Fixed Style? Please? That uses a Grid system for the CSS?

[Tigratrus]

I know many people think that fluid skins are "cool" but for design and layout purposes, they are generally a PITA (IMO). Will there be a fixed style? Puhlease?

And maybe have it use a modern CSS system like grid 960? Don't get me wrong, the default fluid style is quite good, but there are lots of little things in the CSS that would be much better if it were standardized. My wife Susan is actually the designer side of the house for our team, hopefully I can get her to login on this account to comment as she's unable to post her opinions under her own account (apparently mine is the "customer" account).

James
(of James and Susan)

[Ryan H.]

It is incredibly simple to change the skin wrapper to be fixed-width, if that's all you're trying to do. One-line-of-css simple.

[ehren.]

Generally any fluid layout can easily be converted to a fixed layout.

It's already a feature of the 3.2 skin:

#content, .main_width {

    margin: 0 auto;

    /* Uncomment for fixed */

    /*width: 980px;*/

    /* Fluid */

    width: 87% !important;

       min-width: 960px;

}

[Tigratrus]

I know that, that's not the point. ;)


I'm asking if there will be a style specifically designed to be fixed with things actually lining up on a modern grid system. There's a lot of little inconsistencies in the current CSS. It's a lot better than 3.14, but still far from than optimal. I LOVE 3.2, don't get me wrong... but it's so CLOSE to being on a grid. Frustrating to see. I'll see if I can get Susan to chime in, this is more her specialty than mine. :)


James
(of James and Susan)

[Royzee]

I think you are one of the exceptions (IMO), and most of us would have to modify the skins to make them fluid. Nothing looks worse than a forum—or any website for that matter—that is fixed width on the ever more popular wide screen monitor.

Nor do the look that great on a 1024x768 normal CRT monitor.

Again, just my opinion.

[Tigratrus]

Yeah, I know that changing it to fixed width is relatively simple. I was on a rant, and I guess I didn't make myself clear with Tigger.

It's more the idea of basing the overall layout of the site and all the other design elements on a fixed width - using a grid to determine placement and positioning is infinitely simpler when based on a fixed width - things line up...they make sense. When things don't make sense visually, it makes people uncomfortable - it creates a dissonance. For instance, take a look at the image below:



See all the vertical lines? Those represent the visual 'edges' of the many elements (just) at the top right corner of the site. See how adjusting a few things left or right by a few pixels would line things up better and create more visual harmony? That's the beauty of a grid - it doesn't force you to contain things solely within strict columns, but it surely does help to align the many necessary elements on a page making the visual communication more clear and less confusing.

It would be nice if it were set up from the get go on a fixed width grid which could be made fluid if desired.

Susan of James and Susan

[Darksbane0]

I'd have to see what it looked like lined up. How it is currently looks fine to me.

[Royzee]

Yes I agree that is looks fine as it is, and I see no point, nor visual harmony, in lining everything up. Especially invisible elements. And as I mentioned, fixed width looks terrible on a wide screen because you have a relatively narrow strip down the center with blank background on both sides.

Just my two cents.

[Tigratrus]

Well, if it were an option, I'd be able to show you! As it is, I'd have to rewrite half the CSS or spend all night pushing things around in Photoshop which isn't going to happen.

And just so I'm being clear - nobody's asking for it to be default. I'm asking that it be an option out of the box. Fixed width based on a grid OR fluid width. Some of us need fixed width for various reasons, not the least of which is branding. I think you'll find that well thought out layouts are frequently on a grid, and you don't really notice it because it just works. It doesn't mean that EVERYTHING is in boxes, or that it all lines up, just that there's a starting point for positioning elements on a page that makes sense.

And there's no reason if you have a wide screen that you have to maximize your browser window. 1024x768 is the default size to design to these days - nearly 25% of users have screens that are that size. If your screen is wider than that, you can always reduce the size of your browser and have something else open alongside. :logik:

Susan of James and Susan

[ehren.]

It's obviously important to have the edges (absolute left and right) of the design line up, and the skin already does that. But you need to remember forums are very dynamic and each page varies a lot in design and content. It would be almost stupid to try and get the notifications or messenger icon to line up with something below it.. same with the alignment of "Go to first unread post"..

As long as the extreme left and extreme right sides of the design line up, it's fine with me. I'm not sure how many people would honestly feel uncomfortable about slightly misaligned elements, especially when (I would imagine 99% of) users wouldn't even notice it themselves.

It is your opinion though (and everyone deserves their own), so if you feel it's worth the work, you'll have the option to change it on your own designs. Far too late to request such large changes for the default skin though.

[c u l8er]

I believe you have the 960 GS idea wrong. Its not about lining up small objects like buttons and text. The idea is to have a fixed layout that is 960 pixels wide. Then from here you can equally divide this number up and be able to style the large objects (like bodys of text, sidebar, ads, etc) accordingly.

[Rikki]

Before we switched 3.2 to fluid, it was developed with fixed width and a grid in mind. I think you're misunderstanding the extent to which a grid works though. Not every single element is supposed to line up - that'd be next to impossible, for a start.

The fixed width is an option in so much as we've commented the couple of places in the CSS that you need to change to make it fixed.

[Matt]

A note on lining things up to pixels - we generally don't worry about that because once you start translating the interface, those widths change.