Lost Sale - Constructive Criticism

Dmacleo · September 11, 2011

without buying it to see how is a new customer supposed to know how the support tickets system really works? they are not allowed to see forums so they are going on faith.

NenaDice · September 11, 2011

without buying it to see how is a new customer supposed to know how the support tickets system really works? they are not allowed to see forums so they are going on faith.

Yes, but the OP was talking about the "post slamming by staff and not good support " that he saw in the forums according to him and not the Ticket System.

Benny. · September 11, 2011

perhaps a few screen shots of tickets in progress,

im sure potential customers, would snap up a ips package, all they will see is a fantastic ips support team resolving issue after issue.

.Ian · September 11, 2011

without buying it to see how is a new customer supposed to know how the support tickets system really works? they are not allowed to see forums so they are going on faith.

To be honest if support was dire a) there would not be a healthy forum (visible forums) and b) people would be talking about it on other sites and c) there would be a large third party support/mod site.

I judged my purchase on the response that I received from pre-sales questions and from using the trial software.

Of course one could set up a site for $4.99 (I think that is still available) and see the various forums for a month. (or $9.99 if not).

Clickfinity · September 11, 2011

The point is that the ticket system (great as it is) is invisible to anyone who isn't a licensed customer.

The only thing a potential customer can go on is what they see in the forums, and - no disrespect to the IPS staff - there are often cases where the only visible support is pier-to-pier - and even cases where no support is forthcoming at all; and there's nothing like an unresponded support request for giving the wrong impression.

This is why I advised the possible name change above; so the impression of the support FORUM is as a general (basic) support point and not a primary one.

Potential new customers need to be able to easily understand that the TICKET SYSTEM is the primary support system, and not the forums.

I don't think the support forums work anywhere near as well as the ticket system does; sure some people get an answer, but it isn't common to find deeply technical help offered there by the staff - most all of that is done behind closed doors in the TICKET system.

I can understand why there is an open support forum - pier-to-pier works for the small stuff and takes the load off the IPS staff, especially at such times as new releases where they're busy dealing with upgrade issues etc. - but there needs to be a clear distinction that it is not primary, and that a better, deeper, one-to-one proper technical support system exists via tickets.

That's why I proposed adding something to the support forum description - maybe even in bold - to emphasise that this support forum is secondary and that the ticket system exists and is the primary support route for issues that are causing direct problems with your forums.

Just my 2p worth, from what I've observed and experienced as a customer.

BTW my own experience of the ticket system mirrors other customers; helpful, responsive, and comprehensive - and definitely worth the license investment ... :grin:

Cheers,
Shaun :D

Clickfinity · September 11, 2011

*Salvo* · September 11, 2011

Why is so difficult to understand that sometime the help we need is not so urgent to open a ticket, but just a requirement that help us to have a more friendly usability of the forum? I can feel stupid to waste the time of the forum's staff for problems like this (that are not problems), or other minor requests that never had BTW the attention of anyone of the staff
I've left a free software even if the support was fast as the light (where some user here like me were in the staff), to get a paid software, convinced that a paid plan means a professional assistance but not only via ticket system.
IPS shouldn't base the main luck on the free support of the hook coders, even if the coders mainly are extra paid-per-performance people (and I understand why, almost always).

Charles · September 11, 2011

As I said, the original post could not have been talking about the support forums as non-customers cannot read topics in the support forums at all so you guys are talking about something entirely different :)

Aisha · September 11, 2011

As I said, the original post could not have been talking about the support forums as non-customers cannot read topics in the support forums at all so you guys are talking about something entirely different :smile:

That doesn't make it not true.

Sire · September 11, 2011

As I said, the original post could not have been talking about the support forums as non-customers cannot read topics in the support forums at all so you guys are talking about something entirely different :smile:

What could he be referring to do you think?

Charles · September 11, 2011

What could he be referring to do you think?

He has not replied to this topic nor the PM I sent him so I'm afraid I do not know.

• Jay • · September 11, 2011

It's easy to make an assumption, when seeing unanswered questions such as these, that there isn't a full support system in place.

Several of those were more in line with modification/skin edits, and this one...

http://community.inv...-template-vars/

was a tip, not a request of any kind.

All I get from your list of topics is that perhaps the staff should be more proactive on moving modification/skinning related questions to the appropriate forum.

*Salvo* · September 11, 2011

He has not replied to this topic nor the PM I sent him so I'm afraid I do not know.

Do we represent the 'already customers' for you and this is enough? I really don't understand...please, let me understand in your personal hierarchy the first are the future potential customers, and then the people who already paid? It isn't a criticism, it's just to understand. Always because the CEO pms to non-already-member, but customers are....what exactly?

so you guys are talking about something entirely different :smile:

I'm 44 years old..not a guy, unfortunately.

• Jay • · September 11, 2011

I'm 44 years old..not a guy, unfortunately.

44 years old, assuming male... that's textbook "guy".

*Salvo* · September 11, 2011

Several of those were more in line with modification/skin edits, and this one...

was a tip, not a request of any kind.

All I get from your list of topics is that perhaps the staff should be more proactive on moving modification/skinning related questions to the appropriate forum.

Thanks for the clarification, Jay, I'm italian. Unfortunately many language strings in my brain are neuron-less driven.
BTW bear in mind that people always ask for stuffs that are regarding the software, and not how to cook onions without smelling like that.
CycleChat linked a lot of those, so it can be a wise alarm of a careless service. Just my 2 cents..

*Salvo* · September 11, 2011

Last but not least we all love IPS, that's why we write...

Charles · September 11, 2011

Salvo: "you guys" is an informal figure of speech in English :)

Andy Rixon · September 12, 2011

I don't see why this has turned into a big discussion, the way I see it is the official method of support is through a ticket where you can give in more detail your issue and give any private information without a worry.

The support forums are there so that both staff and customers of IPS can help other members of this community.

This is how I have always seen it, and as long as I'm a customer of IPS, will always see it.

Now, lets give the OP the chance to read and then reply approriately.

bfarber · September 12, 2011

*Salvo* - whether the issue is "important enough" for a ticket or not, you are paying for official support and are completely entitled to use it. We can't help with customizing the software, but if you want an answer to a question, please don't be afraid to submit a ticket. We have no problem answering "little questions" (in fact, if often gives the support guys a break from answering big technically-involved issues!).

*Salvo* · September 12, 2011

This is nice, bfarber, and I think is also the best way to speak with customers.
It's difficult by the way sometime, to distinguish a requirement made for a specific need, without thinking that it's a custom request.
View new content links, why they doesnt take me to first unread post?
Is it a required help for customizing the software or...what?
Smiley/emoticon set on more rows:
Do you consider it as a custom request or a simple clarification on the code function?
The previous way to see the album card in the gallery
Is it a request for a custom action, or a rollback to the previous version, in both cases a custom request?
It's just a part of the things that I consider a nice value add if one like me receives an answer (even if not a solution), but the total missing presence is..disappointing. Nor I can open a ticket for this, my guess.

Lindy · September 13, 2011

Please keep in mind that a good number of requests beyond "how do I" questions cannot be addressed via the forums as techs often require being able to see/diagnose/access the issue first-hand. The forums are provided as a convenient extra resource, but shouldn't be relied upon for sole make-or-break support.

With that said, we agree a "presence" is lacking and will ramp up resources devoted to that section. I'll also make it clearer what the forums are for.

Thanks for your feedback. :)

connorhawke · September 14, 2011

Out of interest, what do you wish ipb had by default?

Off of the top of my head and via a quick glance at vB's Admin CP:

Post Edit History
Forum Sidebar/Blocks
Global Ignore
Send Email to Users --> Include users that have declined admin emails?
Send Email to Users --> (many more options in general than IPB's stock Bulk Email feature)
Threaded/Hybrid Mode
Welcome Email
Welcome Private Message
FAQ Manager
Notices Manager
Announcement Manager
... some others

Here are some features that vB has and IPB used to have but were removed by IPB 3.2.x. Some I care less about than others:
Thread Ratings in thread listings
ability to have remote non-Gravatar avatars
Avatar Galleries
Post Icons
Topic Descriptions

With all of this being said, vB also lacks (by default) some very useful features that IPB has (by default), and given current feature sets and pricing schemes, IPB is currently the better option in my book.

AndyF · September 14, 2011

The 'send emails to those who have declined' was removed from IPB to comply with spam regulation I believe. Ultimately if a member asks not to be emailed then the administrator should respect their choice even if it means said member misses some important information. Sending mail to those who have declined it is a good way (imo) to get a server blacklisted for spam.

EDIT... Welcome email / pm / topic is available as free application in the Marketplace here for those who require it.

Aisha · September 14, 2011

Here, let me give you IPS's response to all of these in the past.

Off of the top of my head and via a quick glance at vB's Admin CP:

Post Edit History - Will take up too much space in the database

Forum Sidebar/Blocks - Will add to a future version

Global Ignore - You can ignore posts, signatures, and PMs. What else is there?

Send Email to Users --> Include users that have declined admin emails? - Andy covered it

Send Email to Users --> (many more options in general than IPB's stock Bulk Email feature) - Like what exactly?

Threaded/Hybrid Mode - Too old. Grow up.

Welcome Email - There's a hook for that.

Welcome Private Message - There's a hook for that.

FAQ Manager - You can use the help system.

Notices Manager - We have a notification system.

Announcement Manager - We have that.

... some others

Here are some features that vB has and IPB used to have but were removed by IPB 3.2.x. Some I care less about than others:

Thread Ratings in thread listings

ability to have remote non-Gravatar avatars

Avatar Galleries

Post Icons

Topic Descriptions

Here are some features that vB has and IPB used to have but were removed by IPB 3.2.x. Some I care less about than others:

Thread Ratings in thread listings - You can add those back

ability to have remote non-Gravatar avatars - Security issues

Avatar Galleries - idk

Post Icons - Clutter

Topic Descriptions - We have tags now

With all of this being said, vB also lacks (by default) some very useful features that IPB has (by default), and given current feature sets and pricing schemes, IPB is currently the better option in my book.

bfarber · September 14, 2011

Global Ignore

Global ignore of what exactly? If you are talking about globally ignoring a user, why not just ban them or delete them? Surely if every single user on a site is ignoring a particular member, that member has no business continuing to visit the site?

Send Email to Users --> Include users that have declined admin emails?

We used to have - until it got shared servers running IPB blacklisted because administrators felt they should email every single user on the board regardless of whether they wanted to receive the email or not. Put it this way - if you join a site and choose not to receive emails, and they email you anyways...don't you call that spam? We know first hand the effect this has, given that we host sites running IP.Board. Some of our shared servers got routinely blacklisted (the entire server, not just the one site) on spam blacklists because one admin of one site on the server ignored all of their user preferences.

Threaded/Hybrid Mode

Used to have - it's an antiquated concept that has almost no use today. Very few people used it in reality. Having an option that no one uses is rather pointless.

FAQ Manager

We have this - we call them help files.

Announcement Manager

We have announcements too, they're just accessed from the front end instead of the ACP.

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Lost Sale - Constructive Criticism

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