When will we see IPB3?

[Brett B]

The early previews are for people who pay $25 dollars every six months. If you want access to the early previews, then pay the $25 every six months. If you don't want to pay the money, then you wont have access to the previews. Fair enough, in my opinion.

[grippo]

That's not so much what I'm objecting to...if it's made clear from the outset that those with active support licences will gain extra previews or whatever, then that's cool. But it's more the way that perpetual licence users on these forums are constantly sidelined as a whole. There's zero acknowledgement of the fact that we run software that we've paid for...we're treated the same as posters who've never put their hands into their pockets.

To be frank, we're often treated worse than non-customers (just scroll through the forum and look how other users speak to perpetual licence holders), as if we're scum of the earth for not constantly renewing our support contracts, irrespective of whether we actually need them or not.

[ColdinCbus]

That's not so much what I'm objecting to...if it's made clear from the outset that those with active support licences will gain extra previews or whatever, then that's cool. But it's more the way that perpetual licence users on these forums are constantly sidelined as a whole. There's zero acknowledgement of the fact that we run software that we've paid for...we're treated the same as posters who've never put their hands into their pockets.

To be frank, we're often treated [i]worse[/i] than non-customers (just scroll through the forum and look how other users speak to perpetual licence holders), as if we're scum of the earth for not constantly renewing our support contracts, irrespective of whether we actually need them or not.

Could be that you pay $20 less a year for your support license, could be that you don't have to pay your support license to get the latest updates.

Could be jealousy or could be that regular license holder are tired of perpetual license holders complaining that they are getting ripped off when they actually are getting more value for their dollar.

[Leone Club]

I think that's our point though, while it doesn't show that we have the red bars under our names many of us are license holders. We simply don't have support options.

You folks were once customers.

[.Sephiroth.]

You folks were once customers.

Once?

In my eyes, Leone Club, If I still have access to upgrades, then I should not be thrown out as trash when it comes to recognition as a customer. Period. If we wasn't customers, we wouldn't even have download access to begin with.

Edit: Hear that, Ms. Lindy? May I have my recognition back without being asked to fill your companies pockets anymore? I seriously paid enough, and cannot even afford to renew at this time.

[Lindy]

Of course we appreciate your business. You purchased a perpetual license for the software and per those terms, you get lifetime software updates -- I personally think that's a great deal that many wish they had. :) Unfortunately, that does not mean we're able to offer anything and everything present and future as part of the perpetual license - I don't think that's a particularly reasonable expectation, to be honest. You made a one-time purchase and in return, next to lifetime license holders, you have the best deal we've ever offered.

Like many companies, we offer loyalty rewards of sorts. Those with active licenses (and in the case of perpetual licenses, those with active support) get perks like early previews and releases, access to the resource community, etc. They are incentives to continue a business relationship with clients and we most certainly didn't invent the concept. :)

[.Sephiroth.]

I quite agree.

I am a perpetual licence holder, but I don't have support at the moment because I don't require it. I probably will buy it for when I upgrade my board, but as there's no fixed release date, I don't see the point in buying support now and "wasting" a month or so of it whilst we wait for the final release.

It's obviously easier on the permissions for so-called "active" customers to have access to the preview, but I think the attitude of IPS in general towards perpetual licence holders who don't hold a current support licence is fairly weak. Would it hurt to have us in a perpetual group, as opposed to the ordinary members group, just to acknowledge the fact that we have bought the software? I only browse these forums when I need to because I don't feel like a valued customer at all by IPS, which is a tragic shame, considering that I love the software and have used it for years (2002-2005 for free, 2005-present paid for).

I don't think it's intentional by IPS - but maybe they don't realise how it makes perpetual customers feel when you're treated the same as someone who has just joined up to the site for a look than as a customer. I think the updates we've received about IPB 3.0 have been very interesting to read, but it is a bit of a smack in the face to find that after following the updates for the past 7 months, we're not even eligible to see a screenshot! :(

Still no perpetual license holder usergroup either? Makes us feel left out, when we're actually still customers.

[Y0Y0]

Hmmm I can see their point though, perhaps a group so they're recognised as customers also?.

[Draconator]

They are incentives to continue a business relationship with clients

<--- Using IPB/0.0.1.1.1 since 2002

Just sayin.

;)

And yes I forgot my old login information for my old Account.

[Draconator]

And there was a 3rd account that I forgot about.

I'm batting 1.000! :lol:

[Lindy]

There is a difference between license holder and an active customer. To be clear, I sincerely do not wish to convey that we do not appreciate the purchases that perpetual license holders have made, however, I'm struggling with the concept that a purchase made 3+ years ago entitles one to a lifetime of perks, benefits, special statuses and recognition. You do absolutely hold an indefinite product license and we will cheerfully honor that by providing you with patches, updates and upgrades. Please understand that does not, however, automatically provide you with "active customer" benefits.

Again, with no offense intended, the concept of providing added incentives to customers currently supporting your organization is not a new one. Frequent flier miles, cash back bonuses, returning lessee discounts, exclusive preview/events, etc. I'm terribly sorry that you don't feel you're getting the value from your former purchase, however, we are a recurring revenue based company. Without recurring revenue, we wouldn't be here to provide perpetual license holders with a lifetime of software updates. Such loyalty is obviously to be rewarded.

It's human nature to attempt extracting as much value as possible from one's purchase, however, I'm afraid current customer incentives must remain with current customers.

Thank you for understanding.

[ColdinCbus]

This is where IPS messed up. Anyone that has purchased software from IPS has an active license. If you have purchased a Lifetime, Perpetual or Standard license for IP.Board you are a license holder and can run the software on your site. That is what I think is confusing everyone because technically anyone that has purchased IP.Board from IPS is a customer and license holder.

Where they (IPS) messed up is by calling "support" a license and stating the customers group is for people that have active support licenses. In reality, it should be called a support contract so those in the customers group actually have an active support contract and are clients. The "customers" group should be called clients.

/me runs away before Management starts throwing things at me.

[.Sephiroth.]

This is where IPS messed up. Anyone that has purchased software from IPS has an active license. If you have purchased a Lifetime, Perpetual or Standard license for IP.Board you are a license holder and can run the software on your site. That is what I think is confusing everyone because technically anyone that has purchased IP.Board from IPS is a customer and license holder.

Where they (IPS) messed up is by calling "support" a license and stating the customers group is for people that have active support licenses. In reality, it should be called a support contract so those in the customers group actually have an active support contract and are clients. The "customers" group should be called clients.

/me runs away before Management starts throwing things at me.

Exactly. We're customers by simply having the active perpetual license. Merely shunning us by not allowing us to have our status be known like those that are support contract holders makes your company look bad.

[ColdinCbus]

Exactly. We're [b]customers[/b] by simply having the [color="red"][u][i][b]active[/b][/i][/u][/color] [b]perpetual [u][i]license[/i][/u][/b]. Merely shunning us by not allowing us to have our status be known like those that are support contract holders makes your company look bad.

So just adding a little pip indicating that you purchased the software by your name will make you happy? Keep in mind that won't give you access to the support forums as those are for the people that have support contracts.

[Keven Fox]

Plus give the group permissions, IPB 3.0 preview would be a perfect example.

[ColdinCbus]

Plus give the group permissions, IPB 3.0 preview would be a perfect example.

But you don't have a support contract and that is for clients not customers.

Note: that you will have access to the download-able version without a fee that us with expired support contracts on standard licenses will have to pay the renewal fee to access. You see, you do have special privileges, you just take them for granted.

[Brandon D]

Gonna have to side with IPS on this. I could see maybe a group for perpetual license holders (purely for the title, no special permissions), but support forums, resources, and previews should be reserved for those with active support contracts.

Honestly, if I didn't have active support contracts, then I wouldn't be complaining about what "Customers" are receiving. Perpetual license holders are getting what they paid for, and people with support contracts are getting what they paid for, and a lot of them have put forth a lot more money than perpetual license holders. Reverse positions for a moment - how do you think you would feel if you were an active customer and all of a sudden people who've paid sometimes hundreds less than you got access to some of the benefits you have?

Seriously you guys seem to be complaining a lot about missing out on a preview that you'll get to see shortly, little red icons under your name and peer-to-peer support that you can get on multiple other forums for free.

[grippo]

So just adding a little pip indicating that you purchased the software by your name will make you happy? Keep in mind that won't give you access to the support forums as those are for the people that have support contracts.

Yeah, it really would! It'd just be nice to be acknowledged on the forums as someone who's paid the money for the software. I've always held back from posting because in the past, I've seen people being dismissed or spoken to rudely (not by the Staff and not by all members, I stress) because people don't think that non-customers opinions are as valid - sometimes because they don't believe that they're a real customer of IPB. I can sort of see the logic there - if you've got a feature that you want installed in software that you've bought and someone who doesn't use it whinges on about how it's not applicable, that would get up your nose...

...but I'm getting off track!

I totally understand that IPS is a business and needs to function as such. I also appreciate that I was lucky to grab a perpetual licence when they were for sale, and that other users may be envious of that... But that's not really my fault! The software was on sale to everyone under those terms, and in another way, if there hadn't been people like me buying the perpetual licences, maybe IPB wouldn't have been able to grow as quickly as it has to its current success.

I'm not going to cry about not being able to see the full preview - if that's a perk of being an active licence holder, that's completely cool. I do think it's a bit of a shame that perpetuals don't even get to see a screenshot instead of the real site, as a follow up for customers to see what they'll be receiving...but whatever...I've waited this long, I can wait a bit longer! :D

I honestly can see where IPS are coming from and I'm not trying to be a jerk about this. I didn't say anything about not getting value for money with my perpetual licence - but it would be nice to be seen as a customer. I've paid money once - and I have your software installed, so it's highly likely that I'll be paying money in the future. It just seems that from everyone's tone that people are upset that we have perpetual licences, and aren't subscribed to the current system - but it's not our fault that we bought the package which was on offer at the time.

I would really appreciate just being acknowledged with a usergroup or usertext saying that I am a customer, with no other privileges attached (or even expected).

[.Sephiroth.]

So just adding a little pip indicating that you purchased the software by your name will make you happy? Keep in mind that won't give you access to the support forums as those are for the people that have support contracts.

It's just a statement saying IPS needs to support and honor their customers a bit more than they do now, considering they seem to be elitist only with those that pay semi-annualy for support. >_>'

Those in the customers usergroup are basically elitist users in my eyes, seeing as both the plus next to their name, and the multiple pip block they have just overshadows us normal users.

Edit: Double-post as I was replying.

how do you think you would feel if you were an active customer and all of a sudden people who've paid sometimes hundreds less than you got access to some of the benefits you have?

What I'm not trying to get is stuff these support contract users have, all I would want, as the next person said:

I would really appreciate just being acknowledged with a usergroup or usertext saying that I am a customer, with no other privileges attached (or even expected).

Just some recognition as a customer would be nice.

[ColdinCbus]

I can respect both of those views. Nice explanation of where you are coming from. Thanks.

[Lindy]

I honestly can see where IPS are coming from and I'm not trying to be a jerk about this. I didn't say anything about not getting value for money with my perpetual licence - but it would be nice to be seen as a [i]customer[/i]. I've paid money once - and I have your software installed, so it's highly likely that I'll be paying money in the future. It just seems that from everyone's tone that people are upset that we have perpetual licences, and aren't subscribed to the current system - but it's not our fault that we bought the package which was on offer at the time.

Thank you for the well constructed post. I don't believe anyone is genuinely upset that people have perpetual licenses. Based on overwhelming customer feedback in the past, I believe the perceived discontent stems from the fact that they believe they are funding product upgrades that you (collectively) get for free, indefinitely, yet you're (again, collectively) generally the first to loudly complain when a new offering (resource site, preview, customer forum, etc.) is offered as a loyalty reward to them. It does get a bit tiring for all, I'm sure. It's quite true that it's not your fault -- to the contrary, you're quite lucky to have that package; I'm sure everyone would agree. At the same time, it needs to be accepted that the perpetual license was a past offering. Apart from perks included as an active support customer, there will be no new or special offerings to the perpetual license on its own.

As for status, I do understand and appreciate the desire to be publicly recognized. Unfortunately, it's impractical to recognize every past purchase with a special status -- much like it's unreasonable to expect Apple to create a usergroup on their forums for me because I purchased an iPod 4yrs ago. Yes, I made a purchase from Apple, but I would consider myself an iPod user more so than an active Apple customer. I have no other expectations from Apple as I get/got what I paid for; if I wanted more, I would rightfully pay for more, as with anything else in life.

It's not my intent to seem dismissive. I would simply like expired perpetual users to recognize that we appreciate their past business and they're receiving what they originally paid for: a world-class product with perpetual updates. For $.08/day, you can have that and technical support (if needed), the active customer status, resource access, early previews/releases and all other active customer benefits. You are most certainly welcome to not pay the renewal fee, just as we are entitled to reward those that do with loyalty incentives.

[.Sephiroth.]

Then please drop the Customers usergroup, as that is elitism in itself, and has divided the community in two.

[sPiDeRz]

Then please drop the Customers usergroup, as that is elitism in itself, and has divided the community in two.

Why?
The customer user groups divides those with a Current legal licensed IP.Boards then those with old or nulled illegal IP.Boards.


Anyways im waiting expectantly for a preview of IP.Board 3 cant wait.

[Olivier Turbis]

Maybe what is bugging you is the "Customer" word. Let's change that to "+Active support". :rolleyes:

[Sparkal]

Now as a person whom is a perpetual license holder who has hardly ever spoken up against IPB. I did start out with IPB as my webhost so I had their hosted version of IPB until I decided to upgrade to their yearly they had at the time and then I did upgrade it to perpetual with the skin of my teeth.

What I do see with this thread is how the people who are in the customer's group are looking down on us Perpetual license holders. What is being said is being true. There is a reason why I use IPB. I like it and I feel that it is far better to use than any free forum software out there. I have tried a lot of them that are out there, but they are nothing compared to what IPB can do.

As for me not paying for support. There is a reason that I have not purchased it. Money has been tight and I am barely able to pay for my own webhosting, but I manage. I've had friends offering to help me pay for the support but I refuse to take money from them as I rather do everything myself. As soon as I get some money, I do hope to either get another license or pay for support.