R1-Limited Posted March 5, 2012 Posted March 5, 2012 In my best terminator voice Oct 3rd 2009 IPB became self aware, it began by shutting down all skins and then moved to apps. Before the human could react it started nuclear war to destroy the skinners.
Management Charles Posted March 5, 2012 Management Posted March 5, 2012 We would love to be able to make upgrades easier on skins but as soon as you start customizing them there is no way to know what you did and how to merge that into what we did.
Marcher Technologies Posted March 5, 2012 Posted March 5, 2012 Originally we were talking about the board layout design and I don't think anyone here is opposed to new features and fixes. Feature and compatibility changes happen, but that doesn't mean it's fine to be inconsiderate. Changing stuff just be new because it's new or because something wasn't thought out well isn't good design. Breaking skins isn't appreciated for some people who run boards and it's not fun for the forum's users if it's a design they liked. There are also likely people who do stop upgrading I know there was a long period of time before I went from 3.1 to 3.2 but I was loyal enough (among other reasons) to keep my license active. ... frankly.... IPB does not break skins in the true sense. on large version updates, yes, the skin clearly will need an overhaul... but you have obviously never been through another software's upgrades, or praise would be ringing instead of complaint at the few changes needed in small version upgrades.....
Jυra Posted March 5, 2012 Posted March 5, 2012 you have obviously never been through another software's upgrades I have. They were left intact until or if I decided to have changes done.
Marcher Technologies Posted March 5, 2012 Posted March 5, 2012 I have. They were left intact until or if I decided to have changes done. and... pray-tell, what is a skin? a customized template/css. The changes you refer to are inherent to the skin. default upgrades as it should.... you DID customize/change it, or the skinner did.
Jυra Posted March 5, 2012 Posted March 5, 2012 They did not require any changes between upgrades and I didn't state I or any skinner made any.
Marcher Technologies Posted March 5, 2012 Posted March 5, 2012 They did not require any changes between upgrades. ....so IPB is to be locked into a specific template set, even if bugs are present? :logik: the SEO changes blogged about, you would prefer to not have to update a skin whatsoever simply to hold onto your design til the end of days? :laugh: I would personally loath use of a software that literally nothing changes with an upgrade... how exactly does one quantify that as a version if no changes are made? No functionality added? No bugs fixed? That, to me, sounds quite much like a gimmick upgrade. :hmm:
Heyhoe Posted March 5, 2012 Posted March 5, 2012 I think maybe the issue that they are getting at is more the frequency of releases that require skin changes. Having to update skins is just a consequence of IPS development cycle.. They develop it all the time. You either stick with an older version for longer or update and adapt the skin. HOWEVER I don't necessarily agree that users should have to update to the latest version (complete with new features and bugs) just so they can get the bug fixes for the previous version. This however depends what bug fixes you really need, and if they are actually show stopping bugs, which unless I'm mistaken, there are not too many of in IPB.
bfarber Posted March 5, 2012 Posted March 5, 2012 Google's front-page can last forever. Just change the menu at the top every week. Google's homepage has changed many MANY times over the past few years. Just recently they implemented "live search" or "search suggestions" or whatever you want to label it (within the past year or so). Translating this to a software package like IPB....that would mean template updates. Even the menu at the top of the page that can be changed once a week would translate into template changes when you consider a package that is released (like IPB). There is simply no way to avoid it.
Rimi Posted March 5, 2012 Posted March 5, 2012 Google's homepage has changed many MANY times over the past few years. Just recently they implemented "live search" or "search suggestions" or whatever you want to label it (within the past year or so). Translating this to a software package like IPB....that would mean template updates. Even the menu at the top of the page that can be changed once a week would translate into template changes when you consider a package that is released (like IPB). There is simply no way to avoid it.It was just a joke.
Rimi Posted March 5, 2012 Posted March 5, 2012 Pokemon's for Kids :wink:That's not even the point. ^^ Troll alert...Certainly.
Enkidu Posted March 5, 2012 Posted March 5, 2012 How dare this software evolve! Shame on IPS, I should not have to redo my skins twice a decade. There is two sides to it really. From a skinner point of view, it is a disaster! because he/she will have to upgrade all of his/her skins. This could be very time consuming and pretty much fruitless as many customers would expect the upgraded version to be released free of charge. So the skinner would end up working hours for free.
Marcher Technologies Posted March 5, 2012 Posted March 5, 2012 There is two sides to it really. From a skinner point of view, it is a disaster! because he/she will have to upgrade all of his/her skins. This could be very time consuming and pretty much fruitless as many customers would expect the upgraded version to be released free of charge. So the skinner would end up working hours for free. ..... sheer LOL. I happen to have many many Content blocks/templates I have to patch of my own production.... Skinners got it easy.... skins not gonna fatal error out on a minor upgrade cycle.
Marcher Technologies Posted March 5, 2012 Posted March 5, 2012 Marcher vs. Enkidu Round 3? nope, I said my 2 cents, stated a fact, no bouts, not enough time nor effort to spare.... do not really care of the response.
Aiwa Posted March 5, 2012 Posted March 5, 2012 Inconsiderate? I offered a solution, don't upgrade, and a way to keep your board running for as long as possible. If you, the board owner, want 'feature' updates or ehancements, you need a hook or to modify the templates to display them, right? Hooks have gone a LONG way to reducing the skin changes required. You can add/remove code from here or there and not have to change the skin templates. But at the end of the day, some changes just MUST be a skin template change. You can go too far with hooks though.. I've seen some boards with 50+ hooks installed and it can get out of hand, quick.
Cyrem Posted March 6, 2012 Posted March 6, 2012 Ah.... *shudders* as a note... this site here uses tables, so someone is not paying attention... :turned: I was reffering to an entire website using a table for it's layout... like many sites did in the 90's. New sites simply do not use tables like that anymore. Yes Rimi, content is important. But think of it this way, if you had two versions of the website that contained the same content... but one was up to date with standards. Which one would you go to? The old rundown version or the new one thats faster, looks better, more interactive and renders on many other devices? I think the point here has been stated repeatedly, IP keeps up with the latest technology, if they didn't they wouldn't be as popular as they are. If people can't handle updating their forum, don't update it so often... skip a few versions at a time.
miraclesun Posted March 6, 2012 Posted March 6, 2012 RE: Updates What I don't like is people who completely dismiss updates, and for a long long time. People who just overlook the updates as if they're not important. Especially if they make the forum look 10x cleaner, have a bunch of fixes (esp when it's security issues / major bug fixes), cleaner control panels, among other things...Why ignore the update? If you're stuck on an old(er) version, it's also more likely that you won't receive technical support as well. Why not keep up with the times?! It's also as if you're shrugging off the hard work of the staff, who are designing/programming day and night to improve the service and consistently try to add new features that you don't have / may have asked for previously. For me, I update ASAP. //2cents
bfarber Posted March 6, 2012 Posted March 6, 2012 There is two sides to it really. From a skinner point of view, it is a disaster! because he/she will have to upgrade all of his/her skins. This could be very time consuming and pretty much fruitless as many customers would expect the upgraded version to be released free of charge. So the skinner would end up working hours for free. Skinners and modders will always have it harder, because you are directly producing works based on another software package (IP.Board in this case). Thus, any time the other software package changes, your work necessarily changes. But try to keep in mind that something like 99.9% of our customer base are *not* modders and skinners, and that is where this discussion stemmed from. We try to include separate tools for our resource developers to ease these pains (merge center, WebDAV template editing, IN_DEV mode for modders, etc.), although they will never be completely eliminated. RE: Updates What I don't like is people who completely dismiss updates, and for a long long time. People who just overlook the updates as if they're not important. Especially if they make the forum look 10x cleaner, have a bunch of fixes (esp when it's security issues / major bug fixes), cleaner control panels, among other things...Why ignore the update? If you're stuck on an old(er) version, it's also more likely that you won't receive technical support as well. Why not keep up with the times?! It's also as if you're shrugging off the hard work of the staff, who are designing/programming day and night to improve the service and consistently try to add new features that you don't have / may have asked for previously. For me, I update ASAP. //2cents Please do not feel obligated to upgrade simply because we have released a new version. Always do what is best for your site. That said, if you feel the update is worth while, we're glad you are enjoying the new releases. :)
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