IP.Boards SMTP or PHP Mail()?

[RawrLikeMe]

I have a dedicated Linux server that is currently hosting my forums. I was wondering if I should install a SMTP server, or just use SMTP? I plan on using html emails for news letters every now and then, and was wondering which option would be the best!

Thanks :)

[abshkd]

I use Amazon SES as my smtp service for all sites. it's cheap and does the job well No hassle to setup own server or maintain. unfortunately its not working with IPB atm. I just bought my copy of IPB like a month ago. Still looking for a fix or troubleshooting. if that can be fixed then there is no better alternative to Amazon SES.

[RawrLikeMe]

I use Amazon SES as my smtp service for all sites. it's cheap and does the job well No hassle to setup own server or maintain. unfortunately its not working with IPB atm. I just bought my copy of IPB like a month ago. Still looking for a fix or troubleshooting. if that can be fixed then there is no better alternative to Amazon SES.

Thanks! Hope this gets fixed. i really want to try this out!

[Ichirō]

I have a dedicated Linux server that is currently hosting my forums. I was wondering if I should install a SMTP server, or just use SMTP? I plan on using html emails for news letters every now and then, and was wondering which option would be the best!

Thanks :smile:

Be warned, that if you are planning on using SMTP and have a large board with lots of people following forums with instant notifcations this will cause an issue with topic submission times.

Its an issue IPB is aware of and will do something about in a future release...

[3DKiwi]

Why not use the mandril service? Built in 3.4.3 I'm using the free email service on my medium / large forums without any issues. Prior to that I used smtp. Don't use the php mail option in the ACP. Myself and others have found this unreliable i.e. emails often aren't sent.

[Grumpy]

I use Amazon SES as my smtp service for all sites. it's cheap and does the job well No hassle to setup own server or maintain. unfortunately its not working with IPB atm. I just bought my copy of IPB like a month ago. Still looking for a fix or troubleshooting. if that can be fixed then there is no better alternative to Amazon SES.

I've been using Amazon SES with IPB since IPB 3.1. Haven't had any issues. Though, the credential part is somewhat non-trivial. I posted a screenshot of it sometime b4 in this site... can't find it.

Edit: Found it: http://community.invisionpower.com/topic/367102-how-to-configure-ipboard-to-send-mail-through-amazon-ses/?p=2294597

Don't use the php mail option in the ACP. Myself and others have found this unreliable i.e. emails often aren't sent.

That's really a server/network/system administration/ip blacklisting issue and not an IPB issue. But it indeed is unreliable. For a fresh new IP to begin getting 99%+ delivery rate, a LOT of work goes into it.

[GreenLinks]

Why not use the mandril service? Built in 3.4.3 I'm using the free email service on my medium / large forums without any issues. Prior to that I used smtp. Don't use the php mail option in the ACP. Myself and others have found this unreliable i.e. emails often aren't sent.

Because Mandrill is extremely expensive against it's competitors

[Ichirō]

Another bad feature of php mail is it reveals your backend ip to everyone that registers in the email source code. So for all those sites using Cloudflare to hide the backend ip or any ddos protection, all a user needs to do is simply register and gain your ip...

If you use alternative mailing methods you can do something about this.

[3DKiwi]

Because Mandrill is extremely expensive against it's competitors

Unless you're sending out newsletters then the free account gives you enough emails per month for a medium large forum.

[Makoto]

I send hundreds of e-mails daily using PHP mail.

I run my own dedicated server, and I've ran into my share of problems with being blacklisted by services such as Hotmail twice (once after moving to a new server).

Since then I've taken measures to help prevent this from happening again. I've gone back and forth with Hotmail's customer support making it clear that I've gone out of my way to provide my users with an easy means of unsubscribing from site e-mails and that I am doing nothing wrong.

Since then, it's been nearly a year now since I've had any real problems. Though messages may go to spam for some users, it still works just fine. I process around 1,000 registrations a month and have no issues with members being unable to register or members claiming e-mails are dropped.

There is nothing wrong with using your dedicated server to process e-mails. In fact, I would encourage it. I prefer to avoid relying on third party services whenever possible.

Another bad feature of php mail is it reveals your backend ip to everyone that registers in the email source code. So for all those sites using Cloudflare to hide the backend ip or any ddos protection, all a user needs to do is simply register and gain your ip...

If you use alternative mailing methods you can do something about this.

That's not a "bad feature." That should be obvious, you're sending e-mails directly from your server. Obviously, it's going to appear to come from.. well.. your server. Maybe it's something to consider, but it's not in any sense a "bad feature." I don't use CloudFlare or any such related service, though. So it's of no concern to me. For others that do, sure, it's something to consider if you're paranoid.

In the end, it's your choice. Do you want to rely on someone else to handle and process all of your outgoing e-mails? Do you care that you're entrusting this to a third party? Does it bother you that they will basically be able to read every e-mail sent from your server? How much is your time worth? It just depends on what you think will work best for you.

[Ichirō]

I send hundreds of e-mails daily using PHP mail.

I run my own dedicated server, and I've ran into my share of problems with being blacklisted by services such as Hotmail twice (once after moving to a new server).

Since then I've taken measures to help prevent this from happening again. I've gone back and forth with Hotmail's customer support making it clear that I've gone out of my way to provide my users with an easy means of unsubscribing from site e-mails and that I am doing nothing wrong.

Since then, it's been nearly a year now since I've had any real problems. Though messages may go to spam for some users, it still works just fine. I process around 1,000 registrations a month and have no issues with members being unable to register or members claiming e-mails are dropped.

There is nothing wrong with using your dedicated server to process e-mails. In fact, I would encourage it. I prefer to avoid relying on third party services whenever possible.
That's not a "bad feature." That should be obvious, you're sending e-mails directly from your server. Obviously, it's going to appear to come from.. well.. your server. Maybe it's something to consider, but it's not in any sense a "bad feature." I don't use CloudFlare or any such related service, though. So it's of no concern to me. For others that do, sure, it's something to consider if you're paranoid.

In the end, it's your choice. Do you want to rely on someone else to handle and process all of your outgoing e-mails? Do you care that you're entrusting this to a third party? Does it bother you that they will basically be able to read every e-mail sent from your server? How much is your time worth? It just depends on what you think will work best for you.

Its not only the paranoid that should worry about their backend server ip being so readily available whilst using php mail.. infact its the ignorant that wouldn`t be concerned that their servers backend ip is visible to anyone that signs up.

[Makoto]

Its not only the paranoid that should worry about their backend server ip being so readily available whilst using php mail.. infact its the ignorant that wouldn`t be concerned that their servers backend ip is visible to anyone that signs up.

A web servers IP is not really meant to be a secret. Do you understand how the internet works? You're essentially calling everyone who doesn't use CloudFlare ignorant. That's a foolish and invalid assessment.

Assuming you're not using CloudFlare or some other service to mask your servers real IP, it's always going to be readily available to anyone that pings it. If you intend on using any other non-web based service, you're going to have to "expose" your IP anyways.

I said it was worth noting for CloudFlare users, but that's the end of it.

[GreenLinks]

Unless you're sending out newsletters then the free account gives you enough emails per month for a medium large forum.

the free limit mandrill gives me will not even last 6 hours for our board. We process over 50k daily subscription e-mails only.

[Ichirō]

A web servers IP is not really meant to be a secret. Do you understand how the internet works? You're essentially calling everyone who doesn't use CloudFlare ignorant. That's a foolish and invalid assessment.

Assuming you're not using CloudFlare or some other service to mask your servers real IP, it's always going to be readily available to anyone that pings it. If you intend on using any other non-web based service, you're going to have to "expose" your IP anyways.

I said it was worth noting for CloudFlare users, but that's the end of it.

No im not saying that at all , you sir are being ignorant and choosing to ignore what im actually saying. This has nothing to do with cloudflare , i suggest you re read and re digest exactly what i am saying.

Allow me to take the time to break it down for you ...

If you use php mail rather than smtp you will be allowing new registrations to view your backend ip.

Allowing people to view your backend ip is a security risk.

There are ways to protect your backend ip, methods such as using a proxy filter, ( not going to mention cloudflare as it causes confusion) etc...

You can leave your backend ip open for all to view, its not the end of the world, but with every man and his dog having access to a botnet, or ddos tool its shrewd ( i think thats the opposite of ignorant) to try to hide the backend ip.

Now onto a different subject whilst trying to remain on topic here...

Cloudflare!

Cloudflare will portect your backend ip to some extent although its not ideal in most circumstances becuase if you do suffer a massive ddos attack they will route the attack directly to your backend anyway thus revealing your backend ip!

Also if you ping a server that has protected ip you wont see the real ip !

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[Makoto]

Connecting your server to the internet is a security risk. You should just unplug the cord.

[Makoto]

the free limit mandrill gives me will not even last 6 hours for our board. We process over 50k daily subscription e-mails only.

To be fair, I don't think there are many people here that can come close to matching you there. 50k daily is quite a significant amount.

[Ichirō]

Connecting your server to the internet is a security risk. You should just unplug the cord.

I rest my case.

[PeterUK]

PHP mail() is suitable for most and shouldn't result in many delivery problems at all if you add the correct SPF records to your domain to allow your server IP to send mail via the domain. Your "from" e-mail should also be a real inbox and not an address which bounces. For most people, the IP their domain name resolves to will be the same IP that PHP mail() reveals so it wouldn't be an issue. There are of course, exceptions.

[Grumpy]

PHP mail() is suitable for most and shouldn't result in many delivery problems at all...

Not according to the advertising line of sendgrid~ lol (http://sendgrid.com/solutions.html) :rolleyes:

But these days, when you get a new server, so often you'll find it under a few blacklists. IPs ran out, spammers trying to get their hands on many ips as possible. Clean IP alone is becoming more and more of a rarity. And the if you find yourself sending a large number of emails, even if they're legitimate, inline with spf, proper point backs, everything, bunch of service will blocklist you for sending many email from unknown source. >.<

It's just too much of hassle to play with the "warm-up", get cleaned from blacklist and then deal with whitelist based providers (worst ones).

I'm sure it's not 80% that fails to deliver like sendgrid says, but the probability is likely to be pretty ugly from a new ip sending out lots of mails.

[Makoto]

My server has nearly a 100% delivery rate.

It involves you taking time yourself to properly set everything up, but it's not anywhere near impossible, even if you send large volumes of e-mails.

It may be too much of a hassle for you, but I prefer not having to rely on a third party service, especially for e-mail.

[RawrLikeMe]

My server has nearly a 100% delivery rate.

It involves you taking time yourself to properly set everything up, but it's not anywhere near impossible, even if you send large volumes of e-mails.

It may be too much of a hassle for you, but I prefer not having to rely on a third party service, especially for e-mail.

If i use phpmsil will my emails be spammed? I know if i do smtp it just gets put in spam and is annoying. Is there a way to easily get it white listed ir something? Im new to running a dedicated server so i'm not sure what will happen to my emails :(

Thanks :)

[abshkd]

I've been using Amazon SES with IPB since IPB 3.1. Haven't had any issues. Though, the credential part is somewhat non-trivial. I posted a screenshot of it sometime b4 in this site... can't find it.

Edit: Found it: http://community.invisionpower.com/topic/367102-how-to-configure-ipboard-to-send-mail-through-amazon-ses/?p=2294597That's really a server/network/system administration/ip blacklisting issue and not an IPB issue. But it indeed is unreliable. For a fresh new IP to begin getting 99%+ delivery rate, a LOT of work goes into it.

Hey Grumpy,

Thanks for that but I did find the solution almost accidently. I was installing another script and noticed that it too isnt working. Turns out it's TLS and PHP. They don't work well together atleast not for amazon. When i switched to SSL it worked fine.

I havent yet set it on IPB yet, but I am near 100% sure it's going to be the same fix. Use SSL not TLS. I hope it helps someone else from the chasing their tails for days on end.

[MGBrose]

Because Mandrill is extremely expensive against it's competitors

Hmm mandrill is .10 more per thousand than amazon SES. I might have to consider switching eventually if my costs get high enough.

However right now, I route everything to mandrill, I hate running my own email servers so many places for problems. And Mandrill gives me shiny activity reports!

BTW we had horrible results with PHPmail on our site, SMTP proced to be way more reliable. PHPmail wasn't getting emails to alot of our members inboxes.

[.Nuno.]

For those who use default smtp how do you deal with email accounts that don't exists anymore and user with over quota?

I've tested both sendgrid and mandril a these are great options but I would like to avoid paying for a relay service.

[Dmacleo]

I publicly shame them and make fun of them for using an email address for a domain they let expire....thats just me though :)

really not much you can do, if you see the bouncebacks in mandrill/whatever due to domain not existing suppose you could just delete their email address but there does not seem to be an easy answer.