Feature Request: points system

[sergiu]

Hi
I start using Invision software since the beginning of 2006, moving from phpbb.At that moment phpbb offering a very helpful point system for attachment view/download. From my point of view a tool like this will help/force users to contribute to the board success by reducing the bandwidth consumption and also to increase the interest of the users to post on the board (not only to read and to download the content or the files).
My board is completely free to use (require authentication) but the users like just to use all the features without any contribution. I don't like to request payments for use but they must understand that they also contribute with their knowledge when they can. I already pay some consultants to help my users but I will stop that because is not fair to me!

I searched 4 years a method to have this feature on my board without success. There is an iPoints system modd but since is not IPB official I have some reserve to use it. I tried this but after implementation I found that at the first upgrade this screw up my board and I've been forced to use my backup to rebuild my board :D and believe me I don't want to experiment again.

So can Invision include a feature like this in the next versions ?
I will give the technical aspects of this tool now .
-Ability of the system to reward the users with "points" for new topic, reply , upload a file to download system or in a post , upload photos on gallery , posting on the blog, etc.
-users can receive or donate points from other users. also can receive points if their message was helpful
-users can buy points via subscription manager that IPB already have
-the points can be used to "pay" for download files/pictures , to pay for move their account to another group that have the access on restricted forums.


Any idea or contributions will be helpful !

[Mat Barrie]

Not this again...

This one's been debated in excruciating detail, once a year or so. Points systems aren't really core features of forum software -and being that IP.Board is forum software, we'd much rather IPS focus their efforts on making excellent forum software. Leave it to the modders to deal with things like points systems and so forth. It's also rather offensive that you say you have reservations about 3rd party systems simply because they aren't IPS - the majority of the modders do excellent jobs and have top notch support.

[Mark]

My reservation against a point system has always been that points don't do anything - you could just use the post count.

However, your idea to integrate with the subscriptions manager is very interesting... is this something people would really do though? I'm trying to think of a situation where you would give products away for the sake of posting. The only use I can think of is member group promotion - but we have promote on x posts already.



But I do agree with Mat, that third-party mods shouldn't be discarded just because they're not made by IPS. bfarber, Michael and I have all released mods before we became developers here - our work doesn't magically become better now we wear the IPS badge ;)

[Bryan Sammers]

-Ability of the system to reward the users with "points"

[sergiu]

thanks for answers.
good point of view...all. some parts of the system I request already exist but they must be connected together somehow. reputation system can be improve with some of my points.
I'm not afraid about 3'rd party mods but some of they are dangerous if are not properly coded or if they are discontinued. after all the safety is one of the reasons I'm using IPB :)

My reservation against a point system has always been that points don't do anything - you could just use the post count.

Mark you are right but the user can trade his contribution on the board (and after all the post count represent his contribution to the benefit of all). An automatically tool will help admins to reward contributors in many other ways than to move to another group (and can do that more precise than the admin can set in the group rights)

[Wolfie]

I searched 4 years a method to have this feature on my board without success. There is an iPoints system modd but since is not IPB official I have some reserve to use it. I tried this but after implementation I found that at the first upgrade this screw up my board and I've been forced to use my backup to rebuild my board :D and believe me I don't want to experiment again.

So can Invision include a feature like this in the next versions ?

I will give the technical aspects of this tool now .

-Ability of the system to reward the users with "points" for new topic, reply , upload a file to download system or in a post , upload photos on gallery , posting on the blog, etc.

-users can receive or donate points from other users. also can receive points if their message was helpful

-users can buy points via subscription manager that IPB already have

-the points can be used to "pay" for download files/pictures , to pay for move their account to another group that have the access on restricted forums.

The iPoints that you refer to (by -Calypso- I believe) is reliable. -Calypso- has been around for awhile and puts out one of the more (if not MOST) popular point systems for IP.Board. I think there is a 'store' for using points, where members can do things like upgrade their membership, etc.

Something to keep in mind though is that a points system is mainly used for boards that are game-based (like RPG's or have an arcade installed, etc). Not really ideal for business deployment nor for most admins that want to run a standard forums board.

Don't get me wrong, I like having a points system, because then when there is finally an arcade available (a couple of primary arcade developer sites have been slacking but Andy/Collin should have one out soon) then a point system could be used for the privilege of playing games or could even be used as 'credits' when playing certain games, like casinos.

:)

[Tanax]

Something to keep in mind though is that a points system is mainly used for boards that are game-based (like RPG's or have an arcade installed, etc). Not really ideal for business deployment nor for most admins that want to run a standard forums board.

That's not true. It can be used for several business deployments such as stock forums as a sort of "currency".
A point system is NOT mainly used for game-based boards.

[Wolfie]

That's not true. It can be used for several business deployments such as stock forums as a sort of "currency".

A point system is NOT mainly used for game-based boards.

I said "mainly" not "solely". If you were to go and compare all of the boards that use some sort of a points system (IPB, vB, etc), I'm certain that a majority of them will be for some sort of a games based arrangement as opposed to something else.

[Tanax]

I said "mainly" not "solely". If you were to go and compare all of the boards that use some sort of a points system (IPB, vB, etc), I'm certain that a majority of them will be for some sort of a games based arrangement as opposed to something else.

Yes, and I said "they are not mainly used".. not "they are not solely used".

Perhaps, but if I quote you again:

Something to keep in mind though is that a points system is mainly used for boards that are game-based

You said that a "points system is mainly used FOR boards".. not "points system is mainly used BY boards". If you would've said by boards, I would've agreed perhaps, because perhaps RPG-boards are the majority that uses a point system. But the point system itself is not mainly used FOR game-boards. It can be used for any type of implementation as currency, points, exp(game-boards mostly use this, but experience points are not limited to game-boards), etc.

[Mat Barrie]

Tanax, I think you misinterpreted the intent of his statement. I personally read it as meaning what you say you would have agreed with. You're being way too pedantic here.

Also, find me one business deployment using a points system, since you claim they exist.

[Wolfie]

Perhaps, but if I quote you again:

You said that a "points system is mainly used FOR boards".. not "points system is mainly used BY boards". If you would've said by boards, I would've agreed perhaps, because perhaps RPG-boards are the majority that uses a point system. But the point system itself is not mainly used FOR game-boards. It can be used for any type of implementation as currency, points, exp(game-boards mostly use this, but experience points are not limited to game-boards), etc.

Look at some of the features that most points systems offer. They are designed with gaming in mind. As for the choice of words, for/by/on/etc can all mean the same thing. I've seen some boards that have been modified heavily to become more RPG style than discussion based and make extensive use of a points sytem. I've also seen some that offer a few games to play and support a points system (and some that don't use a points system). Have yet to see a points system in place on a site that doesn't offer games, although I have no doubt that they exist.

Point being that more times than not, a points system is used (for/on/by/with) boards that have some sort of connection, affiliation, concept or other attachment to/with games/gaming.

If used properly, a points system could actually be used for purchasing products/services. Person pays money, they get points. But no points for posts/replies made, etc. But then they can purchase additional member features/functions such as more gallery privs, download privs, etc.

There's really no limit to what a points system can be used for, it's just that most often, it's for something game/entertainment related instead of a business application.

[Tanax]

Tanax, I think you misinterpreted the intent of his statement. I personally read it as meaning what you say you would have agreed with. You're being way too pedantic here.

Also, find me one business deployment using a points system, since you claim they exist.

I didn't claim they existed. I never said I knew any actual website that has that.
I simply said that points system is not limited to game-boards and that it can just as easially be used for business deployment kind of forums such as stock marketing forums.

But the point system itself is not mainly used FOR game-boards. It can be used for any type of implementation as currency, points, exp(game-boards mostly use this, but experience points are not limited to game-boards), etc.

That's not true. It can be used for several business deployments such as stock forums as a sort of "currency".

A point system is NOT mainly used for game-based boards.

Note the word CAN. I never said that I knew of any site that actually HAS it. :P

If used properly, a points system could actually be used for purchasing products/services. Person pays money, they get points. But no points for posts/replies made, etc. But then they can purchase additional member features/functions such as more gallery privs, download privs, etc.

There's really no limit to what a points system can be used for, it's just that most often, it's for something game/entertainment related instead of a business application.

This is what my point was :)
I'm just trying to get across the message that the points system is not limited to gaming-boards just because the modification iPoints(or other) has been used foremost by gaming-boards. By your first message(the one I started quoting that started this discussion) I thought that you did not see any other use for the feature than for gaming-boards whereas I would see many features for it.

I'm thinking about starting a music-forum. I could implement it as a currency and let people release songs they've made, people can listen to a preview and if they like it, they can buy the song from the author with points. Points can be bought via a subscription and if I take some provision this system can help me pay the costs of having the forum.

So this feature definitely got a YES from me. It would have to be implemented and customizable very good though.

[Wolfie]

Something to keep in mind though is that a points system is mainly used for boards that are game-based (like RPG's or have an arcade installed, etc). Not really ideal for business deployment nor for most admins that want to run a standard forums board.

That's not true. It can be used for several business deployments such as stock forums as a sort of "currency".

A point system is NOT mainly used for game-based boards.

I simply said that points system is not limited to game-boards and that it can just as easially be used for business deployment kind of forums such as stock marketing forums.

I never said it was limited to game-boards. I said that it is used MAINLY for game-boards, because those running those boards use it for the reason of gaming.

I think you are mis-reading what is being said.

The system itself is put in use for boards (downloaded and installed by the owner of the site) that are game related. I didn't say that the point system is designed solely(only) for game based boards.

You're basically disagreeing with me to argue a point that no one was denying in the first place. Someone could request that IPB create it's own little Instant Messenger, where people can talk to one another (much like MySpace and FaceBook do now) and yeah, there *could* be business applications to its use but that's something better off as a mod/add-on. IPS could add lots of itty bitty features that *could* have business uses to them, but under most circumstances wouldn't get used much except by a hobbyists and such. Just about any feature could arguably have a business use applied to it when you think about it.

So no one is saying that a points system doesn't have the potential. I only stated that it's primary use so far has been on game related boards.

[Michael]

As others have stated, this comes up every so often. Some are very passionate that such a feature is needed. Most are just as passionate that such functionality is better suited as a mod since most sites will have no use for it.

Believe me, it's been discussed before. This is almost certainly something that will never be included in the base product. It is simply not going to be useful for most sites.

[Tanax]

You're basically disagreeing with me to argue a point that no one was denying in the first place.

I'm not disagreeing with you. Now that I know that you think this idea can be good for several purposes it's all good.
I just wanted to make sure you didn't think it was limited to gaming-boards. :P

Anyway, now that we've got that out of the way and know that its primary use has been gaming-boards in the past, I still think it's a good idea since it can be used for more than just that.

[Wolfie]

I'm not disagreeing with you. Now that I know that you think this idea can be good for several purposes it's all good.

I just wanted to make sure you didn't think it was limited to gaming-boards. :P

Anyway, now that we've got that out of the way and know that its primary use has been gaming-boards in the past, I still think it's a good idea since it can be used for more than just that.

With the way it's designed, it's actually made more for the purpose of game boards. It *can* be used for other purposes, but that actually takes effort.

The most I could see asking for as a core/preincluded points system would be something along the lines of having a "account balance", but that would be near useless unless the ip.subscription can be modified to charge credits to that balance and there being some way of using that balance for things, such as in a shop. But it would be such a small inclusion that it's pointless to even do it. Only true benefit would be an 'official' currency table for mods to make use of.

[sergiu]

As others have stated, this comes up every so often. Some are very passionate that such a feature is needed. Most are just as passionate that such functionality is better suited as a mod since most sites will have no use for it.

Believe me, it's been discussed before. This is almost certainly something that will never be included in the base product. It is simply not going to be useful for most sites.

Michael,
The benefit of a points system is that you can trade the "goods" of the board (but don't confuse this with an online shop) and that can be useful for all users and owners of IP boards :).Combined with the rest of the apps or content system this method to reward user will help us to improve our websites and to offer good content for free use without any abuse. Just imagine that you can combine this with IP Content or Blog and users who will write articles can be automatically rewarded in different ways.
By having a point tool official will be very easy next to develop different mods for this in the future. Calypso did a great work with the iPoints but alone he can't do all the stuff, to ensure the support and to be sure this tool will be compatible with next versions of IPB. Inside of the IPB core will be a totally different thing.

Guys, I want thank you for ideas and contribution to this discussion. Any other other ideas can really help :) .

[Mark]

If it can be used for something I quite like the idea, I think the term "points" is what throws people off.

Now something like account credit in the subscriptions manager... that has a purpose, and is essentially the same thing, just with a posh name :)
(I'm just thinking out loud here)

[Mat Barrie]

The benefit of a points system is that you can trade the "goods" of the board (but don't confuse this with an online shop) and that can be useful for all users and owners of IP boards [img]

[/img].Combined with the rest of the apps or content system this method to reward user will help us to improve our websites and to offer good content for free use without any abuse. Just imagine that you can combine this with IP Content or Blog and users who will write articles can be automatically rewarded in different ways.

Stop claiming that. You cannot assert that a points system will be useful for all board owners. I can disprove that point in less than a second by saying that I could find no use for it on my installation, for example.

By having a point tool official will be very easy next to develop different mods for this in the future. Calypso did a great work with the iPoints but alone he can't do all the stuff, to ensure the support and to be sure this tool will be compatible with next versions of IPB. Inside of the IPB core will be a totally different thing.

It's already very easy to develop mods for points systems. There's pretty much one dominant one, so almost everyone makes their mods for it. Stop insisting that it must be official to be worth anything - -Calypso- has done a most excellent job of keeping up with IPB releases to ensure iPoints works. It's not my cup of tea (or in my case, ridiculously expensive coffee), but I can't say there's ever been an IPB release where iPoints hasn't been updated and tested for it in less than a couple of weeks. And another thing, a lot of us don't want points systems in the IPB core. The IPB core is already a freaking 20MB upload. Stuff like points systems are not the job of the core of a forum system.

[sergiu]

Mat,
We can start a poll to see it the peoples who read this topic like the idea and your point about the core size is funny :). even one like me use more than 150mb for mysql database and ~50gb for entire board ...so the core size is like a massage to a wood foot for me :D (and I can bet for 90% of IPB boards also).
Like Mark said, maybe "points" system is not the best name. Maybe we don't need a separate app or mod but just some changes/improvements on subscriptions system.

[Mat Barrie]

I'm going to save time, and just let the four year old argument handle it from here.

We can debate on autopilot ;)

You be Septerra, and I'll be... er, me.

[url="

Don't - for the love of all that's holy - post in that thread.

[sergiu]

ohhh....sorry. it seems you are strongly against a system like this since 2006 :). if you will continue to look in the mirror you will see just your personal opinion and from a time will not see the rest. please read also the positive comments from that thread !
you are against, ok, but don't start a flame from this. let wait and for other opinions and to use the positive ideas :)
peace :thumbsup:

[Michael]

The important thing to note from Mat's mentioning of that old topic is that the issue of adding a points system to the core product has been discussed for over three years now, and it's still not been done. That's because the people who are very adamant that it should be added aren't getting the fact that they only want it for themselves, and it's not something that works for enough sites to be something beneficial to add into the product.

Good, stable mods exist for this feature. If you need a points system, use one of those mods.

[Wolfie]

The most I could see asking for as a core/preincluded points system would be something along the lines of having a "account balance", but that would be near useless unless the ip.subscription can be modified to charge credits to that balance and there being some way of using that balance for things, such as in a shop. But it would be such a small inclusion that it's pointless to even do it. Only true benefit would be an 'official' currency table for mods to make use of.

Now something like account credit in the subscriptions manager... that has a purpose, and is essentially the same thing, just with a posh name :)

(I'm just thinking out loud here)

Precisely. Sort of how some sites do with currency, where you can add to your "in site" balance, ala PayPal, then spend it later. NameCheap does this actually. You charge up your account and then use your account balance to pay for the services. Could be useful with IP.Subscriptions so a member can opt to renew their package, drawing only from their account balance. Likewise, add-ons such as shops (like those who sell skins) could draw from that balance as well.

Benefit to a points system is that the system could offer to convert the real currency to points (still be a separate value). End result is that it still wouldn't be a built in points system.

[ikillbill]

See how popular of ipoint module is?
and also see how LITTLE IPB's reputation system is used?

you know the answer...

currency idea give a LOT of flexibility for board owners