IPB 3.0 Idea

[ellawella]

SEO URLs +1

They can always be /index.php/test/ if mod_rewrite is not available.

Come to think of it, that was probably what McQ meant when he was going on about it. But again, as far as I can recall that requires another server-specific setting to be enabled. Plus virtually the entire of IPB would have to be altered so links were generated one way if FURLs were enabled, or another way if they weren't.

I still see this as a clear-cut modification option.

[Jinghao]

SEO URLs +1

They can always be /index.php/test/ if mod_rewrite is not available.

Apache on windows servers? No way.

How?

If correctly implemented (as it was by Groupee), the new FURL links worked and the old links worked (part of the conversion process created the old URLs as aliases for their related new FURLs.).

What "structure" is jeopardy here?

More importantly, going forward shouldn't IPB be incorporating desired features into the base product? If so, is there a reason that MOST admins would not want their sites to be properly indexed by search engines? Is IPB marketing itself as the preferred option for sites that want to run in "stealth" mode on the Internet?

Mods can be wonderful things. But they aren't supported by IPB, so using them is inherently risky and can inject needless complexity into the site administration process.

But more to the point, FURLs would be a major advance for most board administrators and IPB, since FURLs significantly increase the search engine visibility of websites and IPB products.

To this day, Google has THOUSANDS more links to posts/threads from my old Groupee forums that had FURLs (no mod required), despite the fact that Groupee has been constantly accessing my IPB forums since May.

Admins should not have to mod a product to get the industry-standard search engine (Google) to properly index their sites.

What you don't understand is that URL rewriting is not available on all servers. You keep saying they are, but you are completely wrong.

You can't see the forest through all the trees.

Forget that any mod exists for FURLs, because they--and their limitations--have nothing to do with the feature request for FURLs.

This is a BASE CHANGE to IPB that would require a one-time conversion of existing URLS to FURLS. Any web server on the planet earth can handle FURLS. Nobody is asking Apache or IIS to rewrite anything.

This conversion would benefit almost EVERY IBP site SIGNIFICANTLY within one month in terms of search engine visibility. IPB could easily test this claim by mirroring THIS forum with an identical FURL-converted forum and then watching WHICH links rise to the top of the Google results.

You remind me of those people who keep arguing the same thing, using the same arguments, attacking the same arguments, with arguments that have already been proven false.

[McQ]

What you don't understand is that URL rewriting is not available on all servers. You keep saying they are, but you are completely wrong.

Let me break it down for you.

URLs are data--that's it. There is nothing magical about them.

Computer programs can systematically manipulate data.

Part of IPB's conversion to FURLs would be a program to systematically manipulate the URL data.

Get it?

No Apache required. No IIS required.

You guys keep talking about web servers and other stuff that has no bearing on a data conversion UNLESS the conversion is dependent on an existing mod.

EVERY current IPB board is using MySQL (or a commercial version of a SQL-based database). The conversion program (or SQL statements) might have to be tweaked for these variations, but that is about it.

DATA CONVERSION TIP: When you convert a large amount of data, do it via the database. Apache and IIS are not data conversion tools.

I'm done arguing in this thread. Hopefully somebody at IPB who understands the issue (and the technology) will do the test that I suggested in a prior post in this thread. Because the way companies stay ahead in a competitive business is by satisfying customer needs. So if most customers NEED FURLs, that need should not be met by an unsupported mod.

Now please excuse me while I get back to my job of converting tens-of-millions of rows (annually) of legacy data for the Philadelphia Police Dept.

McQ

fred.mcquiggan@phila.gov

[ellawella]

The only way to achieve what you're suggesting is to parse the incoming vars using $_SERVER['PATH_INFO'] as opposed to with $_GET, $_POST etc. within IPB's normal parse_incoming() function in /sources/ipsclass.php, then replace within the wrapper all URLs in the format of <boardurl>index.php?stuff=stuff&stuff=stuff with <boardurl>index.php/stuff/stuff/stuff/stuff using some kind of regex. But again, I don't think PATH_INFO is always available. I could be wrong. If it is, then I guess your suggestion is actually workable after all. But numerous staff members have dismissed it, so I assume PATH_INFO can't be relied on.

[theslamforevryone]

Uhh. Whats the big deal about having it default? Make it an option...thats all. Make it so that you can turn it ON...or OFF. Either one. Simple as that. That would solve all this bickering (ofcourse that would take some work, but if they made friendly url's hardcoded, they would plumet. I woudlnt be able to use it...I turn on mod_rewrite, and nothing works. So it would be loss of a sale from me...).

[Guest]

Let me break it down for you.

URLs are data--that's it. There is nothing magical about them.

Computer programs can systematically manipulate data.

Part of IPB's conversion to FURLs would be a program to systematically manipulate the URL data.

Get it?

No Apache required. No IIS required.

You guys keep talking about web servers and other stuff that has no bearing on a data conversion UNLESS the conversion is dependent on an

existing

mod.

With respect to exactly how this would be implemented, you appear to be missing the point. Of course IPB would be able to handle FURL's quite simply, and that would be manipulating data, and using the database as you describe. However, what is in question here is how you could create a friendly URL implementation that works across the major server software providers.

To create a URL such as mydomain.com/forums/My_Topic_Title_Here.html, you would need some sort of server software level rewriting, to allow your script to be called. Implementation of rewriting is massively different between the softwares and between the versions of each.

To create a URL such as mydomain.com/forums/index.php/My_Topic_Title_Here.html, your server software would need to provide PHP with the $_SERVER['PATH_INFO'] variable, to my knowledge, Apache is the only one that does this.

Of course, you could use URL's like mydomain.com/forums/index.php?My_Topic_Title_Here, or index.php?topic=My_Topic_Title_Here, but that's really not a lot more friendly than simply using query string URL's in the first place.

There really is no other way you could manipulate the URL used to access it via PHP alone. The server software in use does have a bearing on how this could work. Unless of course you're suggesting that all existing posts in the database be loaded, and cached to individual HTML files based on their topic title.

Of course, you don't have to take the word of me or any of the other web developers who posted here. Infact, I'd be beyond happy if you showed me up with a working, coded example of how to do this cross-platform, regardless of server software and configuration. :thumbsup:

[Stuart Elliott]

Wouldn't a mod wanted by almost every admin be

..snip..

I think you're confusing your want, with everyone.. I sure as hell don't care whether my links look like numbers or words.

[ph_bradley]

+1

IPB doing this would really impress me and secure my loyalty forever. I don't know a single admin who doesn't want better SERPS; anything IPB can do to provide that, should be done. I'd happily forego development of another AJAX feature, if they were to do a bit of SEO on their software. I don't want to be reinstalling mods every time there's an update

[BRamburn]

I'd add a +1 to your first request, the problem is that they have to support windows users as well and aparently they don't have mod_rewrite...

you sure?

I am running xampp with php5 and mysql 4 and it does have mod_rewrite

[ZuCruTrooper2]

I believe he's referring to users who run Internet Information Services, the Windows integrated webserver, along with users of other software that isn't Apache. Although Apache is the most popular http server, it certainly isn't the only one. There are a lot of users for IIS, Xitami, Lighttpd, and thttpd.

[ellawella]

Heaven forbid people actually bothering to read the thread before posting a response.

[cooldude7273]

..snip..

I think you're confusing your want, with everyone.. I sure as hell don't care whether my links look like numbers or words.

Agreed. :) I find the numbering system just fine. Search engines don't need it either, I can see all 137,000 results for my forums on Google just fine. :thumbsup:

[mrkredo]

Uhh. Whats the big deal about having it default? Make it an option...thats all. Make it so that you can turn it ON...or OFF. Either one. Simple as that. That would solve all this bickering (ofcourse that would take some work, but if they made friendly url's hardcoded, they would plumet. I woudlnt be able to use it...I turn on mod_rewrite, and nothing works. So it would be loss of a sale from me...).

Yes. Every blog engine has it as optional feature you can enable/ disable at anytime. FURL.. I don't think it is a good mod. You not able to see any friendly URL until you reach page 3 or 4. Vbulletin enabled that friendly URL feature year ago. All you need is mod_rewrite enabed. If you don't, you just use default URLs.

Give us some SEO URLS, IPB people! Please? o:)

[Mat Barrie]

...

To create a URL such as mydomain.com/forums/index.php/My_Topic_Title_Here.html, your server software would need to provide PHP with the $_SERVER['PATH_INFO'] variable, to my knowledge, Apache is the only one that does this.

...

For reference, Internet Information Services does this also, at least in the 6 series and higher - assuming you don't mind editing the Metabase. And by that, I mean with a Metabase editor tool. It's not an option in IIS Admin Console.

[BRamburn]

I'd add a +1 to your first request, the problem is that they have to support windows users as well and aparently they don't have mod_rewrite...

they do have mod_rewrite but it has some funny way of understanding regex

[Stuart Elliott]

R.I.P. this thread

[Millar]

SEO friendly URL's are just what I would love. A lot of money is spent by board owners buyin SEO mods, IPB would be a lot more appealing with SEO urls.

[Spunkyasp]

I think you should make a feature that the owner of the board can not be modified by other root administrators.

[Guest]

I think you should make a feature that the owner of the board can not be modified by other root administrators.

I've said it before, but if you can't trust someone to not mess with your account if you explicitly tell them not to, then they shouldn't be root admins.

[OpenWare]

I think you should make a feature that the owner of the board can not be modified by other root administrators.

Easiest way to do that.. add an additional parameter to the conf_global file like what vB does.. where you can add the user ID's of members (i.e. the owners) that cannot be edited/deleted from the ACP.

The way I rationalise it is.. the only people that need to be Root Admins, are the site owners/technical staff, who /need/ that extra level of access, the regular admin a/c is where I place all my admins into on every site I work on, I dont give anyone access they dont need.

[MaNiAc LRSC]

Some of you guys don't understand what McQ says.
The webservers don't need to rewrite the URLs to FURLS if IPB 3.0 would convert the old number based links to FURLS already within the database. That's the easiest way and there are no compability issues.

Im a Admin who is dependent on search engine traffic, so if there will be no FURL / good SEO support in 3.0, i will convert to another boad.