Maybe disallow paid modifications under downloads?

[Nityananda]

Ya know I have just read through all this topic and its actually quite comical:

IPB Doesnt care about its modding community? - What a load of rubbish! I see mods, admin, CEO's etc constantly involved in the conversation about modifications. Since your comparing to vbulletin, in this respect they completely removed it from their main forums and none of the higher level staff are involved anymore. Agreed some of them used to be, however its not for the reason of them being ignored. They simple started the idea first and therefore more people are used to coding for it. To me it is really that simple. Yeah there are areas of organisation of the sections etc on here that would help, but I dont think the lack of interest from staff is the reason, simply the lack of being around for as long.

Coded Mods - Again, hilarious. Members moaning that devs shouldnt encode and that its wrong, devs moaning that they should because of piracy etc ... If you want to use a mod, use it, if you dont because its encoded then dont use it ... Am I missing something here? I to would rather they are not encoded, however I'm not gonna start going on about what someone else does free for my use, and I'm simply not going to buy something if I dont feel something is correct. Not go around moaning about it.... Hey I find it rediculous that I spend so much money on my operating system and yet I cant modify the whole of it to my liking .... Thats life.

[uberjon]

Not to mention at the same time, because my Applications are controlled, people can are safe knowing that the copy they downloaded is clean and free from malicious code.

I totally disagree with this.. By your applications being encoded, no-one else can see the source code. Who is to say, your 100% trust-able with files that cannot be read by the human eye? Not trying to be offensive.

Also, what happens to those who use your product, if you suddenly change your mind about even being a modder? The kill switch in the software, kicks in. (assuming you take your server offline)

Or, the 'what if' something happens to you?

edit:

Maybe, if IPS charged a fee for encoded files, and IPS encoded them on the modders behalf, so IPS could review the code. I believe that could be acceptable, although, I don't know if IPS would like it..

[.Ian]

I totally disagree with this.. By your applications being encoded, no-one else can see the source code. Who is to say, your 100% trust-able with files that cannot be read by the human eye? Not trying to be offensive.

Also, what happens to those who use your product, if you suddenly change your mind about even being a modder? The kill switch in the software, kicks in. (assuming you take your server offline)

Or, the 'what if' something happens to you?

Maybe you ought to read Anthony's posts before quoting part of them.

He only encodes a small fraction of the mod, whereas a couple of others encode everything - heck even for those who purchased unencoded versions.

He has also stated that if his server were offline then it would continue to run.

If he was run over by a bus, then it would probably die along with him (hoping it doesn't happen Anthony!) as nobody else would be allowed to continue it I guess.

I have no issue with how Anthony approaches the protection of his products - after all he spends a long time working on them.

[AnthonyKinson]

I cant speak for everyone, only myself, and measures are taken in my apps for any set of circumstances. If you have trust issues with an author you should do some research and ask around. Theres no answers to trust issues, they are personal issues, and they exsist in many software formats.

For me though, the fact i have many customers, the fact my apps have been going for years with many updates and no approval problems from IPS shoudl be enough trust.

As for code not being able to be read by the human eye, most OS files cannot be read by the human eye, the answer still remains though, if you dont like it dont use it, if you dont trust someone dont use it, your responsible for your own trust issues.

Fact is theres no ultimate solution, or we would all be using it, developers make choices based on what they think is best, if that includes encoding, then its nobodys elses buisness and you should just accept it or use a different application.

[Wolfie]

I find it sad that most people can't understand that problem also holds back IPS as whole. As many consider a forum product's mod / theme community an interracial part of the overall package that is forum software. Its part of the reason VB is /was so popular. They ran a great mod community.

Except piracy isn't as big a deal as everyone states. It's wrong, and I'd never do as such, but it affects maybe a small minority of the possible customers. There's no wide ranging conspiracy where everyone pirates it where available, the pirates are a far smaller group than the legitimate users. Don't ever punish legitimate customers for the sake of getting at pirates, it doesn't work. It's why the games industry has more pirates, because the prices keep rising and the industry keeps trying to limit and ripoff the people who actually pay for the things.

You both have a lot to learn. I'm not a developer by any means (although I am working on getting a painfully simple hook out in the next few days) but even as a prospective customer, I see and understand the points and views of the mod authors. With the unbelievable amount of piracy that goes on (and it's much greater than you seem to realize), obviously some wish to protect their work and as such their income. There are so many sites that offer hacks, serials, keygens, preloaders, full versions, cracks, etc for all sorts of different programs, media, platforms, etc, that it's harder to NOT find a product than it is to find it. For every product there is out there, you may stumble across maybe 10% of those that aren't somehow available in some pirated form. If you don't believe me, then go do searches for a product with the words torrent, warez, crackz, serialz, keygen, etc and tell me that you don't get a lot of hits.

@Blind Bandit
I believe the word you were looking for is "intregal", not "interracial"
intregal: Essential or necessary for completeness; constituent
interracial: Relating to, involving, or representing different races

Copyright law. My advice is to get their sites shut down. Send an email to the host, etc. Encoding punishes legitimate customers for the acts of a small minority. The rippers should also ideally be banned from IPB's site and what not. If they have user accounts here, I'd say report them as well.

If you believe that is the end all answer, then you are naive to the reality of the world we live in. Getting a site shut down is about as usual as being a single fighter, armed with only a BBgun, in a huge room filled with over 300 enemies that are armed with machine guns. Your odds of causing any sort of damage is slim to none. If anything, they'd exhaust you to death and then laugh about it afterward. For those hosting companies that would make the effort to shut down a site, I'm sure they will require more proof than simply saying, "He's providing my commercial product for free to others!" Not only that, but with that site down, there are still hundreds of others up and running and that same user can and will just put their site up somewhere else without breaking a sweat over it. That's for the hosting companies that will actually do something. This doesn't even take into consideration the sites that don't fear getting shut down because they're hosted in countries that don't give a crap.

As for reporting that member here, if IPS knew who the customer was (or customers were), don't you think that they'd revoke their access to the products? SOMEONE who has a legit copy of IPB is leaking it to the warez community. If IPS knew who it was, you can be certain that they'd cut off that persons access very quickly.

That's a rather egotistical response. Remember... in any form of commerce, the customer not developer/maker/publisher/seller is king.

Neither is king but at the same time, both are king. The customer is the king of their pile of cash and the seller is the king of their products. Customer can either choose to purchase a product or not from that other king. One makes the rules for their products and the other makes the rules for their purchases. If the rules don't mix well, then either one has to bend or no sale will happen. Simple enough. If you don't purchase the product, then you don't purchase it. You move on. Demanding that they change their rules is stupid though. You might comment on WHY you didn't make the purchase, but that's the extent of what you can do. You can't FORCE the seller to change their ways, because it's their right to make those conditions on the products. Don't like it? Not their problem.

[Blind Bandit]

I know I bowed but I need to make a point.

The customer most assuredly is not. I'd like to bring your attention to [url="http://forums.impulsedriven.com/338746/page/1/#2078596"]another quote[/url] from Brad Wardell. Anyway, I'm sure Anthony does value his customers - but a person having a fit about his choice to encode and refusing to buy his product isn't a customer now, are they? And need I remind you that a lot of us just make mods we think would be cool, and offer them up for others because we think others might benefit. You'll find that in these instances, the developer has a guide in their mind of how the product will work, and the opinion of even the customers is irrelevant to that.

This is heart of the issue. This is why IPB's mod community is still considered sub par by many. Or not an option at all. Diminishing the customer to this level is atrocious. Further not a good option in the long run in the long term. If someone worked for me and said this. I would fire them on the spot.

To every modder or theme make. If you truly think this. Its time to evaluate your reasons for modding. Because your no longer helping or supporting the community. If not for the customers sake for IPB. Because you can't care about customer and at the same time disregard his opinion utterly. Its clear you care about his business and the reputation he may give you but not the customer .

Also Wolfie just because I'm not brained washed into take everything the mod/ theme developers say as law. Doesn't mean I don't understand the issue.

Finally the warez / piracy issue will never go away. Everyone should understand that now. People will pirate and its up o the modders to focus on the good customers and not the pirates. Because you end up ignoring your customers and forcing ridcalous DRM on to them that will not stop any pirating

I would figure most would understand this. Seeing as its the times in which we live. Its a weak fall back argument and it holds no water. But then again I would also think we wouldn't need to have this discussion.

[Mark]

This is what bugs me about IPS. They are modding IPS products so I think its important for IPS to hold mod authors to a certain standards and actually take an interest in the modding community. I don't understand why IPS pretty much ignores its modding community. Its one of the few problems IPS has.

That's just not true. We have a resources area here with people dedicated to maintaining it, regular interaction with mod authors (including a specific forum for mod authors to converse with us) and a team of modders who work on popular addons who we provide even more support to.
I actually can't see how we could be more involved with the modding community.


What I actually said was that we don't like to dictate and tell our mod authors how they should conduct their business (particularly regarding controversial things like encoding), and this topic is pretty much QED of why.

For what it's worth, I personally disagree with encoding mods. But my solution is to just not use them. You're not going to change a mod author's mind on this, just as I'm sure the mod authors who agree with encoding won't change yours.

There will never be an end to this argument.