Invision Community 4: SEO, prepare for v5 and dormant account notifications By Matt November 11, 2024
Management Matt Posted September 29, 2010 Management Posted September 29, 2010 I give up. My vbulletin forum had tags. My Expression Engine websites have tags. It looks like my IPS website will not have tags for this reason or that. :white flag: The vBulletin implementation isn't very thorough and I don't believe it brings up a page of results across all content types. Or perhaps it does now. I've never said "never". We've always maintained that we want to write an intelligent useful and efficient implementation and that is a considerable amount of work to undertake.
Amy T Posted September 29, 2010 Posted September 29, 2010 What about my idea of using a tabbed tagging thingy like the search? One of the things I really need in a tag system is a page that lists all tags.
cmiller Posted January 31, 2011 Posted January 31, 2011 Tags are a must.... and YES... automate them!
Mat B Posted January 31, 2011 Posted January 31, 2011 Tags are a must.... and YES... automate them! cmiller, as Matt asked eariler in the thread, it would be much more helpful if you could describe your use case for tags so we can consider it in our design planning - "we want tags" isn't helpful without an idea of how you intend to use them.
Amy T Posted January 31, 2011 Posted January 31, 2011 cmiller, as Matt asked eariler in the thread, it would be much more helpful if you could describe your use case for tags so we can consider it in our design planning - "we want tags" isn't helpful without an idea of how you intend to use them. I am a customer who also needs tags but for navigation. I need it more in the IP.content then the board it self bit it would be helpful both places. As I mentioned it helps in finding things or navigation which are the same thing. Say you have a topic about anime and you want to make tags for the different genre that anime belongs too. Most anime have more then one genre they belong to so would have more then one tag. This is exactly how I would use it so people can find anime of the genre they like. On my new anime site I have been manually creating the tags and tag list pages but this takes a long time for each entry. Basically I have to edit several pages just to add one entry, having a built in tag system would save me a lot of time.
cmiller Posted January 31, 2011 Posted January 31, 2011 Mat, Quite simply, we use them to easily group LIKE topics together in one area. We also use them on 3 letter, and non english words so that they can be found. One example... I have a firearm site. There are lots of topics on different rounds. .223, 22-250, 243, .30-06, etc. Tags keep all these topics together. So while people can go into a specific forum to discuss a specific firearm, they cannot then find the best round for that firearm without using tags. On another business site, there are many discussions about companies who have a 2-3 letter acronym... so finding ADP, or IE, or DC is easy with tags but not so much with a regular search. Not to mention, we have contributors who have spent countless hours adding tags over the years. If all of that goes away in this conversion, I am going to have some people VERY mad at me.
Jυra Posted February 3, 2011 Posted February 3, 2011 Tags are a must.... and YES... automate them! Maybe suggested ones (already existing tags), but not automated ones. That'd mean some forums would have to have it off or go back to remove/clean the stupid and redundant ones.
LeadCrow Posted February 3, 2011 Posted February 3, 2011 One more vote from voiceless peasants.However, keep them separate between applications, no 'integration' (tying tags to other apps strikes me as complete nonsense). Tags exist for blog, the same could just as well be done for threads. Where's the alleged difficulty? Tags created for threads arent necessarily any relevant to nor welcome for IPC, blog, downloads...
cmiller Posted February 4, 2011 Posted February 4, 2011 Tags created for threads arent necessarily any relevant to nor welcome for IPC, blog, downloads... Weird take on this. A tag is a tag is a tag and should be used to pool all similar content together. If I take the time to click on a tag, I would certainly like to see a list showing me all content matching that tag. Just like a good vbulletin search provides. At VERY minimum, it should act exactly like a ip.board search result - showing the tabs of the different areas so we can click thru and find matching content in those areas of the site as well. After all, that's why people take the time to tag stuff. To bring content together.
Amy T Posted February 4, 2011 Posted February 4, 2011 Weird take on this. A tag is a tag is a tag and should be used to pool all similar content together. If I take the time to click on a tag, I would certainly like to see a list showing me all content matching that tag. Just like a good vbulletin search provides. At VERY minimum, it should act exactly like a ip.board search result - showing the tabs of the different areas so we can click thru and find matching content in those areas of the site as well. After all, that's why people take the time to tag stuff. To bring content together. I agree maybe make it like the search on here where it has a tab for each section an when you click on a tag it will first show you the content of the section you are in with the other sections tabbed. I have seen other sites do some thing like that and it works very well.
LeadCrow Posted February 4, 2011 Posted February 4, 2011 A tag is a tag is a tag and should be used to pool all similar content together. If I take the time to click on a tag, I would certainly like to see a list showing me all content matching that tag. Tags could be later tied together across apps. It would be too soon for that as its IMO what has stalled this for so long (blog tags werent extended into board). Add tags for individual apps. When done, then we'll talk about the possibility of tying those together across the suite.
bfarber Posted February 4, 2011 Posted February 4, 2011 I'm afraid that is unlikely to happen, Leadcrow. We like to do things right the first time (at least to the extent possible). To implement a half-baked solution just to get something out the door, knowing full well we'll have to rewrite it later, is a waste of everyone's time and resources. :) Tags are high on our priority list, don't worry. And when we implement them, it will be in a fashion we think will provide the best possible functionality.
.Ian Posted February 6, 2011 Posted February 6, 2011 The problem with tags is that if a manual system, many people will simply not add them to posts.
Management Matt Posted February 6, 2011 Management Posted February 6, 2011 That is precisely why we don't want to make a half baked implementation. People rarely populate tags. The small minority that do generally "own" the tag space. So if I was the only one tagging my posts "beta" or whatever, then I would pretty much be the top result in any tag clouds or generic searches which makes the system pointless. What is more powerful is an optional 'closed' system where admins can either pre-define tags for users to select (and optionally enforce a selection) or where only admins / moderators can tag content. We (IPS) have discussed tagging a lot and we have a fair idea of how we want to proceed with it but like all things it takes a lot of time to get it done right. It's not something we're happy to throw in a point release or indeed any major release without ensuring we have enough time to do it properly.
SCS Posted February 6, 2011 Posted February 6, 2011 What is more powerful is an optional 'closed' system where admins can either pre-define tags for users to select (and optionally enforce a selection) or where only admins / moderators can tag content. I have made a Tag system for my board and that's similar to the way it works. Tags are created/managed only in the ACP. Authors is allowed to tag their own content with these existing tags, and I've also added a group setting to allow a user group to do it as well (Gmods and Admins are ON by default). About the use in other applications, I think a setting could be added for each tag (since it is likely to be one row in DB) to allow its use in other applications. The Tag system could even be exported to non-IPS applications, like the ' like' system. And of course, being integrated in the search system too.
LeadCrow Posted February 6, 2011 Posted February 6, 2011 The problem with tags is that if a manual system, many people will simply not add them to posts. That'd actually be a safety (against tag cloud poisoning) and much less ressource-wasting. So, autotags, no thanks.
Jυra Posted February 6, 2011 Posted February 6, 2011 CommunitySEO's tag add on show likely already existing tags as you were typing the tag to make it easier and faster.
SCS Posted February 6, 2011 Posted February 6, 2011 My suggestion for implementation:Create tag groups, for tags to share the same settings. Each tag group has a setting to specify in which applications the tags are visible/enabled. The tags can be used in non-IPS applications, like the current "like" system. Tags management (add/edit/delete) only in ACP. Tags are added/removed from content using AJAX. Tags are visible at the bottom/below each topic or post (IPB). Clicking on tag triggers the search system on the current application. Tags are included in the search for all supported applications (a new function could be added to the /extensions/search/engines/*.php files) A setting to enable/disable auto tagging. A setting to specify which user groups can tag content (IPB). A setting to allow/disallow authors to tag their content. :)
Management Matt Posted February 7, 2011 Management Posted February 7, 2011 I think this topic proves that as no one can really agree on the best "tagging" method that we're right to wait and make sure our implementation is as good as we can get it.
Jυra Posted February 7, 2011 Posted February 7, 2011 Tags are visible at the bottom/below each topic or post (IPB). Bottom so nobody can use them? No thanks.
Ikadon Posted February 7, 2011 Posted February 7, 2011 I think this topic proves that as no one can really agree on the best "tagging" method that we're right to wait and make sure our implementation is as good as we can get it. So, basically no tags before at least 3.3? (as it's a major feature) :(
SCS Posted February 7, 2011 Posted February 7, 2011 Bottom so nobody can use them? No thanks. Bottom = below the post control buttons (Edit, Delete, Quote, etc).
ZakRhyno Posted February 7, 2011 Posted February 7, 2011 I think this topic proves that as no one can really agree on the best "tagging" method that we're right to wait and make sure our implementation is as good as we can get it. Which mean, we still wait for many more months. *sigh*
Management Matt Posted February 7, 2011 Management Posted February 7, 2011 I never said anything about scheduling. I was merely reflecting that this topic serves as a good example of why we're biding our time with this feature. It might well make it in 3.2.0.
Ikadon Posted February 8, 2011 Posted February 8, 2011 I never said anything about scheduling. I was merely reflecting that this topic serves as a good example of why we're biding our time with this feature. It might well make it in 3.2.0. I think this topic proves that as no one can really agree on the best "tagging" method that [u]we're right to wait [/u]and make sure our implementation is as good as we can get it. For me this means "we ARE right to wait" or could it also mean "we were right to wait"? (english =! my mothertongue) It just sounds like you're gonna take your time which, to me, means tags won't make it into 3.2 as it's the next major step and as you already started blogging about it I guess it will come too soon to implement a tag-system you chose to wait for until you're fine with the implementation-plans.
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