Wouldn't it be better if the sidebar images used gif transparency as opposed to png transparency? It would be compatible in IE this way. No need for any png hacks as well. I see this as a good idea unless the purpose of the new layout is for it to have the traditional architecture easily customized by edits within the CSS.

GIF's are ugly. And if we all start using PNG images, it will tell the people that still use IE2 to upgrade.


Why should the majority of internet users be punished with crappy looking images, just because a select few people dont know how to upgrade their browser, just why?

lol, you want people to come to your site or not?

gif or png makes no difference on a 12x12 image

I don't, people that use old browsers on my site, thats like .3% I can live without them until they upgrade.

gif or png makes no difference on a 12x12 image

Only if you put a background on the GIF, making changing the colors a huge hassle.

GIF's are ugly. And if we all start using PNG images, it will tell the people that still use IE2 to upgrade.

Why should the majority of internet users be punished with crappy looking images, just because a select few people dont know how to upgrade their browser, just why?

Your argument is accurate, I think people that don't upgrade are retards, but it's not practical because old browsers like IE6 will most likely be around for another 2-3 years +. But there isn't a single major site that has completely dropped ie6 support yet. My personal view is to carry on supporting these browsers especially as neally 20% of internet users still use IE6.

Nearly 85% of all statistics are wrong.

In this case, I'm glad they went with all PNGs.

Nearly 85% of all statistics are wrong.

In this case, I'm glad they went with all PNGs.

As am I.

PNGs offer an immense amount of flexibility and not only make things much prettier, but also much quicker and easier to actually create. This is a great step forward, and in general is one that has been a long time coming.

Nearly 85% of all statistics are wrong.

In this case, I'm glad they went with all PNGs.

I assure you that your guesstimate is wrong. At least 25% to 40% of internet users have IE as their browsers. (Includes IE7 and IE6 together) Neither of these support PNG transparency without hacks. You should understand that not all forum users tend to be tech savvy as you. There are many types of forums, and some cater to people who only know the basics in computing. From a business perspective, it would be unwise for IPB to neglect a good portion of their market. Assuming that they plan on using this skin as the default skin, it would not be much of a hassle to have GIF transparency with a white matte considering that the current background is white.

Image sets are usually replaced upon varying skins which is one of the primary reasons why using this alternative method (gif) is not a bad idea. Unless IPB is planning on having some sort of online application which automatically generates skins based on color-scales (something I mentioned in the monotone-change thread), then I see the use of PNG in this particular area a setback for current IE users.

I am not particularly applying bias here as I am primarily a FF user. I am merely speaking on the perspective of browser statistics coupled with marketing.

I assure you that your guesstimate is wrong. At least 25% to 40% of internet users have IE as their browsers. (Includes IE7 and IE6 together) Neither of these support PNG transparency without hacks.

IE7 does support transparent PNGs without hacks, IE6 doesn't.

I assure you that your guesstimate is wrong.

That was the point of my guesstimate ;)

At least 25% to 40% of internet users have IE as their browsers. (Includes IE7 and IE6 together) Neither of these support PNG transparency without hacks.

IE7 supports transparent PNG images without 'hacks'.

... I see the use of PNG in this particular area a setback for current IE users

Only IE6 users.

I'm aware that IE6 still plays a significant role (albeit a very small one). I'm also aware that it's (nearly) eight years old and there are an infinite amount of alternative browsers, including two in it's own product line. Do you know how much the web can change in eight years? It's unrealistic to demand that a product like IPB, with such a huge user base (and as such a huge browser base) to break standards and take a step back in it's own software to fully accommodate IE6. Have you tried browsing the internet in IE6 lately? It's fair to say that users of IE6 expect differences in the page rendering while using their browser.

As long as IPB is fully functional within IE6 I don't see how we have anything to complain about. Little squares around transparent PNGs isn't going to kill users and if anything it will motivate them to upgrade their browser if possible (I realize a portion of IE6 users simply can't due to it being in the workplace or other restrictive circumstances). The web is changing constantly and can't be held back by the devices that are used to access it, at least not by ones reaching eight years old ;)

[edit] At any rate, 2.3 had a mixture of both transparent GIF and PNG images. It included a JS fix for IE6 (but was disabled by default). I'm not aware of Rikki or any other staff saying whether that same fix or one akin to it will be included in IPB3 or not.

There is a way to get png's to show up correctly on older version of IE its a css command. Although I do not know it off the top of my head I know another script that uses it.

We have stated numerous times that the final release should be functional in IE6, however it will *not* look identical to more modern browsers. This is one such case. We support IE7+ and IE7 supports transparent PNGs. Given the benefits of using PNGs, we're moving forward. IE6 users will have to work with the edges, which won't affect actual functionality of the site of course.

There are javascript commands out there that you can add to your site if you feel that IE6 PNG transparency is a requisite for your site. It wouldn't be hard for you to do at all. Again, though, we don't intend to add such "hacks" into the base product line to support a non-essential feature in an 8 year old browser.

you dont even know if IE8 wont bug up again ;)

Edit: also why cant you use background color on transparent gif's?

Edit: also why cant you use background color on transparent gif's?

Then it would not be transparent...

Then it would not be transparent...

wtf are you talking about LOL, someone educate me !! transparent gif will have transparent areas and non-transparent areas. If you mean the edges wont ahev clear outlines then you should use vector graphics or use photoshop to remove the jagged edges

PNGs have many benefits which we're not going to get into here. We're using PNGs. We have no intentions of reverting graphics back to gifs I'm afraid.