Help me understand this licence renewal stuff

[Maxxius]

My friend recently told me about his experience when renewing his ALL IPS product licences.

He bought all the addons and the forum itself back in january 2012. it expired after half a year. in december 2012 he renewed all that for 105 dollars and briefly he got access to the software updates. then all of the sudden it was blocked. he opened a ticket. after explaining the situation this was the answer he got.

I'm sorry for the confusion. When you reactivated in December, you were
catching up the current period that had lapsed in July. This means, your
license still expired in January and did not extend six months from when
you paid.

We've recently made this more clear, so as a courtesy, I've gone ahead
and reactivated your purchases with six months from the date of payment,
which means you're good until July. Please keep in mind, in the future,
that your renewals are based on six months from expiration, not six
months from last payment.

Thank you for your business!

He reactivated the access. that's nice but what the??? I plan to renew my IPB licence too but mine was expired for much longer then his.

Does that mean that I must pay around 75 bucks to get my FORUM licence back on track because last time I renewed was 16 March 2011?????

In that past time I got no new versions, I got no support then why I should pay as if I did???

What if I want to renrew my addons (I have all but one)? How much money would that amount to? If thats the case I can wait for some more time and I can buy an entirely new licence AND save money rather then upgrade.

Please somebody explain this nonsense to me. I hope I am wrong.

[Lindy]

Sorry for the confusion. We've made some recent changes to make this more clear and simple. I will try to explain using two different scenarios.

Scenario 1

IPS Community Suite (Expired 2010)

-- IP.Board

-- IP.Blog

In this scenario, your entire suite is expired and has been since 2010. To RENEW, you would pay $35 ($25 : IP.Board + $10 : IP.Blog)

Scenario 2

IPS Community Suite (Expires February 27, 2013)

-- IP.Board (Active)

-- IP.Blog (Canceled)

In this scenario, you wish to REACTIVATE IP.Blog. You do so and are charged $10. Your parent / suite license still expires February 27, 2013. You are merely reactivating/catching up IP.Blog to the rest of the suite and not extending it by six months. It is done this way because if we were to prorate, one could simply wait until 1 day before the suite expires and pay $.50 to regain access to downloads. :smile:

In short: If your suite license is active, you are paying to reactivate addons. If it is expired, you are renewing the whole suite.

Hope that helps.

[steve00]

Sorry for the confusion. We've made some recent changes to make this more clear and simple. I will try to explain using two different scenarios.

Scenario 1

IPS Community Suite (Expired 2010)

-- IP.Board

-- IP.Blog

In this scenario, your entire suite is expired and has been since 2010. To RENEW, you would pay $35 ($25 : IP.Board + $10 : IP.Blog)

Scenario 2

IPS Community Suite (Expires February 27, 2013)

-- IP.Board (Active)

-- IP.Blog (Canceled)

In this scenario, you wish to REACTIVATE IP.Blog. You do so and are charged $10. Your parent / suite license still expires February 27, 2013. You are merely reactivating/catching up IP.Blog to the rest of the suite and not extending it by six months. It is done this way because if we were to prorate, one could simply wait until 1 day before the suite expires and pay $.50 to regain access to downloads. :smile:

In short: If your suite license is active, you are paying to reactivate addons. If it is expired, you are renewing the whole suite.

Hope that helps.

Sorry for jumping in on this but am confusedd myself now.

In the 2nd scenario you mention paying $10 to re-activate blog but it is not for 6 months whereas before all this new system it used to always be $10 for 6 months

Sorry but am confused here and would like to get this clear in my own mind ?

[Maxxius]

in my client area -> purchases -> manage your community it says:

IP.Board (inactive) and a button to reactivate.

IP.Blog (inactive) and a button to reactivate.

IP.Gallery (inactive) and a button to reactivate.

IP.Nexus (inactive) and a button to reactivate.

I cannot find any indication that my IPS Community Suite is EXPIRED. Can't find such a text anywhere.

So where does that leave me now? I reactivate IP.Blog for 10 bucks for 6 months as usual? and the same for other applications too then like in the old days?

I believe IPS should make a nice presentation video which would be VERY informative and well explained that everyone would easily understand what it is about.

[bfarber]

in my client area -> purchases -> manage your community it says:

IP.Board (inactive) and a button to reactivate.

IP.Blog (inactive) and a button to reactivate.

IP.Gallery (inactive) and a button to reactivate.

IP.Nexus (inactive) and a button to reactivate.

I cannot find any indication that my IPS Community Suite is EXPIRED. Can't find such a text anywhere.

So where does that leave me now? I reactivate IP.Blog for 10 bucks for 6 months as usual? and the same for other applications too then like in the old days?

I believe IPS should make a nice presentation video which would be VERY informative and well explained that everyone would easily understand what it is about.

In your scenario, all licenses are inactive. You can indeed pay the $10 renewal for IP.Blog which would get you 6 months of access to support and upgrades.

If, in 3 months, you reactivate Gallery, you are reactivating it as per Lindy's second scenario, and it would be active again until the original 6 month term expired (in other words, if you waited 3 months and then reactivated Gallery, it would provide you access for 3 months).

[Maxxius]

how do I find out WHEN my suite expires? and how much time should pass before anything is considered up for renewal and not reactivation?

this is still very unclear to me and it still does not answer to this question: why should I pay for catching up when I actually never got new versions and got no support.

[IveLeft...]

how do I find out WHEN my suite expires? and how much time should pass before anything is considered up for renewal and not reactivation?

this is still very unclear to me and it still does not answer to this question: why should I pay for catching up when I actually never got new versions and got no support.

In your Client Area Under Purchases

[Lindy]

how do I find out WHEN my suite expires? and how much time should pass before anything is considered up for renewal and not reactivation?

this is still very unclear to me and it still does not answer to this question: why should I pay for catching up when I actually never got new versions and got no support.

Again, if you renew your community suite with only IP.Board, wait 3 months and then reactivate IP.Gallery -- there is no other way to handle the reactivation except maintain the existing suite expiration date. If we pro-rated the renewal, then one would just wait until 2 days before expiration of the suite, renew for pennies, download the latest version then let the suite expire. We're allowing the flexibility of picking and choosing which addons you wish to keep active and are not forcing you to discontinue use of the software like others do, but there has to be a line somewhere. If you do chooe to let an addon lapse, you unfortunately have to pay to reactivate it.

As an aside, I recognize it is a bit confusing if you've been with us for a while. It will make more sense as we move forward. With 4.0, as an example, you are not downloading just IP.Board or just IP.Downloads and we are -- you are downloading the software suite. The suite will be comprised of your active suite addons. If you've purchased just IP.Nexus, your suite will be comprised of the core (management panel, members, profiles, etc.) plus IP.Nexus and the download will reflect just that. IP.Board will no longer be required. If you have purchased all products -- your suite download will consist of everything.

[GreenLinks]

In your scenario, all licenses are inactive. You can indeed pay the $10 renewal for IP.Blog which would get you 6 months of access to support and upgrades.

If, in 3 months, you reactivate Gallery, you are reactivating it as per Lindy's second scenario, and it would be active again until the original 6 month term expired (in other words, if you waited 3 months and then reactivated Gallery, it would provide you access for 3 months).

Please don't get me wrong but this is the most stupid way.

You are basically forcing users to Renew all scripts at once or if you choose to renew one later on , you are cutting the 6 month renewal to your desired amount so the end user is basically cheated.

It is a shame for IPB to follow this route to make extra money.

[Wolfie]

Please don't get me wrong but this is the most stupid way.

You are basically forcing users to Renew all scripts at once or if you choose to renew one later on , you are cutting the 6 month renewal to your desired amount so the end user is basically cheated.

It is a shame for IPB to follow this route to make extra money.

I think the goal is to make sure someone doesn't abuse the system to renew just one app for 6 months and then a few days before the renewal day, they renew the rest of the apps to get caught up. If someone doesn't renew any of the apps for 3 months, then renews all of them at one time, I believe they get the full 6 months and aren't pay reactivation fees, since nothing else was active. (Correct me if I'm wrong about that.)

Comes down to a thing of either renewing all to avoid the reactivation fees, or letting the active status lapse until you decide to renew all. My question then becomes, what if you renew one app, then when that renewal expires, you want to renew everything (for a full 6 months)?

[wingman23]

i have to admit, not only do i find this new system confusing but also extremely stupid and baffling and its leaving a very negative impression on me..

here is what just brought me here..

im currently on 3.2.3, not ready for upgrading to the latest version yet but i do like to download the latest version from my client area and stick in on my test site to see how its shaping up and if its worth the trouble yet.. i go to do it and im told its been dissabled along with my blogs and gallery and i cant download them, so i click on reactivate and that will cost me $45 and then of top of that its saying the renewal of my community suite is $60..eh...

im about to make another site too and came looking to buy another licence but i really have to say ive been put off using IPB, not because of the software but because of this messy new payment system, it feels like im being ripped off somehow, it certainly makes me feel uncomforatable at any rate...

why change something that worked really really well.

[bfarber]

Comes down to a thing of either renewing all to avoid the reactivation fees, or letting the active status lapse until you decide to renew all. My question then becomes, what if you renew one app, then when that renewal expires, you want to renew everything (for a full 6 months)?

There is no "reactivation fee", exactly. You are simply paying to renew the second addon, however the expiration does not extend 6 months if your suite is already active (the addon expiration will coincide with the suite at the time you reactivate it).

With your question, here's an example:

You activate blog today (everything is expired). You pay $10 and it (the suite) expires in 6 months (which would be July 29).

July 29 comes around and Blog expires.

You wish to renew blog and gallery now (everything is expired). You pay $20 ($10 for blog, $10 for gallery) and it (the suite) expires in 6 months (which would be Jan 29 2014).

It can all be boiled down quite simply to "If your suite is active, reactivating any individual addon will cause it to expire at the current suite expiration date. If your suite is not active, reactivating one or more addons will cause the suite itself to reactivate and expire in 6 months."

[Wolfie]

Okay so then it's really not a thing of 'reactiving' so much as paying the renewal fee regardless of when the suite expires, so better to renew all up front or soon after to enjoy the benefits of the licenses being active. That about sum it up?

[Nimdock]

I don't like this system at all. Not that it affects me since I only have one product but it doesn't make sense and it is cheating the customer.

Just adding my two cents.

[NiftyWolfie]

I can actually see how this system works now bfarber has explained it and I can see how looking at it from IPS's point of view it helps to stop people from cheating (too strong a word really) them out of a renew fee.

It just means either use what you have until its main renewal time then renew the other modules or take the hit and pay the fee for the current 6 months of the contract you in for your software.

Least that's how the system seems to work to myself and from experience IPS sales are always willing to listen and help out if they can, they want your business, they sure don't want to lose any customers.

[Lindy]

We're certainly not cheating anyone. It's not like we're making you buy the software all over again between major revisions. ;) We don't charge inordinate amounts of money for installation and upgrades. Our goal moving forward is a unified suite. To maintain consistent quality and integration across the suite, we are no longer releasing and maintaining addons individually -- we will be releasing upgrades to the suite on the whole. As such, if you have IP.Board, IP.Gallery and IP.Blog for your suite and later upgrade, you'll need to upgrade the suite or there's a good chance things will be broken. To maintain consistency, everything is on the same billing cycle with the suite as the parent license. There's no other reasonable way to handle reactivations and renewals -- if we pro-rated like we do for new purchases, people would wait until the end of their cycle to renew (why would you not, I certainly would :)) get their upgrades and let the license lapse.

When you look at the big picture, it's not all that unreasonable. You're receiving the best value in the industry - we're proud of that.

[Wolfie]

When you look at the big picture, it's not all that unreasonable. You're receiving the best value in the industry - we're proud of that.

Hey, if I'm understanding it correctly (see above post of mine), then it seems rather fair to me. Re-activation fee is really the renewal fee (to cover until the next renewal) except it isn't getting pro-rated. Makes sense to me, especially if a client is informed that it won't extend the expiration. From a buyers perspective, yeah it kind of sucks. But keeping in mind how the cost hasn't really gone up over the last decade (with exception of IP.Board), overall it's a rather fair deal and a way to encourage some additional revenue. Businesses can't operate at the same income while costs of operating continue to go up, it's just a simple fact.

[wingman23]

There is no "reactivation fee", exactly. You are simply paying to renew the second addon, however the expiration does not extend 6 months if your suite is already active (the addon expiration will coincide with the suite at the time you reactivate it).

With your question, here's an example:

You activate blog today (everything is expired). You pay $10 and it (the suite) expires in 6 months (which would be July 29).

July 29 comes around and Blog expires.

You wish to renew blog and gallery now (everything is expired). You pay $20 ($10 for blog, $10 for gallery) and it (the suite) expires in 6 months (which would be Jan 29 2014).

It can all be boiled down quite simply to "If your suite is active, reactivating any individual addon will cause it to expire at the current suite expiration date. If your suite is not active, reactivating one or more addons will cause the suite itself to reactivate and expire in 6 months."

other than wolfie who seems to agree with everything IPS has to say, did anyone else understand the above statement because i know i didnt, i must be getting stupid in my old age because that was as clear as mud. who the heck thought up such a convoluted way of doing it...

the way it looks to a layman (me, who doesnt have a degree in crytic algorithms) is that im paying twice and not even getting my 6 months worth when i do pay.. or at least thats how it sounds reading between the lines anyhow...

Payment systems should be simple and transparent and not have to be explained in a three hour math lecture.. and to me at least looking at my client area and what i have to pay now is far from that..

its a shame because ive been with IPB a long time and its right put me off. I know im stuck using IPB for my established site so im going to start thinning it out a bit, getting rid of the blogs for instance to get the cost down and unfortunatly for my second site im planning im going to have to go somewhere else for that, which is a real shame as far as im concerned..

[RafaelT]

So just to throw my 2 cents in here and confuse the discussion even further.

I understand where IPS is coming from and what they are doing here and why they aren't prorating.

At the same time as a customer I don't want to pay for more then I am getting. If I am renewing after the add on being inactive obviously that means I am planning on using it again, more then likely for more then just one six month period. ... so what about this..

If the customer is less then 3 months into the 6 month cycle pro rate them for the time they have left. If the customer is more then 3 months in to the cycle pro rate them for the current cycle but also require that they pay for the next cycle.

Add that to the current option and everyone would have an option that worked for them.

[Lindy]

other than wolfie who seems to agree with everything IPS has to say, did anyone else understand the above statement because i know i didnt, i must be getting stupid in my old age because that was as clear as mud. who the heck thought up such a convoluted way of doing it...

the way it looks to a layman (me, who doesnt have a degree in crytic algorithms) is that im paying twice and not even getting my 6 months worth when i do pay.. or at least thats how it sounds reading between the lines anyhow...

Payment systems should be simple and transparent and not have to be explained in a three hour math lecture.. and to me at least looking at my client area and what i have to pay now is far from that..

its a shame because ive been with IPB a long time and its right put me off. I know im stuck using IPB for my established site so im going to start thinning it out a bit, getting rid of the blogs for instance to get the cost down and unfortunatly for my second site im planning im going to have to go somewhere else for that, which is a real shame as far as im concerned..

Please see http://community.invisionpower.com/resources/guides.html/_/ips-client-services-and-faq/deactivating-and-reactivating-licenses-r30 for yet more information.

I'm very sorry you're struggling with understanding the system. There's been a lot of information in this topic, but in simplest terms: renew everything and get a full six months. Don't renew everything, stagger your reactivations and you'll get six months from the date you renew the first product, regardless of when you activate anything else -- thus not fully maximizing your renewal time. There's no simpler way to explain it, I'm afraid. :sad:

We have put much time and effort into devising this system to ensure it fits within the structure of our future direction with the product line and it's unlikely we'll be making any immediate changes, but we're always open to feedback.

[Wolfie]

other than wolfie who seems to agree with everything IPS has to say, did anyone else understand the above statement because i know i didnt, i must be getting stupid in my old age because that was as clear as mud. who the heck thought up such a convoluted way of doing it...

I don't agree with everything said, just in this instance, it makes sense to me.

I'll break down my understanding of it, so that if I'm right, it should be rather simple. If I'm wrong, then it can be pointed out to me so that I know what's what. This is in a timeline format with easy dates to keep it simple (for both of us).
May 1st, 2012, you buy the whole suite
Nov 1st, 2012, you don't renew anything so everything is expired
Dec 1st, 2012, you renew everything except IP.Blog (new renewal date is Jun 1st, 2013)
Feb 1st, 2013, you decide to renew(re-activate) IP.Blog. You pay $10 but you only get until Jun 1st, 2013. The re-activation fee simply actives the status of IP.Blog within your purchase. You're not paying $10 to re-activate and then another amount to renew it.

Another way to look at it is this. In a way, when you renew everything at once, you're essentially renewing the IPS Suite and re-activating everything all up front. It's just not said in this way because what would be the point?

So, to my understanding of it all, if you renew everything, either up front or staggered, then within a 6 month period of time, you'd end up paying the exact same amount, just everything would lapse on the same date (from the initial renewal). So if your cost to renew everything would be $105/6 months, but you decide to not renew IP.Blog until a month later, overall you'd still end up spending $105 for that 6 month period.

[steve00]

Sorry but this new license system really sucks (unless you are going to release all the addons updates at the exact same time ... which cannot see happening)

We pay the 'expired' license renewal but we may not get the 6 months that we used to as it will depend on when some other license is due for renewal .. could be 1 month .. could be 1 week but still have to pay the full renewal fee ??

We pay the renewal but may only get 1 month before it is due for renewal again ..... that just does not seem fair ... not to me anyway

Why oh why did you change to this idea ... the original way was far better (it worked finr for all those years ..... as they say ... if not broke then don't fix it) ... unless as I say you are going to release updates for all the IPS addons at exactly same time .. cannot see that happening ... will it ?

Think its time for me to get out of this forum business, deleting forum, selling licenses etc as going to cost me a lot more from now on

Perhaps IPS are now not looking after the people who helped them get going and looking more towards businessess that can pay with no worries as they can claim it back off their taxes ... perhaps I am wrong ?

[Wolfie]

Sorry but this new license system really sucks (unless you are going to release all the addons updates at the exact same time ... which cannot see happening)

We pay the 'expired' license renewal but we may not get the 6 months that we used to as it will depend on when some other license is due for renewal .. could be 1 month .. could be 1 week but still have to pay the full renewal fee ??

We pay the renewal but may only get 1 month before it is due for renewal again ..... that just does not seem fair ... not to me anyway

Kind of but no.

The way it works now is that everything is up for renewal at the same time. If you choose to renew only a couple of items (say you renew Board and Blog but not Gallery), then your new renewal is 6 months down the road. If you decide to add Gallery to the mix, you pay a fee to reactivate it (making it active within the community suite). But let's say you don't do that and instead wait until the next renewal period to do it, then you renew everything at once. It's good for 6 months from that point.

To me, if you decide to you want to reactivate an app and there's only a month left, I say, wait until renewal time and then activate it so you get the full 6 months for it. Easy enough.

Keep in mind that after you pay the renewal, anything else you want to make active, you aren't really renewing, you are activating within the existing renewal. You're not renewing individual apps as I understand it, but instead renewing the Community Suite package and making certain apps 'active' within that renewal.

[GreenLinks]

Regarding price , i mentioned my following suggestion to Charles via e-mail already.

I believe IPB license cost is cheap and should be increased. License cost increase will allow IPB to hire more developers which will benefit to all of us.

[Maxxius]

It was very nice and clear as it was before.

You own certain addons, you renew, you get access for X amount of time. Time expires. No new versions come out, you do not renew, since you do not need support, ect. New version comes out - you want it - you renew for it. So easy and so brilliant.

and since you are talking about tight integration and same version numbers etc., you should have introduced that system when IPB 4 was released and not now when each addon has its own versions and new versions of all the addons are never released at the same time.

do not want to bash you or anything, you have been and are an outstanding company, but I strongly disagree on this new licence monkey business.