Marketplace: domain based licenses / encoded files

[IPBWI.com Matthias Reuter]

Dear Support,

while IPBWI for WordPress v4 is going big steps forward in development, I want to make sure to avoid piracy as I did successfully with v3 before - but want to allow sales through IPS marketplace.

So here are my questions:

1. Do have a feature to sell ioncube encoded, domain binded packages?
2. This would require to allow customers to re-purchase an item several times for each domain they want to use
3. and if both above are not possible: Do you allow to utilize IP.board marketplace API to sell a wrapper script first which handles license status and downloads/install encoded files on customer's host to enable functionality?

As I am going to provide a high quality extension which brings unique and powerful functionality, I want to avoid flat fees, piracy etc. as it would reduce my income drastically.

I want to try out selling the next major release of IPBWI for WordPress through marketplace to allow you to promote it with increasing your revenew, too. Please note that I am providing IPBWI API since 2007, so I am one of the trustiest contributors to your software and appreciate any help you can provide to maximize sales of IPBWI for WordPress v4. Maybe there is even a chance you would consider adding my addon as official module to your extensions. This would require further discussions of course and there could be a skype meeting appropriated.

Thank you for considering.

Kind regards,

Matthias

[AndyF]

I can say we used to permit 'encoded' files in the Marketplace (we would *not* ask for an un-encoded one) , I do not know if the situation has changed. However the file description did *need* to state the file was encoded (and what with be it Zend / Ioncube etc)

Regarding tying it to a specific URL, I can vaguely recall I think one submission that had this (again a long time ago) it was not a problem for the 'test' as such although a temporary key/licence or suchlike (24 hours or less) was required by the MP tester to verify the submission itself.

I'm not aware of the situation of these and your current questions at this moment in time, simply as they have not been asked before.

[IPBWI.com Matthias Reuter]

Hi Andy,

thank you for your rapid answer. Two questions remaining:

1. Repurchase of a package through marketplace from a customer isn't possible right now, is it? I'll need to add my own "buy another license" shop somewhere?
2. Even if IPBWI for WordPress fit's your quality guidelines, there is no chance getting it as official extension through your main-store in some kind of partnership? This would make that a lot easier, as this would allow domain-binded selling while encoding won't be that important anymore because of the better visiblity and therefor higher amount of sales. With IPBWI for WordPress v4, we are talking about an extension on enterprise level here, that's why I am asking.

Kind regards,

Matthias

[AndyF]

A client can re-purchase again. This is what I see when looking at one of the files I purchased (I've not renewed as I do not currently use it) for instance:

Note that the download button will likely not be there (its there due to my 'position') but the option to renew and or "purchase another" is the relevant part of this picture.

It would be best to await Management to answer your questions in further detail however. , As per my post above I can only really say "how it was" and as above I'm not sure if its changed.

[teraßyte]

For licensing and such you need to use the the API to link/add the purchases on your site and generate the licenses. That's what I was working on a while ago, but then I scrapped it because of other things.

[IPBWI.com Matthias Reuter]

On 20.5.2016 at 11:33 PM, teraßyte said:

For licensing and such you need to use the the API to link/add the purchases on your site and generate the licenses. That's what I was working on a while ago, but then I scrapped it because of other things.

Developing a proper licensing system including some kind of automatic - domain binded - encryption will take a serious amount of time what I prefer to invest in more features. Hope IPS Management will read this topic and may integrate my application into their distribution plattform instead of market place - this would allow a better marketing and would reduce need of encryption and of course an own license management tool.

[DawPi]

It's your product special or what? Why IPS should pickup your product instead of others?

[teraßyte]

2 hours ago, IPBWI.com Matthias Reuter said:

Developing a proper licensing system including some kind of automatic - domain binded - encryption will take a serious amount of time what I prefer to invest in more features. Hope IPS Management will read this topic and may integrate my application into their distribution plattform instead of market place - this would allow a better marketing and would reduce need of encryption and of course an own license management tool.

My plan (at the time) was to simply create a new package in IP.Nexus on my own site (through the API) and then the package on my site has a license key associated. So yeah, a good part of the job was already covered by IP.Nexus and I only had to code my own license key file if I wanted to. Or I could have just used the default license file included by default.

[DesignzShop]

API doesn't add the url if it's not entered at IPB. Personally I wouldn't code in anything with license checking, it can be removed, however, I've brought this up for over a year and sent Lindy several emails asking to have a url field added to marketplace that the purchaser would be forced to enter if the developer requires it. I have never gotten a response after the many times asking, even again just recently.. I've also posted this here at the forum to no avail. IPB knows how important it is to have a licensed url, they require it for their software, they are certainly aware of how important it is.

I myself and several other developers refuse to sell in marketplace over this exact issue. Good luck.

[AndyF]

My 'concern' with this (I speak as a client with this post) , is that there should not be anything really in the third party application that disables it or worse still: part of the clients community *if* it cannot communicate.

By this I do not mean that the check has been circumvented simply if the 'addon' is relying on a response from the authors site and for whatever reason it cannot get an answer (perhaps the author is moving their site between servers, has a large network outage or something) then the app should really still function properly.

[IPBWI.com Matthias Reuter]

4 hours ago, DawPi said:

It's your product special or what? Why IPS should pickup your product instead of others?

As I said, it's in enterprise quality and could increase sales for IP.board, too, if promoted successfully. Maybe I was first one asking for some deal like this and I am confident my application worths considering.

3 hours ago, DesignzShop said:

API doesn't add the url if it's not entered at IPB. Personally I wouldn't code in anything with license checking, it can be removed, however, I've brought this up for over a year and sent Lindy several emails asking to have a url field added to marketplace that the purchaser would be forced to enter if the developer requires it. I have never gotten a response after the many times asking, even again just recently.. I've also posted this here at the forum to no avail. IPB knows how important it is to have a licensed url, they require it for their software, they are certainly aware of how important it is.

I myself and several other developers refuse to sell in marketplace over this exact issue. Good luck.

domain validation could be done by binding domain to license key afterwards. license-key/domain relationship can be saved in my database, too. But the whole validation / license toolset could be used from IPS if they would open their gates for "trusted partners".

3 hours ago, AndyF said:

My 'concern' with this (I speak as a client with this post) , is that there should not be anything really in the third party application that disables it or worse still: part of the clients community *if* it cannot communicate.

By this I do not mean that the check has been circumvented simply if the 'addon' is relying on a response from the authors site and for whatever reason it cannot get an answer (perhaps the author is moving their site between servers, has a large network outage or something) then the app should really still function properly.

That's not in my mind. I am talking about encryption and domain-binding. Software should work lifetime without need of call-to-home to work. Call-to-home would be implemented to allow download of additional files (which could be backuped by customer) and for updates (maybe automaticly in my scenario).

[Lindy]

We cannot allow encoded applications in the marketplace, I'm afraid. Setting aside the obvious security implications, we frankly don't want to deal with the refund requests, complaints and ill will when they can't get the app to work on their $20/yr. server - it's not worth it to us. 

Our apps aren't encoded, even Nexus/Commerce as of IPS4. There's reasons for this -- they're a hassle from a support standpoint and they tend to annoy people in this industry. In this case, it just seems a bit strange to encode an API - I think I would take issue with having two products and then yet another third party product in between passing data that I'm unable to see. 

Regarding the licensed URL requirement -- @DesignzShop; believe me, I'm aware of your request.  I haven't had the time nor inclination (you're one of maybe 3 people insistent on this) to properly vet this. At a minimum, our terms and conditions would need to be updated and a disclaimer added to note that they are sharing this information with a third party not affiliated with IPS. I have no problem adding a field, but I'm not so sure about allowing it to be required. 

[Aiwa]

On 5/23/2016 at 10:25 AM, DesignzShop said:

API doesn't add the url if it's not entered at IPB. Personally I wouldn't code in anything with license checking, it can be removed, however, I've brought this up for over a year and sent Lindy several emails asking to have a url field added to marketplace that the purchaser would be forced to enter if the developer requires it. I have never gotten a response after the many times asking, even again just recently.. I've also posted this here at the forum to no avail. IPB knows how important it is to have a licensed url, they require it for their software, they are certainly aware of how important it is.

I myself and several other developers refuse to sell in marketplace over this exact issue. Good luck.

In all honesty, this URL Field you're asking for has the same issue as the IPS license change.  Your client would need to be able to change it if they ended a project, and re-activated their IPS license on another domain.  Now the Marketplace purchase would need to be updated.  This has farther reaching implications than appears on the surface.  

My suggestion to you, let paying customers install it on as many sites as they want.  You can't stop them from doing that without considerable effort and wasting your own time.  What you can control, however, is support. Get the domain they would like support for and log it with their account when they ask for support.  If they ask about a different domain, require proof the old domain no longer exists and update the URL on your end.  

I, personally, don't think this is something that should be managed via the Marketplace but rather on the developers end.  

13 minutes ago, Lindy said:

Regarding the licensed URL requirement -- @DesignzShop; believe me, I'm aware of your request.  I haven't had the time nor inclination (you're one of maybe 3 people insistent on this) to properly vet this. At a minimum, our terms and conditions would need to be updated and a disclaimer added to note that they are sharing this information with a third party not affiliated with IPS. I have no problem adding a field, but I'm not so sure about allowing it to be required. 

 

[IPBWI.com Matthias Reuter]

1 hour ago, Lindy said:

We cannot allow encoded applications in the marketplace, I'm afraid. Setting aside the obvious security implications, we frankly don't want to deal with the refund requests, complaints and ill will when they can't get the app to work on their $20/yr. server - it's not worth it to us. 

Our apps aren't encoded, even Nexus/Commerce as of IPS4. There's reasons for this -- they're a hassle from a support standpoint and they tend to annoy people in this industry. In this case, it just seems a bit strange to encode an API - I think I would take issue with having two products and then yet another third party product in between passing data that I'm unable to see. 

The API would be still opensource, but the WordPress plugin would be encoded.

Support Requests could be reduced by a test-file allowing checking server requirements before purchase.

But of course, I understand your arguments and I'll consider to make the plugin more modular to allow additional revenue for extra features.

Thank you for your response!

[DesignzShop]

On 5/24/2016 at 10:34 AM, Aiwa said:

My suggestion to you, let paying customers install it on as many sites as they want.  

 

Thanks for the suggestion Aiwa however, a un-limited license to install anywhere is not something I'd be interested in.

 

On 5/24/2016 at 10:16 AM, Lindy said:

Regarding the licensed URL requirement -- @DesignzShop; believe me, I'm aware of your request.  I haven't had the time nor inclination (you're one of maybe 3 people insistent on this) to properly vet this. At a minimum, our terms and conditions would need to be updated and a disclaimer added to note that they are sharing this information with a third party not affiliated with IPS. I have no problem adding a field, but I'm not so sure about allowing it to be required. 

I'm not talking about sharing information in a per-defined field pulling from your (IPB) database here Lindy. 

1. A simple option like a checkbox when a provider creates a product that says "Check this if you require a site url to be associated with your product license".. Make that field required for the product then.
2. Provide a empty field for the purchaser to add their site url, not a field that automatically uses the purchasers IPB information
3. Allow each provider access to that field up-front to change that url if needed so IPB's not bothered with field changes

I think there's too much thought going into how this could work. I'd also lay odds that a lot of other providers would use this if included.

[BomAle]

some devs decrease price for separated license by same client. This could be handled for future on contributor center.

 

[DesignzShop]

Is there any update to adding this field please ?