Separate Themes for Version 4

[Bluto]

I work with another script and they have the themes setup where the admin and the front-end themes are separate.  I works wonderfully.  I can only assume that most people creating themes for version 4 are only going to modify the front-end templates - creating basically a front-end theme.  So, why have the front-end templates mixed with the back-end / admin templates? 

I like the idea of separate themes because if I created a custom theme I would never have to worry about updating the admin templates.  When an update was issued by IPS I would always have the most current fixes for the admin side and only have to worry about any changes in the custom front-end templates I created / modified.

Doing it this way would also allow people who create themes, to create separate admin themes.

Just an idea / suggestion.

[Dylan Riggs]

Generally, it's a rule of thumb to leave something like the admin side of things as stock as possible in case something was to happen as a fail safe. If you were to create custom admin templates, there is no harm in doing it, but if it's integrated with the front end and something gets messed up, you can no longer fix this through the ACP.

Atleast, that's my understanding for the reason behind that

[Bluto]

Generally, it's a rule of thumb to leave something like the admin side of things as stock as possible in case something was to happen as a fail safe. If you were to create custom admin templates, there is no harm in doing it, but if it's integrated with the front end and something gets messed up, you can no longer fix this through the ACP.

Atleast, that's my understanding for the reason behind that

​Maybe you misunderstood what I was trying to suggest.  I'm suggesting that the front-end and the back-end templates be separated.  Since I, and I'm assuming most people, will leave the admin templates untouched (what I believe you are suggesting), having the admin templates separate would allow me to create themes for the front-end and never touch the stock IPS admin theme.  As it is currently, if I create a new theme I have to incorporate the admin templates (they aren't separate) in my new custom theme.  This means that if something is modified by IPS (update to the software) in one of those admin templates, my custom theme will have to updated with the changes IPS made.  Keeping the admin and the front-end separate will mean I will never have to worry about updating any admin templates because the admin templates will all be contained in their own separate theme and updated to the latest whenever IPS releases any updates.

If someone would decide they wanted to create a custom admin theme that would be up to them.  I personally like the stock admin template and don't plan on using any other admin theme, if one was created.

[Flitterkill]

There is overlap on some/many CSS elements between the front end and the ACP; buttons, some text, etc. Some of the overlapping CSS is front buffered with ACP-specific classes/ids which prevents a lot of problems but there are some - I've encountered them coding up Spacious ACP.

As it stands now the extent of any work you would have to do if IPS alters the admin side templates is to just fire up designers mode and copy over the admin portion of the HTML directory from the default skin and paste it over into your skin's admin dir and you'd be set with a functioning default ACP. Pretty much zero-work.

There is some logic to having them - front and ACP - as separate themes but with all the overlap between css, etc going on I understand why it's all together in one package. The arrangement now is actually pretty alright. No matter what theme is set as default or chosen by a person for the front end, the ACP theme is set as default IPS and you have to manually chose to change it to another theme.

Actually, on further thought, you wouldn't even need to change anything in your front end theme to account for the ACP side. Just make a point to state that ACP side is unsupported (which is actually for the best right now). The only problem that can occur in the current state of things would be if a site owner deleted the IPS default theme and any/all remaining themes in the system have poorly supported ACP stuff as the ACP will fall back to whatever remaining theme/s there are (either jumping back to the top of the themes list or moving up one from whatever was selected before).

 I personally like the stock admin template and don't plan on using any other admin theme, if one was created.

There was one created already

http://community.invisionpower.com/files/file/7268-spacious-ACP/

[Bluto]

As it stands now the extent of any work you would have to do if IPS alters the admin side templates is to just fire up designers mode and copy over the admin portion of the HTML directory from the default skin and paste it over into your skin's admin dir and you'd be set with a functioning default ACP. Pretty much zero-work.

That's what I figured I would have to do if I was running a custom theme.  One of the reasons I though having a separate admin theme would solve - not having to touch any admin template files by having a separate admin theme.  So I could create a custom front-end theme never touching any of the back-end templates.

I'm not an expert with the theme system yet.  Just started to play around with it... been busy with playing around with other parts of the suite.  You seem to have a good knowledge of the theme structure being that you created the admin theme.  BTW - nice theme you created!

Is it possible to have the default theme set for the admin and another theme set for the front-end?  I think maybe that would be a good option, then I could totally disregard the admin folders and files in the theme I was creating.

[Flitterkill]

...to have the default theme set for the admin and another theme set for the front-end?  I think maybe that would be a good option, then I could totally disregard the admin folders and files in the theme I was creating.

​That is exactly what the system does now.

For example lets say you install IPS4 and then also install two additional themes - we'll call them theme2 and theme3.

Whoever you are, admin or user, you can select whatever you want for a theme on the front end (permissions willing). That's at the bottom of the forums or whatever app is loaded up. Select theme 2, or theme3 or keep it default and away you go.

If you are an admin and have selected theme2 as your theme on the front end and then decide to go to the ACP, once you enter the ACP you have the default IPS ACP because that is the theme that is by default selected for you on the ACP side. When you are in the ACP just click on your name on the top of the page and you can then select another theme to use for the ACP side of things.

Or, to put it simply: Users/admins always have SEPARATE choices for front-end theme and ACP theme. Choosing one does not affect the other at any time.

You probably have already seen this but in case you haven't... In the ACP:

[Bluto]

​That is exactly what the system does now.

For example lets say you install IPS4 and then also install two additional themes - we'll call them theme2 and theme3.

Whoever you are, admin or user, you can select whatever you want for a theme on the front end (permissions willing). That's at the bottom of the forums or whatever app is loaded up. Select theme 2, or theme3 or keep it default and away you go.

If you are an admin and have selected theme2 as your theme on the front end and then decide to go to the ACP, once you enter the ACP you have the default IPS ACP because that is the theme that is by default selected for you on the ACP side. When you are in the ACP just click on your name on the top of the page and you can then select another theme to use for the ACP side of things.

Or, to put it simply: Users/admins always have SEPARATE choices for front-end theme and ACP theme. Choosing one does not affect the other at any time.

You probably have already seen this but in case you haven't... In the ACP:

​Totally missed that.  I just started playing around with the themes and never even thought about clicking the drop down at the top of the ACP.

This is wonderful!  Pretty much what I was looking for.  Thanks for showing it to me.  This is going to work perfect.

[Dylan Riggs]

​Maybe you misunderstood what I was trying to suggest.  I'm suggesting that the front-end and the back-end templates be separated.  Since I, and I'm assuming most people, will leave the admin templates untouched (what I believe you are suggesting), having the admin templates separate would allow me to create themes for the front-end and never touch the stock IPS admin theme.  As it is currently, if I create a new theme I have to incorporate the admin templates (they aren't separate) in my new custom theme.  This means that if something is modified by IPS (update to the software) in one of those admin templates, my custom theme will have to updated with the changes IPS made.  Keeping the admin and the front-end separate will mean I will never have to worry about updating any admin templates because the admin templates will all be contained in their own separate theme and updated to the latest whenever IPS releases any updates.

If someone would decide they wanted to create a custom admin theme that would be up to them.  I personally like the stock admin template and don't plan on using any other admin theme, if one was created.

​I'm tracking now. Sorry, I read what you suggested on just a few hours of sleep and on a bad day lol.