Marketplace Closure

[Hisashi]

53 minutes ago, Charles said:

Trust me. You have no idea how many problematic things we prevented from being published in the Marketplace over the years.

This is interesting, could publish some guides for customers to identify malicious codes in third party applications. Of course, this requires some experience, as it is not literally exact, but some information would be a good start.

[Clover13]

42 minutes ago, LiquidFractal said:

In the end, though, I don't think anything can eliminate the question of vetting - whether Invision did it or a 3rd-party dev does it.  Whether there's a Marketplace or not, it comes down to reputation and trust.

There are automated tools that can be run against code bases to scan for vulnerable code and libraries.  Reputation and trust alone are not enough when it comes to software.  Developers with the best intentions can still unknowingly use something they are unaware of has an exploit (in deep dependencies, it can be something they aren't even using directly, but is included in their code base).  It's simply good practice to run scans (code, infrastructure, app testing, etc) regularly to ensure security.  Doesn't mean there's no risk, but it does greatly reduce it.

[Hezeber]

I was disappointed when I first heard about this. After reading all the posts in this topic I understand the decision and I feel more hopeful.

I'm glad developers will have more freedom. I didn't like the direction Invision was going with forcing installations from the MarketPlace in the AdminCP. I'd rather have the option of getting apps directly from the developers, but I didn't before because developers couldn't promote their websites within the Marketplace. It was hard to tell who actively supported products on their own website. I also like that developers will be able to make apps that more directly compete with other apps or restore removed features. I like that developers can quickly release bug fixes without waiting days for IPS to approve it.

I would still like a way to quickly search for modifications without visiting dozens of websites, but I think an external website can work quite well. I used to use vBulletin before they tanked, and their modification directory was hosted on a separate domain. It was an active community before version 5. I think anyone who cared about modifying their software could easily find it if they tried. That one was a simple forum, but I imagine one using IPS applications will be more robust.

As a customer, I'll continue to purchase and support apps from third-party devs. I hope that other customers will too and that the developers will be motivated enough to maintain their apps elsewhere.

[Ocean West]

Would it be possible when this goes into effect; in our ACP for our currently installed apps/plugins (enabled or disabled) to have a new LINK to the actual provider in the new Providers Directory and a placeholder for known but inactive providers who have yet to set up their profile?  

On 8/15/2023 at 5:59 PM, Robert Angle said:

I could care less if I am getting a 3rd party app/plugin or theme from outside the marketplace, but it was nice to have a one stop shop to search for what's available.

Yea one-stop-shop, to find what is available is invaluable. 

At least add a TAG/CATEGORY to the Providers directory for Product Marketplace if one of these providers will host and maintain an amalgamation of products of their own and others who sell for the platform. 

Hopefully, discussions of Marketplaces and future requests for <insert app that does xyz> will not be forboden such as conversations about web hosting companies and related topics. 

 

[bing11]

I don't think it is good idea  do this.

Apple and google never think about  to close apple store and  google play.

 

Marketplace is not making money or it is making more job . But It can make me go to this site everyday.

 

[Ocean West]

Curious about what will happen to the Marketplace forum will that go to read-only? There may be posts that are still valuable. In addition to existing reviews of said apps? Will this data be transferred to whatever takes the place of this?

Edited August 17, 2023 by Ocean West

[WP V0RT3X]

8 hours ago, LiquidFractal said:

So unless I'm missing something, this means that if a developer doesn't have or is somehow unable to start their own independent website then they have no way to maintain their apps/plugins?

Wrong, you don't need an own shop (not even own forum for support). You can use a third party service, FetchApp or DPD for example.

You post your application in the new Marketplace just like now, but instead uploading a file you post a link to the file you have uploaded there. They handle all the rest, payments etc. and for support you use the forums of the new MP.

One of the biggest XF developers is using it for years.

[Marc Stridgen]

9 hours ago, Hisashi said:

This is interesting, could publish some guides for customers to identify malicious codes in third party applications. Of course, this requires some experience, as it is not literally exact, but some information would be a good start.

There are scanners out there for that purpose. Anything we posted which was literally "Check for this as we have seen x" would also be an advertisement to those writing malicious code "Avoid x as we are seeing it". This is, for example, the reason we don't disclose rules relating to our spam system. Any disclosure would result in telling spammers how to avoid it.

This said, however. It's simply not our responsibility to check the code of 3rd party developers. As with any developer you purchase any written code on the internet, you are purchasing on some level of trust and reputation. 

7 hours ago, bing11 said:

I don't think it is good idea  do this.

Apple and google never think about  to close apple store and  google play.

 

Marketplace is not making money or it is making more job . But It can make me go to this site everyday.

This actually used to be the case. What's known as a loss leader. However, there comes a point where the benefits are not outweighing the costs. This is the case here. In the case of Apple and google, you are looking at marketplaces/stores of several million items, all of which make money for those companies. They also have very very very very large budgets for these things.

In our case, as already explained, the market for this has been in decline for quite a few years now. This is not to say there isn't a place for 3rd party items. However, it is to say that its not cost-effective, or an effective use of time, to host these items ourselves. Whether it be the files themselves or directories of files, these involve time from the staff here that are better put toward the main product for the benefit of all.

7 hours ago, Ocean West said:

Curious about what will happen to the Marketplace forum will that go to read-only? There may be posts that are still valuable. In addition to existing reviews of said apps? Will this data be transferred to whatever takes the place of this?

We will decide more on this nearer the time.

 

[PatrickRQ]

@Lindy There is plenty of changes you, IPS, introduced recently. Some are scary, some leave a room for fear of what next..

I could read you say you are about to improve providers directory.. however.. for years there is area of your community that remains same for years.. feedback/suggestions. Are you going to take closer look on improvement on that area, so you implement more requested features in much higher frequency than it was till now? That could be great equivalent/replacement for retired Marketplace.

[Matt]

2 hours ago, PatrickRQ said:

so you implement more requested features in much higher frequency than it was till now?

No. Just because a feature request is popular, it doesn't mean that it's right for the product, will enhance the community experience for community members and move the product forward.

It is also unfair to have the product guided by a small number of customers that visit the forums and take time to comment on feature requests. The forum does not record the hundreds of conversations we have with other clients over email, regular meetings and so on.

We try and account for most things but more often than not what is suggested in feedback is generally minor tinkering around the edges when more bold action is often needed. That is not to say that we do not read every topic and discuss most of them. Quite often a popular request that we hear over and over makes its way into the software but perhaps not in the way that the topic author described.

2 hours ago, PatrickRQ said:

There is plenty of changes you, IPS, introduced recently. Some are scary, some leave a room for fear of what next

I completely understand this feeling. The last six months or so have been a pretty dark timeline of mostly negative news, especially for self-hosted customers. The introduction of cloud exclusive features, talks of falling profitability for self hosted license sales, a long list of deprecated features people use, v5 dev tools overhaul, the marketplace closing - it's been a lot and we recognise that.

Now that the bad stuff is out of the way, we can start talking about v5 and there is a lot of fun stuff to get into. Invision Community 5 is a new chapter for the product and us as a company. A more streamlined and focused operation fit for the next decade of community building.

[jesuralem]

I honestly can't decide whether this is good or bad news, I understand both point of views.

My 2 cts (definitely not worth more):

- I like the idea that devs will have more freedom, but the risk of security issue is real issue for me. Most of us do not have the money to perform professional security assessment of our sites. I liked the idea that ips reviewed proposed ressources.

- the centralized aspect of the marketplace was very simple for community owners, hopefully we will have a viable alternative.

- marketplace ressources and discussion is one of the main reason I come here, the impact on this community might be an issue.

 

Globally this looks like another step toward "big customers" who can pay for specific dev and further away from small community owners who try to improve their community for a few $.

 

What is surprising is that it looks like you invested in the marketplace not so long ago integrating it in the admincp and with the compatibility check etc...

Also I guess a big part of the costs is about resource checking which is something you implemented not so long ago and actually might explain part of the marketplace activity decrease one the devs part.

 

In the end, we will see how this goes but honestly the 3 months warning is clearly not enough and a change of this magnitude deserve better that an announce in the middle of the summer with a short warning.

 

[Marc Stridgen]

53 minutes ago, jesuralem said:

- I like the idea that devs will have more freedom, but the risk of security issue is real issue for me. Most of us do not have the money to perform professional security assessment of our sites. I liked the idea that ips reviewed proposed ressources.

IPS reviewed code to ensure it adheres to our marketplace guidelines. What we do not do is check every line of code for security issues and serious issues that may arise from installing them. This very much a misconception of what we do. There are no guarentees that a code review will prevent any malicious, bad, exploit code etc. Adding 3rd party code to your website is at your own risk. This has always been the case. 

[DawPi]

Why everyone speaking about exploits form 3rd party developers still? When someone did something like this? This is a definite exaggeration and I ask you to stop such claims.

[Marc Stridgen]

39 minutes ago, DawPi said:

Why everyone speaking about exploits form 3rd party developers still? When someone did something like this? This is a definite exaggeration and I ask you to stop such claims.

I feel you may want to re-read the above. There are no claims anyone has done such as thing that I have read in this topic. Someone has asked about what security precautions they can use on their site when using items that are developed by someone other than Invision.  I'm sure as a developer yourself, you appreciate the importance of someone thinking about the security of their site?

[StreamGro]

I'm generally pretty excited about this, it's always good too see change. 

I do have one concern though, and that's that the filtering option on the current 'Providers Directory' isn't really too helpful in terms of what the creators provide. 

It would be far more useful to have perhaps examples of their work on that page rather than being re-directed to a whole external site for me to sit and sift through to find what I potentially might be looking for - it almost feels like im going to be endlessly searching for a developer who suits my needs.

 

Like I said though, excited to see the change and whats to come of this. Thanks, Invision! ❤️ 

[Marc Stridgen]

5 minutes ago, StreamGro said:

I do have one concern though, and that's that the filtering option on the current 'Providers Directory' isn't really too helpful in terms of what the creators provide. 

You can always use search in the top right also 🙂

 

[Chris027]

4 hours ago, Matt said:

Now that the bad stuff is out of the way, we can start talking about v5 and there is a lot of fun stuff to get into. Invision Community 5 is a new chapter for the product and us as a company. A more streamlined and focused operation fit for the next decade of community building.

When using an app for fun, this kind of thing got me excited.

I use IPS for my business, so this means nothing but problems and tons of work coming soon. My community likes stability and hates change just for change sake. V5 sounds like a bunch of change, even for everyone who wants to maintain the same experience for their communities. 

[Charles]

5 minutes ago, Chris027 said:

When using an app for fun, this kind of thing got me excited.

I use IPS for my business, so this means nothing but problems and tons of work coming soon. My community likes stability and hates change just for change sake. V5 sounds like a bunch of change, even for everyone who wants to maintain the same experience for their communities. 

The best way to kill a community is to refuse to keep up with new ways that people consume content.

[Chris027]

1 minute ago, Charles said:

The best way to kill a community is to refuse to keep up with new ways that people consume content.

I don't suffer from FOMO and I understand my community far better than anyone else. I don't jump on bandwagons or follow the herd. Only dead fish swim with the current. 

It's about having vision and content, not the new shiny object. 

[Matt]

26 minutes ago, Chris027 said:

V5 sounds like a bunch of change, even for everyone who wants to maintain the same experience for their communities. 

v5 is a significant step forward for UI, discovery, noise versus signal and brand matching. Change is hard but it is kind of inevitable.

If nothing changed, then we'd still be using this:

And while you could absolutely run a successful community on that product even now, the chances of attracting new members would be low given the expectations modern audiences have for UI and ease of use.

[Alexandru]

On 8/15/2023 at 3:48 PM, Charles said:

Marketplace authors have known about this change for a while now and some are looking to create their own Marketplace-like web site.

It sounds like a promising project and they are welcome to talk about it here.

True but not all. I had plans to release multiple themes at once on the marketplace that I've been working on them for a long time now and still working 😛 

But it's a change that we all need to adapt to it and with that said I will need to start creating my own portfolio and a marketplace-web. 

[Robert Angle]

This won't be a big deal. I'm assuming there will be a forum here where 3rd party apps will be introduced, discussed, and possibly even supported. You just have to go off-site to purchase and obtain them.

[Miss_B]

11 minutes ago, Matt said:

And while you could absolutely run a successful community on that product even now, the chances of attracting new members would be low given the expectations modern audiences have for UI and ease of use.

Very well said. Another reason imo to always keep up to date with the latest versions of whatever scripts one is running on their server, is formost security and bug fixes. 

[Chris027]

5 minutes ago, Matt said:

v5 is a significant step forward for UI, discovery, noise versus signal and brand matching. Change is hard but it is kind of inevitable.

If nothing changed, then we'd still be using this:

And while you could absolutely run a successful community on that product even now, the chances of attracting new members would be low given the expectations modern audiences have for UI and ease of use.

Thank for the more reasonable reply. I hear you, but also am hesitant to buy into change when the only information available is sparse. There are some awesome communities full of information and interaction, still running terrible looking versions of software. For them, it's about getting and giving information fast and efficiently. This is the opposite of a site like YouTube where it's about dragging people along until you can show another commercial or sponsored segment or the site trying to get you to watch more videos until your eyes dry out. 

Perhaps I'm the only person without patience to weed through a mountain of garbage just to get the nugget of info I need. Much of the internet has become exhausting now days. 

I frequently think of this magazine cover compared to magazines of today and websites where there is so much going on it causes a headache. More isn't automatically better, and neither is less. There's a happy medium, and using technology to meet needs is always good.

 

[Matt]

I hear you 100% but we are not the arbiters of human habits, we just respond to them.

There are loads of old forums still busy but the bulk of those members and that content was generated a decade ago and they are kept alive by an older member base and probably good authority with Google bringing people in for short transactional exchanges.

We have a responsibility to you and our other customers to keep driving forward, it is pretty relentless. The worst thing we could do is just continue doing the same things and we lose marketshare and your community stagnates and goes into a slow decline.

Communities are more complex than a basic forum and very few have the patience to click loads of links in the hopes of having good content to read.

v5 will help with transactional content (I need an answer to this problem) and more social content (Lets discuss Thing) as well as content discovery.