I would love to have a soft-delete feature

[Firewater]

http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/forum/128

whirlpool use this type of method.

[Tanax]

We were talking about this yesterday - can you guys clarify what a "soft delete" function would do exactly, that isn't accomplished by simply unapproving a post? :unsure: I gather it would be styled slightly differently, but that's about it?

I think you can view it like that.
The good thing about having seperate systems though is that if you have a topic and you want to delete a post from the topic, but not really REMOVE it entirely from the database, it's perfect to have a soft delete which basically would only make it invisible to those who do not have moderating powers.

Another thing is that if you use the unapprove method and unapprove a post that should be deleted, then several members who are currently in moderating cue comes and posts, and then several regular members, you would have no way of seperating those posts who you set to unapproved because you wanted to delete them from the thread, and those posts who really are unapproved.

Soft Delete provides a way for the post to remain "in existence" but still allow the original poster to delete the post on their own.

Mods can still see the post, but members just see a reason for its removal.

Currently with IPB, if a member deletion their own post (and no "trash can" is setup) the post is just gone.

There was a mod in vB which would allow a PM to be sent automatically to the user if the user's post(wheather it was a post or a thread) had been deleted or edited. Closed would obviously only be for threads. But in that PM the user was notified of the reason. That would be great to have built-in if IPB implements this.

Although you can set deletion notices to be seen by regular members, I think most only have it set up so only moderators see the deletion notices. The rest don't even know its there :)

Deletion notices could be an option in ACP to let members view them. Read my suggestions further down in this post.

But the member still has to be allowed to "hard delete" their post. A copy is not kept for moderators.

Personally I would never allow users to hard delete their own posts. Or well, personally I wouldn't even let them use any kind of deletion of their own posts - but CERTAINLY not hard delete. But that's just me I guess. Obviously this would be an option in the ACP since we all have different needs.

Hey Collin, not sure if that is a question or a point you are making :D

I can only speak from experience from my site and several others I have helped on.

I have only ever seen the system used as:

Only admin (and sometimes) moderators can hard delete all others can only soft delete

Only admins and moderators can view delete notices and restore soft deletes

So the way we have it set a user can delete their post and even their thread, however it is only a soft delete. However for all intents and purposes it is a hard delete to them as they can't see it or the notice.

I think the following settings in each usergroup would cut it:

- Can (not/soft/hard/either) delete own posts

- Can (not/soft/hard/either) delete others posts

- Can (not/soft/hard/either) delete own threads

- Can (not/soft/hard/either) delete others threads

- Can view soft delete notices

FWIW, when a post/thread is soft deleted, its simply marked as such. If the user has permissions to view, the thread/post is included with the result set otherwise it isn't. While processing the result set for view, vB just uses a different template for that row though it could easily be done with conditionals too.

A permissionset like that is great! I would however want to add a few things.

There should be an option in ACP where the admin can allow users to view deleted posts. However there should be several kinds of options for this option.
So my complete list of permissions is as following:

- Can (not/soft/hard) delete own posts
Chosing hard would obviously also let the user soft delete since it's superior. I don't see the benifit of having an option of "both" and then have so that if only hard is chosen the user is limited to hard deleting and cannot soft delete. That would seem kind of flawed to me.
- Can (not/soft/hard) delete others posts
- Can (not/soft/hard) delete own threads
- Can (not/soft/hard) delete others threads
- Can view soft deleted content
This should be a dropdown choice of options.
1. Can see that deleted content is present but not see the actual content(they would basically just see that there is a deleted post/thread present)
2. Can see that deleted content is present and its deletion notice but not see the actual content
3. Can see that deleted content is present and view its content via the expand AJAX call as explained earlier but not see topic replies in a deleted thread
4. Can see all deleted content

Now there's a few things here that needs to be sorted though.
If a moderator soft deletes an entire thread, those who have #3 will be able to enter the deleted thread and view the first post. However, I suggest that the rest of the thread remains invisible for those without moderating power in the forum where the thread was deleted.

This is because the moderator obviously chose to delete the ENTIRE thread. I think that a user who have access to view deleted content should only be able to view the original post but not the replies. Otherwise the moderator would have simply just deleted the seperate posts (which the user who have permission to view deleted content will be able to see if the user navigates to that thread).


Also, hard deleted content would end up like regular in the trashcan.
Just my suggestions!

[Collin1000]

Personally I would never allow users to hard delete their own posts. Or well, personally I wouldn't even let them user any kind of deletion of their own posts - but CERTAINLY not hard delete. But that's just me I guess. Obviously this would be an option in the ACP since we all have different needs.

I think my quote got taken out of context.

Someone said that "deleation notices" serve the same as a "reason for delete" in a soft delete feature.

I was saying that, in order to allow a member to use the deleation notices, they must hard delete, its gone forever, removed from the database. With a soft delete, a member can "delete" their post, but a copy is still kept for the moderators.

[Matt]

But everyone can see the compressed post saying "This post has been deleted"? Or would normal members not see the post at all

[Wolfie]

But everyone can see the compressed post saying "This post has been deleted"? Or would normal members not see the post at all

From what I'm understanding, it would be a per group (or per forum) setting as to who can see what. So an admin could set up a forum to show the "post deleted" message to everyone or only moderators.

[Steve H]

Personally I wouldn't want to see this function replacing the existing Trashcan/Unapproved Posts.

The trashcan is used exclusively on our board for any deleted posts. Nothing is ever removed completely.

The unapproved post allows for admins to make comments in the thread without them being visible to the general user. Unless something like this was added to the existing thread setup I don't see why soft delete would be an improvement.

If it was an addition fair enough but removing either of the others entirely would be a backwards move.

[Wolfie]

Personally I wouldn't want to see this function replacing the existing Trashcan/Unapproved Posts.

The trashcan is used exclusively on our board for any deleted posts. Nothing is ever removed completely.

The unapproved post allows for admins to make comments in the thread without them being visible to the general user. Unless something like this was added to the existing thread setup I don't see why soft delete would be an improvement.

If it was an addition fair enough but removing either of the others entirely would be a backwards move.

Here's my understanding of things...

Posts would have different status levels
ModQ: Pending approval by a moderator before it goes public (aka Unapproved)
Public: Can be seen by all (all who have the right permissions to view posts that is) (aka Approved)
Soft Del: Deleted from the thread but the post is still there (sort of like a ModQ, but at this status, the public could see a message the say that there was a post there that is now deleted)
Hard Del: Trash Can (or deleted perm, depending on the board's setup)

I would like such an arrangement if there's an easy way to filter messages to either show/hide the different messages. Like if I want to view a message as the public would see it (ie, hide ModQ'd messages and only show 'place holders' for SoftDel messages if the public would see them) or if I want to view only posts that are ModQ or only SoftDel posts.

Would also be nice to have a special function available only in the TrashCan forum, where a post can be undeleted and it would get properly restored to its original position inside of a thread.

[Collin1000]

Correct. The difference, in essence, between "Unapproved" and "Soft Delete" is:

1) Members can soft-delete their own posts.
2) "Soft Delete" will not show an annoying counter on the board index that it needs to be approved.

[b0x]

Soft-delete sounds like a pretty nifty feature!

[TGSAion]

But everyone can see the compressed post saying "This post has been deleted"? Or would normal members not see the post at all

I make use of a permission that hides the message from 'normal' users. Moderators and Administrators can see it. For the normal users, it is like the post is not even there. They see no indicator a post was ever there. Also, when a user gets presented with the option to delete a post they've made, they don't see an option to hard or soft delete, they just see "delete". As far as they know, the post is gone.

On the forum index where posts are listed, any thread with 'soft' deleted posts present are indicated with an icon. Mousing over the icon tells how many soft-deleted posts are within. A cool feature would be being able to click the icon and see the thread in its "unedited" state so you can open it with all soft-deleted posts already expanded out into view. Or maybe it could take you to a thread summary that shows who deleted what posts and at what time. A mini topic-specific moderation log, if you will, with all the deletion times and delete-reason notes in a quick summary.

Soft-deleting topics behave in a similar way.



The text formatting allows for quick identification of which threads are soft-deleted and out of sight for normal users, with links to quickly go in and manage the threads. The deletion note for the thread is also visible from the index.

I know I'm describing another product's approach to this idea in a detailed fashion, but it is not me trying to say "this is the correct way to do it, copy it now." rather, I want a clear vision of the functionality given, so that a possibly superior method/approach can be formed from it.

[Wolfie]

[Bryan Sammers]

Yes, that's great news.

[Wolfie]

Wanted to make sure that if someone isn't paying attention to the Dev Updates, that they will find it in this thread. :)

[Collin1000]

Woo!