How to limit renewals and subscriptions?

[Verto]

Hello.

I am setting up a product for sale in the site shop, with a monthly subscription, as it is an online course. But I can't find a way to limit the number of renewals. My course has a duration of five months, and I would like to charge for the subscription to the course for only five months, but the only option I can find is for the user to cancel the subscription at the end of the course, which seems to me to be an abuse of the customer. Could you tell me how to limit product renewals and subscriptions?

Thanks and best regards

[Jim M]

Unfortunately, renewals do not have term limits. It may be best to charge a flat fee for your course so that you can reach your define space/price.

[Verto]

First of all, thank you for your reply and your interest in helping me. I appreciate it.

It is a pity that something so important is limited. A subscription is a bit like having the keys to the customer's bank account, and for that reason it should be limited. Personally, I would not subscribe to any service that is not clearly time-limited and defined in its features.

Is there any way to set limitations, through a third party application, even if I had to do it myself?

The idea of the subscription was so that customers could pay monthly in instalments and not have to pay the more than a thousand euros that the course costs, all at once.

Edited March 29 by Verto

[Jim M]

8 minutes ago, Verto said:

Personally, I would not subscribe to any service that is not clearly time-limited and defined in its features.

Indefinite subscriptions, fortunately or unfortunately, have always been a way of life. If you ever have owned/rented space, you have had an indefinite subscription in the space itself, utility bills, etc... 🙂 . Even your license with us is an indefinite subscription in a way because without it, you don't get the services you want.

11 minutes ago, Verto said:

The idea of the subscription was so that customers could pay monthly in instalments and not have to pay the more than a thousand euros that the course costs, all at once.

Think this clarifies what you want here and "installment" payments are not something we offer. You can certainly suggest this though in our Feedback forum.

[Verto]

Forgive me if I don't express myself well, but I use a translator to communicate. I am not looking for a hire-purchase solution. Rather, I am looking for a limit on the number of renewals of a product for sale.

I don't know what the commercial regulations are like in your country, but in my country, when you sign up for a subscription, rental, etc., there is an obligation to set a contractual limit on the duration of the contract.

[opentype]

Quote

 I am looking for a limit on the number of renewals of a product for sale.

Simple answer: It is not possible. 

Quote

when you sign up for a subscription, rental, etc., there is an obligation to set a contractual limit on the duration of the contract.

That is not true. Subscriptions run until they are cancelled – by definition – and that is possible in every country of the world – just as with the given example of “paying rent for an undefined time until one side cancels”. 

What you are asking for to achieve a “5 month course” is NOT a subscription. It’s single purchase of a course, which grants access to something for a limited time. 
You also want to spread out the payments, but that is a payment option and INDEPENDENT from the product type itself. And it also not possible with the Invision Community software. 

[Verto]

 

1 hour ago, opentype said:

That is not true. Subscriptions run until they are cancelled – by definition – and that is possible in every country of the world – just as with the given example of “paying rent for an undefined time until one side cancels”. 

What you are asking for to achieve a “5 month course” is NOT a subscription. It’s single purchase of a course, which grants access to something for a limited time. 
You also want to spread out the payments, but that is a payment option and INDEPENDENT from the product type itself. And it also not possible with the Invision Community software. 

No Sir. That is not true. Throughout Europe you rent a property for a defined contractual period, and then pay month-to-month rent. No one would think of putting a tenant indefinitely in their property. Similarly, and to give another example that is well known to everyone, when you subscribe to a licence for Adobe, you do so for periods of one year, and then pay month-to-month for the subscription. And if you cancel early, Adobe charges the proportional part that remains to complete the contracted time. That's what contracts are for; to secure the interest of the parties.

Edited March 29 by Verto

[Randy Calvert]

We might as well cut to the chase and skip the examples. I can give other examples of not expiring subscriptions such as Netflix or my cable bill. It does not matter ultimately. What you are wanting to do is not possible with the software. You will either need to change your model, hire a 3rd party resource provider to create the functionality, or use a different solution. 

Edited March 29 by Randy Calvert

[Verto]

For the sake of clarity. Any contract for the provision of services that you conclude in Europe has a legal obligation to define the duration and characteristics of the contract. That is a fundamental obligation of commercial law.

It is another thing if you want to establish the duration of the contract for an indefinite period of time, which is also possible and there is no legal impediment to do so. But it is NOT AN OBLIGATION, the obligation, on the contrary, is that the duration of the contract is stipulated.

And for the rest, I leave the matter here, because it was not my intention to discuss my motives for asking the question.

Best regards

Edited March 29 by Verto

[opentype]

9 hours ago, Verto said:

 

No Sir. That is not true. Throughout Europe you rent a property for a defined contractual period, and then pay month-to-month rent. No one would think of putting a tenant indefinitely in their property. Similarly, and to give another example that is well known to everyone, when you subscribe to a licence for Adobe, you do so for periods of one year, and then pay month-to-month for the subscription. And if you cancel early, Adobe charges the proportional part that remains to complete the contracted time. That's what contracts are for; to secure the interest of the parties.

None of these examples prove your point – they prove my point. Yes, a subscription has a default amount of time it lasts until in renews. Adobe has monthly subscriptions and yearly subscriptions. But both of them run INDEFINITELY unless they are cancelled. Show me the offer from Adobe where you can buy just "5 months” or “5 years” and then the subscription does not renew anymore. It does not exist, because that is not how subscriptions work. Yet, that is what you want and what you are falsely claiming is even necessary. 

I am sorry, but you misrepresent the facts around subscription in order to demand a feature you would like to see. That never works. 

Edited March 30 by opentype

[Verto]

On 3/30/2024 at 7:04 AM, opentype said:

None of these examples prove your point – they prove my point. Yes, a subscription has a default amount of time it lasts until in renews. Adobe has monthly subscriptions and yearly subscriptions. But both of them run INDEFINITELY unless they are cancelled. Show me the offer from Adobe where you can buy just "5 months” or “5 years” and then the subscription does not renew anymore. It does not exist, because that is not how subscriptions work. Yet, that is what you want and what you are falsely claiming is even necessary. 

I am sorry, but you misrepresent the facts around subscription in order to demand a feature you would like to see. That never works. 

Dear Sir, I sincerely congratulate you on your good professional work, but frankly, your personal treatment of customers leaves something to be desired.

Just to clarify. I am not demanding anything nor did I open this topic to demand anything, neither from IPS nor from you. I simply asked how the subscription could be limited, and after the negative response, I commented that I thought it was a pity that it could not be limited. All the rest of this unpleasant discussion has been added by you, I don't know why.

So, there you go with your bitter arguments, and I'll find my own life in other places where there are nicer people.

Translated with DeepL.com (free version)

[Jim M]

21 minutes ago, Verto said:

Dear Sir, I sincerely congratulate you on your good professional work, but frankly, your personal treatment of customers leaves something to be desired.

Opentype is a client, not a staff member of Invision.

[Verto]

Hace 3 horas, Jim M dijo:

Opentype es un cliente, no un miembro del personal de Invision.

Yes, thank you. I know, but I wasn't just referring to IPS customers, I was referring to Opentype customers, who are obviously also IPS customers.

I am a customer of ALL the products Opentype has for sale on their website. That's why I said that I think their work is excellent, but their treatment of customers is regrettable.

[Marc]

There appears to be confusion here in definitions, and I feel you may actually be trying to solve an issue that isnt present for you. Let me explain.

You are asking for something whereby it cancels after x time automatically. Automatic cancellation or expiry is not a feature of the platform at the present time.

In terms of what you are saying there, I understand the analogy, however the analogy is incorrect. You are confusing contracts (obligation to pay) with automation (It automatically renews).

There is no obligation to pay from the point of view of the way the software is built. A customer can log in and cancel their subscription at any point, should you give the ability to do so. What it will do

• Automatically generate an invoice for the next period
• Automatically take payment, if you have the system set up in a manner to do so

If you don't have the system set up to store payment details, then of course payment would not automatically be taken. So if you set up, for example, stripe card payments and dont select to allow customers to save payment methods, this is what would happen.

1. End of the period approaches for a customers subscription
2. Invoice is generated by the system
3. Customer chooses not to pay that invoice
4. Invoice simply expires, and the subscription also then expires

In your example on rental, the same is also true. If you come to the end of your 5 year rental agreement, in most cases there would either be a new agreement put in place, or if unpaid it would simply come to an end. There does tend to be a notice period added to peoples agreements in these cases, and in terms of a rental there is also still a contract in a lot of countries if you are still living there and you dont leave (the contract would be implied by action), but thats a different story. The point is, a subscription and a contract are not the same thing in any way. A subscription is simply paying for something in advance of a service you receive, which may or may not have a contractual period. These do however tend to be ongoing