this is possible. 

The only other option is to create product bundles of multiple products, but I think you already explored that in earlier topics. It might work technically, but the way these choices are presented to the users might be less than ideal. 

Thanks a lot for your detailed explanation.

I will have other courses soon, therefore the primary secondary approach won't be a good idea. I will need secondary user groups.

The way I've it now is as you described; two products, one with support, another one without it. This approach does not work as I expect because when the supported version of the product is canceled, the user will lose access to the course. Imagine, you buy a course, you should have unlimited access to it. If the product includes renewals, the user will lose access if the renewal is canceled because there I no way to revoke access from a selected secondary or primary group. The privileges are revoked from all the user groups as explained in ACP settings.

[opentype]

10 minutes ago, OptimusBain said:

The privileges are revoked from all the user groups as explained in ACP settings.

They are removed from the same type of group. There are however independent settings for primary and secondary groups. 

And that was the question from your first post. That’s why I said multiple times it is possible. 

 

But if you will have multiple courses, you really need to make the course product(s) and the support product(s) independent products (possibly linked based on your requirements). You will not be able to combine this properly into one product. People who buy one product, buy one product. You are trying to sell two products as one—a course that never expires and a support product that can expire. That’s not how Commerce understands a product. Either it is a subscription product or not—not both at once.