Admin Access To PMs

[Guest]

PM's are only in the db for the sender if they mark "Add this to my sent items folder" when sending the message.

and unfortunately since ipb 2.0 this is set so as a default to not have it in the sent items box. :)

No they don't, and they never have. :blink:

he might mean that you could read it through the sql query section, that's far from pleasant though... :)

But PM Logs should be part of the package, I agree.

[Zoruglu]

Admin already have access to all PMs, and always have.

:)

No they don't, and they never have. :blink:

Yes they have, all you need to do is open phpmyadmin, and read them out of the tables in your database, or run a query in your adminCP...

Adding the feature of reading PMs is a big + for me... the only thing that really changes is that with such a feature and accessible to non-technical admins as well...

[Guest]

the only thing that really changes is that with such a feature and accessible to non-technical admins as well...

correct, but I don't really see a difference between logging emails and logging PMs... :unsure:

[Guest]

Yes they do, twice! They have it through the database toolkit in Admin CP, and they have it through phpMyAdmin.

:)

PMs are in the database twice, once for the sender, and once for the receiver, so both of them would need to delete their PMs for you not to find them.

Only if the sender chooses to track the message, or save a copy to their sent items folder. The majority of PM's sent probably don't have these options checked. ;)

[Stuart Elliott]

They're called Private Messages for a reason, stop being so bloody nozy, and give your members the privacy they expect.

[Guest]

Heh. We're not trying to be nosy. I would never read PM's just for the sake of reading them.

However, if I receive a report from a member that someone else is asking for warez copies of my software, or a report that someone is being abusive via PM. Am I supposed to just ban / punish people on the word of some other forum member? Especially if that forum member is particularly good at bending the truth?

Another scenario, what if your forum is aimed at children / teenagers. You offer support for personal problems or something. What happens if someone comes along and starts sending abusive or even sexual messages to one of the members? You'll have no way of finding out what was said, and without that you can't take any action against that user, be it at the administration level, or with the authorities.

I'd sooner have a method of finding PM's from member x to member y, and be sure that they are actually doing something wrong before I reprimand them for doing so.

Just because they're called private messages, doesn't mean they should be allowed to be used as a haven for un-checkable rule breaking.

[Stuart Elliott]

You DO have access if you're the admin, you have access to the ibf_message_text table, and can look at that as necessary.

The minute you create a simple way to read PMs you create a Pandora's Box which is very difficult to close, people are inherently nozy and WILL look when ever the mood takes them, needed or otherwise.

[Guest]

As we've already gone over though, the second the receiver removes the PM, all traces of the message are gone.

Unless of course our trouble maker decided to save a copy of the message for themselves.

[Antony]

You DO have access if you're the admin, you have access to the ibf_message_text table, and can look at that as necessary.

The minute you create a simple way to read PMs you create a Pandora's Box which is very difficult to close, people are inherently nozy and WILL look when ever the mood takes them, needed or otherwise.

I've had the privacy vs. control issue on various boards I run. As admins have access to any private messages sent via a database query, creating a user interface to let them view the information in their database isn't a violation of the privacy they have a right to expect. However, I dislike Dean's PM logging system (though I do admit to it being on a site I run, however I didn't install it) as it shows the last so many PMs, encouraging the admin to 'snoop' on an impulse from an interesting message title. It should only be possible to search for PMs by a specific user/title/keywords, so that admins don't look through messages on impulse but rather use the lookup facility to see what has been sent. I also agree that once a user has deleted a PM, there should be no way for an admin to recover it.

With regards to telling your members, I'll admit I've never shouted out the fact I've access to all my member's PMs. However, it is mentioned in the privacy policy on my site that all information transmitted is accessible by the administration.

[Strange_Will]

Simple enough.

As the root admin, I have full access, I don't give it to anyone else, all suspicious claims of abuse come to me, can't be many PM abuses in the system.

[• Jay •]

Yeah this would be a very useful feature. Currently with Dean's PM logs it's basically just duplicated information (really inefficient). I would like to see a built in PM logs system where if a PM is deleted it isn't deleted it's just in a "pending deletion" status. That way the admin can view PM's currently in circulation or PM's that were already deleted (so information isn't being duplicated).

As long as the "pending deletion" status also removes the PM from the member's quota so he's not penalized by still having a PM that he no longer has access to.

[Guest]

@jay: if you use ntd's pm logger it's an exact reflection of what's in your database, I personally use it on most of my sites (but only use it in the case of a member complaining about someone else, just for the sake of double checking).

Anyway I can highly recommend ntd's pm logger: I'm not saying that dean's mod is bad, but it has no extra tables like dean's mod, in fact it has all you need :)

[McQ]

The forum system I switched from (Groupee) had a "report this PM feature" which allowed users to forward abusive PMs (unedited) to the moderator/administrator.

Just an option to consider...

[theclub]

As we've already gone over though, the second the receiver removes the PM, all traces of the message are gone.

Unless of course our trouble maker decided to save a copy of the message for themselves.

l find this rather strange ... you say one of your members claims to be receiving abusive PMs but deletes them before you get a chance to see them. Sounds fishy to me. Are you sure you have a troublemaker sending them, and not a troublemaker falsely claiming to receive them?


:)

[lupin84]

I don't think individual situations should be the focus but it's whether the majority feel they would like easier access to PMs if they feel something fishy is going on. Personally, if it's on my board, that I pay to host I'd like to be alerted to that before too much damage is done.

I'm not technical and I can't go browsing the database for these things so quite simply I'd like a way to be able to keep track of the messages people are sending. I don't doubt there are people out there who will use that feature to read private messages for kicks but if they will they're probably already doing so in the database.

I don't have the time to read what mary-sue is doing with alice this weekend, and simply I don't have the interest but I would still like to know if a newbie signs up and starts using the PM system for advertising and have access to remove those messages myself.

[Sam A]

They're called Private Messages for a reason, stop being so bloody nozy, and give your members the privacy they expect.

They're called Personal Messages, actually.

[Guest]

l find this rather strange ... you say one of your members claims to be receiving abusive PMs but deletes them before you get a chance to see them. Sounds fishy to me. Are you sure you have a troublemaker sending them, and not a troublemaker falsely claiming to receive them?

:)

In that case, I'd like to at least know that they're not making it up before I reprimand them for causing trouble and making false accusations. :thumbsup:

[forums.bd]

Admin already have access to all PMs, and always have.

If this is implemented l'd like to see safeguards, like a message that shows up if admin turn the feature on, this would be in the member's CP and say something like,

"The Admin of this forum have the ability to read ALL personal messages and reserve the right to do so."

l'm not against this feature, as long as members are aware, it's the idea that people believe it to be private and say things to certain members they don't wish others, including admin, to know about.

Whilst some admin would use this feature properly, others won't.

:)

The only privacy you have left is in your head.
The emails you use, do they tell you "oh, we can read your emails if we want to."?
no.
but they can.

i'm sorry but i'd rather get rid of troublemakers from my forum before they create trouble for me by doing illegal activites on my board.

i'm hating some peoples 'holier than thou' attitude. if you are so concerned about privacy, please stop lecturing here and do something about your phones being tapped, or your net activity being logged and other real life big issues. no point enlightening us about petty forum PMs. thank you.

[Strange_Will]

While I try to respect my members privacy and freedom to speech (yes it's my board so what I want goes... but I still give them the privillage), I still should have easy access to search these PMs, I've had to before look at PMs in the database (Back when we had PHPBB), and faeces, if anything THAT invades privacy more because I have to SCAN all the PMs in a giant return query. :P

[• Jay •]

Arguments against making PM's easier to access are fairly shallow, imho.

PM's are already accessible by all admins via PhpMyAdmin or other MySQL tools, so those who wish to view them adversely will have no trouble doing so. By making the PM's more readily available in IPB itself, it makes the legitimate tasks of administrators easier to carry out.

By not having this feature built in, it's more likely that immoral administrators will have more control over their boards than fair-minded ones who would not want to add the modification out of fear of ignorant member reprisals that don't understand that the ability to read them already exists.

[theclub]

i'm sorry but i'd rather get rid of troublemakers from my forum before they create trouble for me by doing illegal activites on my board.

Then why are you having a go at my post? By warning members that all PMs can be read you are deterring troublemakers from posting.

i'm hating some peoples 'holier than thou' attitude. if you are so concerned about privacy, please stop lecturing here and do something about your phones being tapped, or your net activity being logged and other real life big issues. no point enlightening us about petty forum PMs. thank you.

You need to pull your head in mate, people here are doing exactly what this forum is here for, if you don't like it l suggest you stay away.


:)

[forums.bd]

THere's already something called "Email logs" in admincp,
why not just add "PM logs" in it?

supportersunited, look man, if there's a constant reminder like that, people will completely stop using PMs all right? even for legitimate reasons. like i said, every emails you've sent and deleted from your account still exists in your service providers servers.

do you get a constant or daily reminder from them they have the ability to retrieve and read your mails?? would you still be using it if you were reminded daily? (even if you're not doing anything illegal?) you can resort to old fashioned hand written mails, cuz i'm sure there are some evil adminstrators out there who are reading your mails as i write the message. but then there might be some other curious evil postal workers too who might open your envelope and read its content! ;)

you see most admins have better things to do. it is asked just to make forum safer for the owners and the users alike by filtering out bad ones.

the second part of my message you quoted, was not intended for you but you as in general. you took it personally, whereas i was referring to everyone.

[theclub]

What's your problem forums.bd? You're talking gobbledygook! You post such nonsense it's difficult to reply to you.

As to your last remark, that you were addressing everyone and not just me, is that supposed to appease me?

:)

[lupin84]

THere's already something called "Email logs" in admincp,
why not just add "PM logs" in it?

supportersunited, look man, if there's a constant reminder like that, people will completely stop using PMs all right? even for legitimate reasons. like i said, every emails you've sent and deleted from your account still exists in your service providers servers.

do you get a constant or daily reminder from them they have the ability to retrieve and read your mails?? would you still be using it if you were reminded daily? (even if you're not doing anything illegal?) you can resort to old fashioned hand written mails, cuz i'm sure there are some evil adminstrators out there who are reading your mails as i write the message. but then there might be some other curious evil postal workers too who might open your envelope and read its content! ;)

you see most admins have better things to do. it is asked just to make forum safer for the owners and the users alike by filtering out bad ones.

I know this wasn't for me but I just wanted to say that's a very good point, and I think a good counter-argument for those going on about privacy. ;)

[Sam A]

Even though I don't want the feature myself, it's clear to see a lot of people do as I'd say it's been one of the most requested features over the last 4 years, and as such it probably should be added.