chilihead Posted June 2, 2015 Posted June 2, 2015 Per @Mark from source."When you upgrade from IP.Board 3.x to IPS Community Suite 4, if you have any existing PayPal Subscriptions, PayPal will keep charging users but IPS Community Suite will not be aware of this. Therefore, we recommend cancelling any existing PayPal Subscriptions through your PayPal account at paypal.com. Users will then be issued an invoice at renewal time and can pay via your site, when they do so, as mentioned, they can opt to store their card details for subsequent charges."I have to cancel hundreds of monthly subs and hope they re-purchase?Can't you create a legacy gateway/API so they still function correctly? You can because they still work in 3.8. So why not create a gateway called PayPal Legacy with the old API so at least the current subs work? Just don't have it on the frontend.
tekguru Posted June 2, 2015 Posted June 2, 2015 If that is the situation this is damned ridiculous! Likely to be the death of my site.
chilihead Posted June 2, 2015 Author Posted June 2, 2015 I honestly can't believe this is the solution. Just cancel them. Sites with thousands are going to be fuming. Obviously PayPal offers the old API because it will continue to work on 3.8, and they don't want to break the millions of subscriptions in their system! But IPS wants us to cancel them.
tekguru Posted June 2, 2015 Posted June 2, 2015 Agreed, and I know from experience when things like this happen you can expect to lose 30-40% of your subscribers, that'll kill us completely.
Wayne B Posted June 2, 2015 Posted June 2, 2015 I think Invision really need to offer a solution for this ASAP@Charles - any thoughts please?
HeadStand Posted June 3, 2015 Posted June 3, 2015 This is death to sites that make use of recurring payments. If customers set up their subscriptions to auto-renew, it is likely that at least half of them will not come back to set up a new one. For some sites, that's thousands of dollars in lost revenue.
Whiskey Bizness Posted June 3, 2015 Posted June 3, 2015 Well, this may stop me from pushing forward to upgrade my community to 4.0 anytime soon. This would be instant death for my business.
Management Lindy Posted June 3, 2015 Management Posted June 3, 2015 Firstly, to everyone - please stop tagging specific employees for general IPS concerns -- if you need to speak to someone directly, feel free to contact them individually. For general concerns, the person responsible for any given area in IPS will address it accordingly. Thanks for your cooperation on that.As for the issue at hand, we'll discuss internally to see if we can come up with a solution. We'll let you know what we come up with.
MADMAN32395 Posted June 3, 2015 Posted June 3, 2015 Honestly I dont know why everyone is freaking out. It was easy to transfer my community to Stripe. Same cost as paypal, but better end support; that and their TOS does not screw over the community owners.
tekguru Posted June 3, 2015 Posted June 3, 2015 As for the issue at hand, we'll discuss internally to see if we can come up with a solution. We'll let you know what we come up with.I hope you can as this is mega critical for us, if we lose the subscribers I feel that we may then we'll be closing down within 3 months!
pesci Posted June 3, 2015 Posted June 3, 2015 As someone that just upgraded to 4.0 last week and uses paypal subscriptions for revenue I can tell you this is a very valid concern. If this was brought to my attention last week I probably would not have upgraded.Here is what happens, at least on my board....Paypal continues to charge the subscription, you continue to get subscription fees. IPS is unaware that a payment is made, so subscribers lose subscription status and privileges, so naturally they contact you about it. An admin must then go and give them their privileges back manually. We are not cancelling our paypal subscriptions at the moment as IPS has advised. Instead we are adjusting as needed and asking our members to cancel their own subscription and re-up under the new system, which luckily they are happy to do. (happy customers are great)We will continue to keep an eye on the paypal subscriptions manually and make the needed adjustments. As an aside, credit card payments aren't working for us either. The month of the card expiration defaults back to January and of course the transaction doesn't go through. Still waiting on a fix for that from support. As a second aside, out revenue from advertisements have gone up significantly under IPS4 as it loads much faster, increasing views, CPMs, and everything else.
tekguru Posted June 3, 2015 Posted June 3, 2015 What I'm planning to do is to advise the subscribers of the issue and in the interim leave the system as it is and when we get the subscription email in from PayPal I'll manually process the subscription and mark the IPB invoice as paid. A pain in the backside but it'll get us through.
ipslover Posted June 3, 2015 Posted June 3, 2015 What about new subscriptions of new 4.0 communities?
pesci Posted June 3, 2015 Posted June 3, 2015 What about new subscriptions of new 4.0 communities?New subscriptions work fine for me.
ZakRhyno Posted June 3, 2015 Posted June 3, 2015 It better way before upgrading as issues need to still be corrected. There are still main system problems, why rush to upgrade to something that is not yet done done yet?
Myr Posted June 3, 2015 Posted June 3, 2015 This will be a definite issue for our site as well. Fortunately for us, we're waiting on custom modules before upgrading so we didn't get caught in this. A solution will be critical before we upgrade though.
NoGi Posted June 4, 2015 Posted June 4, 2015 When I took over my site, I had to get the previous owner to cancel the paypal subscriptions so that they could be recreated with me as the owner (PayPal can't let users migrate subscribers from one account to another). I lost around 60% of subscribers during this process. If I had to do that again, would be in the same boat and risk loosing my remaining subscribers.I really hope the guys here come up with a solution to deal with the legacy gateway.
tekguru Posted June 4, 2015 Posted June 4, 2015 I discussed it with my team last night and of those who subscribe via the old method around half said they'd not be willing to use any method where their credit card details are stored locally.Again Invision need to address this issue and not hope it will just go away - of maybe it will as those of us why rely on the old method will end up closing our forums.
opentype Posted June 4, 2015 Posted June 4, 2015 … they'd not be willing to use any method where their credit card details are stored locally.Has anything changed in that regard!?
tekguru Posted June 4, 2015 Posted June 4, 2015 It reads 'they can opt to store their card details for subsequent charges.', so it looks that way.
opentype Posted June 4, 2015 Posted June 4, 2015 It reads 'they can opt to store their card details for subsequent charges.', so it looks that way.Where?I doubt that this storage is done locally.
tekguru Posted June 4, 2015 Posted June 4, 2015 Here:IP.Nexus for IP.Board 3.x used an older version of PayPal's API (that is to say, their system for integrating with them) which included support for PayPal Subscriptions. A user could, at checkout, opt for a subscription where payment would be taken automatically at the time of renewal and IP.Nexus would be notified when this happens.IPS Community Suite 4 uses PayPal's new API which no longer supports this feature. The new API supports recurring payments in a slightly different way. Now, the instigation of the renewal comes from the application's end rather than PayPal's end. This is much more reliable, since if you change the purchase details within your community, everything still works correctly, whereas before, PayPal would keep charging by the original payment terms.When you set up your payment methods in IPS Community Suite 4 you will see the option to allow users to pay by card, or PayPal. We recommend you set up both to give the user the option when they make a purchase to enter their card details directly on your site (in this case they are not aware the payment is being processed by PayPal) or by explicitly using the PayPal site. With this set up, if they choose to pay by card, they will see the option to store their card details and subsequently will be charged automatically. If they opt not to store their card details, they will be issued an invoice at renewal time and sent an email with instructions to pay. If they choose to pay by using the PayPal site, recurring payments are not handled automatically and will be issued an invoice in the same way. When you upgrade from IP.Board 3.x to IPS Community Suite 4, if you have any existing PayPal Subscriptions, PayPal will keep charging users but IPS Community Suite will not be aware of this. Therefore, we recommend cancelling any existing PayPal Subscriptions through your PayPal account at paypal.com. Users will then be issued an invoice at renewal time and can pay via your site, when they do so, as mentioned, they can opt to store their card details for subsequent charges.As you can see.......
Ahmad E. Posted June 4, 2015 Posted June 4, 2015 Here:As you can see.......They are still stored @PayPal and not locally.
chilihead Posted June 4, 2015 Author Posted June 4, 2015 Wait... this is making even less sense to me...When you set up your payment methods in IPS Community Suite 4 you will see the option to allow users to pay by card, or PayPal. We recommend you set up both to give the user the option when they make a purchase to enter their card details directly on your site (in this case they are not aware the payment is being processed by PayPal) or by explicitly using the PayPal site. With this set up, if they choose to pay by card, they will see the option to store their card details and subsequently will be charged automatically. If they opt not to store their card details, they will be issued an invoice at renewal time and sent an email with instructions to pay. If they choose to pay by using the PayPal site, recurring payments are not handled automatically and will be issued an invoice in the same way.So this sounds like it is even going to mess with my new subscriptions. I have monthly automatic payments, you are saying now if they choose PP instead of CC they will get an invoice and have to pay manually again? Really??I know PP has not removed this function so... what the heck?They are still stored @PayPal and not locally.If you read it it says they are entered on our sites. We need clarification on these issues. Even if stored on PP it says the customer is not aware. "We recommend you set up both to give the user the option when they make a purchase to enter their card details directly on your site (in this case they are not aware the payment is being processed by PayPal)." But it does seem they are stored locally.
Ahmad E. Posted June 4, 2015 Posted June 4, 2015 If you read it it says they are entered on our sites. We need clarification on these issues. Even if stored on PP it says the customer is not aware. "We recommend you set up both to give the user the option when they make a purchase to enter their card details directly on your site (in this case they are not aware the payment is being processed by PayPal)"Yeah, they're entered on your site then sent over to paypal and stored there. Your users will most likely think that they're stored locally yeah.
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