Management Charles Posted July 22, 2009 Management Posted July 22, 2009 [quote name='AtariAge' date='22 July 2009 - 05:48 PM' timestamp='1248299326' post='1831089'] I wholeheartedly agree--the main thing will be educating admins so they are aware of the feature so they'll go and turn it on. :) ..Al It will be listed as a core feature on our web site soon and also will show, quite prominently, in the client area. It's in everyone's best interest to encourage use of course :)
stoo2000 Posted July 22, 2009 Posted July 22, 2009 So just to make it clear, if I'm a Perpetual Customer and I'm payiong $30/year (another email address not this one). I won't be able to use this system?
Management Charles Posted July 22, 2009 Management Posted July 22, 2009 Because the new Standard license and its renewals every 6 months are setup for not only support but also enhanced services you would need to switch to the new license type if you wanted to use this service. This will also apply to future hosted services that enhance IPB and our other products.
CalendarOfUpdates Posted July 22, 2009 Posted July 22, 2009 I wish you good luck. I understand your reasoning on the licensing for subscribing to the service. I have a couple questions though: 1 - Can the life-ers and perpetual license holders submit to the database? The community might benefit from that. Along those same lines will the subscribers that let their license expire still be able to submit? 2 - Will the check fail gracefully? This will affect those that have subscribed to the service and let their license expire. Those are the two biggest issues we deal with on our block lists... well that and when we upset someone and the try to take down the file servers to prevent anyone from getting the updated database.
uberjon Posted July 22, 2009 Posted July 22, 2009 great idea!! there has been for quite a while things such as "stopforumspam" but without a true "backing/support" of a forum software officially it makes its use less beneficial... this should end up a highly beneficial feature! brilliant idea! i have hinted before on other forum softwares support forums about "making an official feature" for this.. to no avail :x
Will Munny Posted July 22, 2009 Posted July 22, 2009 [quote name='Charles' date='22 July 2009 - 09:26 PM' timestamp='1248297994' post='1831063'] We are not taking anything away from Perpetual or Lifetime license holders and are keeping our promises to them as they were made at purchase time. That argument is on pretty shaky ground. You might, in that case, start charging extra for FURLs, AJAX skins, or any other progression in the software... as far as I'm concerned, my license entitles me to use IPB and it's features in all future versions, forever... You're moving the goal posts in order to sheppard legacy customers into your newer pricing bracket... ... and yes, I do pay my annual support fee already.
teraßyte Posted July 22, 2009 Posted July 22, 2009 [quote name='CalendarOfUpdates' date='23 July 2009 - 12:12 AM' timestamp='1248300770' post='1831112'][...] 2 - Will the check fail gracefully? This will affect those that have subscribed to the service and let their license expire. [...] Check the screenshot posted in the announcement and you'll see everything you need ;)
Energizer Posted July 22, 2009 Posted July 22, 2009 [quote name='Patrick Shaw' date='22 July 2009 - 11:24 PM' timestamp='1248301472' post='1831118'] That argument is on pretty shaky ground. You might, in that case, start charging extra for FURLs, AJAX skins, or any other progression in the software... as far as I'm concerned, my license entitles me to use IPB and it's features in all future versions, forever... You're moving the goal posts in order to sheppard legacy customers into your newer pricing bracket... ... and yes, I do pay my annual support fee already. I also address these concerns and I see all this very critical!
Ryan H. Posted July 22, 2009 Posted July 22, 2009 [quote name='Patrick Shaw' date='22 July 2009 - 06:24 PM' timestamp='1248301472' post='1831118'] That argument is on pretty shaky ground. You might, in that case, start charging extra for FURLs, AJAX skins, or any other progression in the software... as far as I'm concerned, my license entitles me to use IPB and it's features in all future versions, forever... You're moving the goal posts in order to sheppard legacy customers into your newer pricing bracket... ... and yes, I do pay my annual support fee already. I don't have a perpetual license, but I also agree with this.
Michael Posted July 22, 2009 Posted July 22, 2009 [quote name='Patrick Shaw' date='22 July 2009 - 06:24 PM' timestamp='1248301472' post='1831118'] That argument is on pretty shaky ground. You might, in that case, start charging extra for FURLs, AJAX skins, or any other progression in the software... as far as I'm concerned, my license entitles me to use IPB and it's features in all future versions, forever... You're moving the goal posts in order to sheppard legacy customers into your newer pricing bracket... ... and yes, I do pay my annual support fee already. There's a difference between these features of the software you mentioned and this new service: those don't require IPS to have the additional expense of running a new server to store this central repository. If IPS has to be the ones to build and maintain this system, and pay for anything involved in keeping it running, then it makes sense that only those who are still actually regular paying customers get access to that.
Will Munny Posted July 22, 2009 Posted July 22, 2009 [quote name='Patrick Shaw' date='22 July 2009 - 10:24 PM' timestamp='1248301472' post='1831118'] I do pay my annual support fee already. [quote name='Μichael' date='22 July 2009 - 11:17 PM' timestamp='1248304669' post='1831144'] it makes sense that only those who are still actually regular paying customers get access to that.
Management Lindy Posted July 22, 2009 Management Posted July 22, 2009 I fear you may be making an apples and oranges comparison, but allow me to note that this is a service -- a hosted service which incurs ongoing, real costs. It is not a software feature such as the FURLs. Naturally, we've made a commitment to all lifetime and perpetual license holders and we're very pleased to honor that commitment. We've never held back built-in features, nor do we intend to. You've received all updates as promised and will continue to do so. Unfortunately, we're not able to offer everything we do or will do as part of that initial license purchase as I'm sure you can understand and appreciate. We're certainly not trying to force people away from lifetime and perpetual licenses - they were both fantastic license offerings and you're free to enjoy the benefits for as long as you'd like. At the same time, it's worth noting that they are indeed former licenses that are no longer offered. While the benefits will remain the same as at time of purchase, we will not be adding anything to them, moving forward.
Mark H. Posted July 22, 2009 Posted July 22, 2009 Very much looking forward to this new service. Thanks, IPS. Good job at being proactive against spammers.
Bono Posted July 22, 2009 Posted July 22, 2009 [quote name='Charles' date='22 July 2009 - 11:53 PM' timestamp='1248299638' post='1831095'] It will be listed as a core feature on our web site soon and also will show, quite prominently, in the client area. It's in everyone's best interest to encourage use of course :) Cool I hope you will host this project on fast enough server from start :) And one question what happens if server is not reachable, will be users still be able to register? I used so far SpamBot search tool and only one or two spammers get in per month. And because I care about performance I hosted that tool myself. :)http://www.h3s.org/anti_spam/?p=view
Management Charles Posted July 22, 2009 Management Posted July 22, 2009 [quote name='Bono' date='22 July 2009 - 07:48 PM' timestamp='1248306533' post='1831164'] Cool I hope you will host this project on fast enough server from start :) And one question what happens if server is not reachable, will be users still be able to register? I used so far SpamBot search tool and only one or two spammers get in per month. And because I care about performance I hosted that tool myself. :) http://www.h3s.org/anti_spam/?p=view If you check out the announcement and see the screen shot you will note we have a time out setting for just that purpose.
Bono Posted July 22, 2009 Posted July 22, 2009 [quote name='Charles' date='23 July 2009 - 01:50 AM' timestamp='1248306635' post='1831166'] If you check out the announcement and see the screen shot you will note we have a time out setting for just that purpose. Thanks I missed that, so everything is covered then.
Michael Posted July 23, 2009 Posted July 23, 2009 @Patrick Shaw The key word in my statement is 'regular' paying customers. Perpetual or Lifetime licenses aren't offered anymore, and haven't been in years; they're not the norm anymore. IPS has done more than most companies would with such customers. As stated, they're not taking anything away from customers with these licenses, your forums will continue to operate just as they do today. They're just offering something completely new and only giving it to the folks who use the only licenses they offer now, I don't think that's such a terrible thing. People who own Perpetual or Lifetime licenses (of which I am also one) have a pretty good thing that a lot of others wish they could get, it's kind of greedy to want even more than the benefits you already get IMO.
Wolfie Posted July 23, 2009 Posted July 23, 2009 I just believe that if someone have +Active Customer status because of an IP.Board license, then that should qualify them for this feature. After all, if a Perp license holder pays the $30 for a year of service, then they are a current customer. The Lifetime holders are always current. Now, if you want to say that Standard license holders get it for free while their license is active and then charge (say $10/year) for Perp/Lifetime license holders to obtain the service, I could go with that. But to make an announcement that it's for those with active IP.Board licenses, then to turn around and say "active" doesn't include lifetime/perp license holders, that's just shameful. Should have just said that it's free to those with an active Standard IP.Board License. I'm juggling my licenses around anyway and plan to make use of the added feature on the board that currently has the lifetime license (but will swap that with the other board license). Just would have been nice to have it for both boards. Question though, once someone has the key to use the function, does it only work while their license is active, or is it only required to be active when they put the key in but remains in effect from then on?
Energizer Posted July 23, 2009 Posted July 23, 2009 [quote name='Μichael' date='23 July 2009 - 01:10 AM' timestamp='1248307849' post='1831176'] @Patrick Shaw The key word in my statement is 'regular' paying customers. Perpetual or Lifetime licenses aren't offered anymore, and haven't been in years; they're not the norm anymore. IPS has done more than most companies would with such customers. As stated, they're not taking anything away from customers with these licenses, your forums will continue to operate just as they do today. They're just offering something completely new and only giving it to the folks who use the only licenses they offer now, I don't think that's such a terrible thing. People who own Perpetual or Lifetime licenses (of which I am also one) have a pretty good thing that a lot of others wish they could get, it's kind of greedy to want even more than the benefits you already get IMO.That is the problem. Who decides which performance is within the license and what is outside? You can do what they want and more and more services than do non-license sell. Belief that customers really buy two licenses? A lifetime license and a Prepertual Lizenz for the same Product just so they have no disadvantages compared to the normal license? That you can not really be serious!
Management Charles Posted July 23, 2009 Management Posted July 23, 2009 I personally think it is quite simple. We promised Perpetual and Lifetime license holders access to IPB downloads and technical support. This is a new service that did not even exist back then and is part of our new services plan that is included in the 6-month renewal fees. We have plenty more services planned in the future that will be the same sort of thing. They are new services - not technical support. We are keeping our promise to Perpetual and Lifetime license holders plus keeping our promise to the new license holders that their license will include more services. We have to do what we said we would do. We are even being as nice as we can with the way we are offering those license holders to switch to the Standard license. Lifetime people don't have to pay for 6 months and Perpetual people don't have to pay until their support would have normally expired. Of course, in the end, you don't have to switch too :)
Will Munny Posted July 23, 2009 Posted July 23, 2009 [quote name='Μichael' date='23 July 2009 - 12:10 AM' timestamp='1248307849' post='1831176'] @Patrick Shaw The key word in my statement is 'regular' paying customers. And the key point I am making is that I'm already a 'regular' paying customer. I have the option to continue using IPB weather I pay for support or not... but I *DO* continue paying (and am happy to do so, no free lunch and all that). So, as I am an +Active Customer, who pays his fees (even though I don't need to be to continue using IPB under my license terms), why am I excluded from this?
Wolfie Posted July 23, 2009 Posted July 23, 2009 [quote name='Charles' date='22 July 2009 - 08:25 PM' timestamp='1248308756' post='1831188'] I personally think it is quite simple. We promised Perpetual and Lifetime license holders access to IPB downloads and technical support. This is a new service that did not even exist back then and is part of our new services plan that is included in the 6-month renewal fees. We have plenty more services planned in the future that will be the same sort of thing. They are new services - not technical support. Looking at the quote from the first post, a Lifetime license holder qualifies for this: [quote name='IPS News' date='22 July 2009 - 05:07 PM' timestamp='1248296851' post='1831035']Pricing To further our continuing efforts to not only enhance the products we offer but also the services around those products: this service will be offered at no additional charge to those with an active support and service license for IP.Board and for IPS hosting customers! However like I said, if it were worded to say "Standard IP.Board License" or something to that effect, that would be different. Also, as I'm aware that IPS is trying to boost its revenue (while also covering expenses), why not offer the service to Lifetime/Perp license holders for like $10/year? That would give the option to keep the current license but still generate additional revenue for IPS. Win-Win situation. What about my other question? Does their Spam-Monitoring end when their status goes to inactive or does it continue?
Management Charles Posted July 23, 2009 Management Posted July 23, 2009 The key expires when the license does. You can renew it if you renew your license, of course.
Wolfie Posted July 23, 2009 Posted July 23, 2009 [quote name='Charles' date='22 July 2009 - 08:38 PM' timestamp='1248309488' post='1831196'] The key expires when the license does. You can renew it if you renew your license, of course. Well then couldn't a new type of license be made, available only to Lifetime/Perp holders, where they pay $10/year (renewable at anytime, just like the standard IP.Board license)? That way IPS is making money (as I mentioned in my previous post) but not forcing the customer to change their license type?
Management Charles Posted July 23, 2009 Management Posted July 23, 2009 That would just be overhead. Besides, we plan on adding more services and don't want to get into setting prices for each one. It's easier to just say they're included.
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