Why Can't You Guys Keep This Simple?

[Rimi]

Ding.... Point in a nutshell.

Rimi... you are aware the only browser that site actually looks like it was coded to look is IE7?

both of them.

My point is that high quality sites still use outdated templates and no one really cares except elitist webdevelopers.

[Marcher Technologies]

My point is that high quality sites still use outdated templates and no one really cares except elitist webdevelopers.

... wait... so its completely acceptable to have a site completely broken in current browsers we all use?
Logic? :logik:

[Rimi]

... wait... so its completely acceptable to have a site completely broken in current browsers we all use?

Logic? :logik:

Can you explain how those two sites are broken?

[Marcher Technologies]

Can you explain how those two sites are broken?

very simply.
The layout completely changes based on browser version.
anything supporting HTML3 still....(......eeew) parses the page out as it was coded to look.
anything adhering to html4+ it looks quite... odd on, I actually had to go back to both on IE7 to see either site as it was designed to look.

[Rimi]

very simply.

The layout

I told you that my point is that these are high quality websites based on content not on visual appeal. Please stop bringing up things that have nothing to do with my argument...

[Marcher Technologies]

I told you that my point is that these are high quality websites based on content not on visual appeal. Please stop bringing up things that have nothing to do with my argument...

.... if the layout is so broken I cannot read the content, what good does the quality of it do?

[Rimi]

.... if the layout is so broken I cannot read the content, what good does the quality of it do?

I don't wish to give others the impression that we're having a heated debate so don't use italics. It'll get this thread locked.

Can you show me screenshots? I haven't seen a browser that doesn't display those pages correctly...and you're still not addressing my point of course. I'm being trolled.

[Marcher Technologies]

here is leafninja on my browser... kind of confused... as I said, I had to view the site in ie7 to actually see it was not a shambled mess.

[Rimi]

Wow what browser is that?? I regularly switch through chrome Firefox opera and three mobile browsers and have never seen that.

[Marcher Technologies]

Wow what browser is that?? I regularly switch through chrome Firefox opera and three mobile browsers and have never seen that.

Firefox 10.0.2....
from what i can tell upon inspection, their use of tables does not serve them well.

[Rimi]

My laptop has Firefox 10 and displays that page fine...I'll have to double check.

Aside from that what about how the site is supposed to look? That's fine IMO.

[KevinMc]

I, too, have known of Serebii for quite a long time now. That's because I like Pokemon though. :smile:

Personally, I think the design is terrible. I mean their version of vBulletin is...so...ancient. Their forums don't make use of any heavy mods so I'm thinking that the reason they don't want to upgrade is because of their existing skins. They're currently using vBulletin 3.8.4, which is the latest version before the latest major version; vBulletin 4.

EDIT: Damn, they must have heard you guys talking about their awful design and upgraded to vBulletin 4 right away! I swear, they must have upgraded their board within the past 2 days or so. Anyway, their custom skins were plain and ugly. And, to be honest, the default vBulletin looks much better than anything they've designed.

But, Remi is correct as far as Serebii goes. It is the number one source on the new for anything Pokemon related. So, in their case, yeah, no one cares about the way that site looks. Now, if they could only work on their main site. Unfortunately, they're not using any type of CMS for their main site...which means they probably won't redesign it any time soon. Most of what they have (if not all) on the main site is static content. I don't see any type of dynamic content being served up on there.

As far as the original poster's concern, yeah, it's something we need to live with. Development evolves so all the software using that evolved development needs to adapt to the changes. It's the inevitable. Sorry to break it to you, but I don't think you're going to find a reputable board software out there that doesn't adapt to the latest and greatest standards.

[Heyhoe]

It's all great when you have a huge member database and brilliant traffic and search engine rankings you have achieved over 10 years BUT

What happens when a competing site, with just as much content but new, fresh, extremely easy to use design appears. Who's going to stand the test of time then????

[Rimi]

Marcher, I don't know what's wrong with your browser.

I, too, have known of Serebii for quite a long time now. That's because I like Pokemon though. :smile:

Personally, I think the design is terrible. I mean their version of vBulletin is...so...ancient. Their forums don't make use of any heavy mods so I'm thinking that the reason they don't want to upgrade is because of their existing skins. They're currently using vBulletin 3.8.4, which is the latest version before the latest major version; vBulletin 4.

EDIT: Damn, they must have heard you guys talking about their awful design and upgraded to vBulletin 4 right away! I swear, they must have upgraded their board within the past 2 days or so. Anyway, their custom skins were plain and ugly. And, to be honest, the default vBulletin looks much better than anything they've designed.

But, Remi is correct as far as Serebii goes. It is the number one source on the new for anything Pokemon related. So, in their case, yeah, no one cares about the way that site looks. Now, if they could only work on their main site. Unfortunately, they're not using any type of CMS for their main site...which means they probably won't redesign it any time soon. Most of what they have (if not all) on the main site is static content. I don't see any type of dynamic content being served up on there.

As far as the original poster's concern, yeah, it's something we need to live with. Development evolves so all the software using that evolved development needs to adapt to the changes. It's the inevitable. Sorry to break it to you, but I don't think you're going to find a reputable board software out there that doesn't adapt to the latest and greatest standards.

lol, actually as I was making my posts yesterday they had a downtime message saying they were upgrading their forum. Their sidebars are dynamic...sort of..they use SSI it seems.

It's all great when you have a huge member database and brilliant traffic and search engine rankings you have achieved over 10 years BUT

What happens when a competing site, with just as much content but new, fresh, extremely easy to use design appears. Who's going to stand the test of time then????

That has happened. Serebii is still the best though, they always get the information first. The only valid competitor is bulbapedia and serebii still has the better Pokedex.

[Heyhoe]

That's true, because of the content.

But if somebody were to put the same effort in with a better design, It would succeed.

[Rimi]

That's true, because of the content.

But if somebody were to put the same effort in with a better design, It would succeed.

Again look at bulbapedia. Same content and arguably better design but serebii is more popular.

[Aiwa]

If you want your board to be timeless, don't upgrade... It's really that simple. Don't accept the new features that the web community as a whole are accustomed to. "status updates" are one of them. Who would have expected the impact social media would have on the internet as a whole.

As many others have said, don't complain when your content doesn't parse on newer browsers or isn't compatible with the latest versions of PHP, MySQL, javascript, HTML, etc. Be prepared to be running your own server with all of the 'old' versions of software you'll need to make your board work in 5-10 years.

[Stars25]

Again look at bulbapedia. Same content and arguably better design but serebii is more popular.

Your statement is just like saying the statement below a few years back when facebook was just beginning.

"Again, look at Facebook. Same content and arguably better design but MySpace is more popular."

Well look now, Facebook is more popular and MySpace is pretty much unheard of anymore.

[Rimi]

Your statement is just like saying the statement below a few years back when facebook was just beginning.

"Again, look at Facebook. Same content and arguably better design but MySpace is more popular."

Well look now, Facebook is more popular and MySpace is pretty much unheard of anymore.

Facebook doesn't have the same content at all...

Pokemon has been around for 16 years. For over 10 of those years serebii has been the number one site. Don't you think that of design was so important something else would have knocked off the giant that refuses to update its design? Even in your example MySpace wasn't established as long as Serebii. I don't see how an interface change can knock off a decade running giant.

[Marcher Technologies]

This topic started on the note of skin upgrades between IPB versions... frankly, it comes to this, which is a culmination of points.
IPB keeps up with the web... we use it for this reason among many... if we wanted outdated methods/code, we would not be using it... and would be using a certain V competitor... so frankly, the complaint being made is that IPB keeps up with web standards.... how is that a complaint and not a bravo?

[Rimi]

This topic started on the note of skin upgrades between IPB versions... frankly, it comes to this, which is a culmination of points.

IPB keeps up with the web... we use it for this reason among many... if we wanted outdated methods/code, we would not be using it... and would be using a certain V competitor... so frankly, the complaint being made is that IPB keeps up with web standards.... how is that a complaint and not a bravo?

Actually the topic became this because someone asked for a website that still uses tables.

[Marcher Technologies]

Actually the topic became this because someone asked for a website that still uses tables.

Ah.... *shudders* as a note... this site here uses tables, so someone is not paying attention... :turned:

[Rimi]

Ah.... *shudders* as a note... this site here uses tables, so someone is not paying attention... :turned:

I think he meant for the entire layout like sidebars and headers and stuff.

[Heyhoe]

For an individual website, your argument is somewhat valid. Although I would say it comes down to much more than design to the websites success in the first place. Otherwise what you are saying is that site is successful because of it's design, which I really really doubt.

But for a software such as this, well, it would just make no sense what so ever. :)

[Jυra]

If you want your board to be timeless, don't upgrade... It's really that simple. Don't accept the new features that the web community as a whole are accustomed to. "status updates" are one of them. Who would have expected the impact social media would have on the internet as a whole.

As many others have said, don't complain when your content doesn't parse on newer browsers or isn't compatible with the latest versions of PHP, MySQL, javascript, HTML, etc. Be prepared to be running your own server with all of the 'old' versions of software you'll need to make your board work in 5-10 years.

Originally we were talking about the board layout design and I don't think anyone here is opposed to new features and fixes. Feature and compatibility changes happen, but that doesn't mean it's fine to be inconsiderate. Changing stuff just be new because it's new or because something wasn't thought out well isn't good design.

Breaking skins isn't appreciated for some people who run boards and it's not fun for the forum's users if it's a design they liked. There are also likely people who do stop upgrading and I know there was a period of time before I went from 3.1 to 3.2 but I was loyal enough (among other reasons) to keep my license active.