bfarber Posted January 30, 2013 Share Posted January 30, 2013 Sorry but this new license system really sucks (unless you are going to release all the addons updates at the exact same time ... which cannot see happening) ... Why oh why did you change to this idea ... the original way was far better (it worked finr for all those years ..... as they say ... if not broke then don't fix it) ... unless as I say you are going to release updates for all the IPS addons at exactly same time .. cannot see that happening ... will it ? Lindy already said this, but to reiterate - once we get to 4.0 that is exactly what we will be doing. Everytime there is a release it will be a FULL suite release with all addons updated. 4.0 will see updates to all addons. 4.1 will see updates to all addons. For that matter, IP.Board will simply be another addon, since it will no longer be required to run the suite once we get to 4.0. We will also switch to a single versioning system (all apps will be on the same version). So, yes, that's what will be happening. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Garcia Posted January 30, 2013 Share Posted January 30, 2013 I think having Rikki create a visual diagram of the license system for visual learners would be a good idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfie Posted January 30, 2013 Share Posted January 30, 2013 I think having Rikki create a visual diagram of the license system for visual learners would be a good idea. I don't see that happening. :hyper: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bethanyrayne Posted January 30, 2013 Share Posted January 30, 2013 Quite simple you buy it, you use it, you pay for it. No more timing your renewals to gain a fiscal advantage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wingman23 Posted January 30, 2013 Share Posted January 30, 2013 Quite simple you buy it, you use it, you pay for it. No more timing your renewals to gain a fiscal advantage. ok tell me if im wrong but i always thought that the renewal fee was about support, which is fair enough, we already pay for the board and any apps upfront, so that remark above makes no sense at all.. we have bought it, we do use it and have paid for it.. I always thought you had a choice to renew if you wanted support, if you didnt want support then why buy support, seems fair to me... ive been with IPS for years now and in all the time have only asked for support a handfull of times..and i know for one that ive never timed anything to gain a fiscal advantage as i suspect most of the honest members here havent either.. I really do hope this is not some anti piracy measure on the quiet, yes piracy has to be fought against and combated as its the scurge of the internet, but ive noticed throughout most industries like software and games that the honest buyer gets treated like they cant be trusted and end up getting a raw deal in the end..... The real issue here though it seems to me is that the new payment system is really meant for version 4 when it all becomes a suite, and its not really working all that well with this seperate app issue and shouldnt have been implimented until 4 was ready, causing loyal members, honest members who play by the rules to question to the move. seems fair comment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfie Posted January 30, 2013 Share Posted January 30, 2013 ok tell me if im wrong but i always thought that the renewal fee was about support, which is fair enough, we already pay for the board and any apps upfront, so that remark above makes no sense at all.. we have bought it, we do use it and have paid for it.. I always thought you had a choice to renew if you wanted support, if you didnt want support then why buy support, seems fair to me... The renewal is not only for support, but also for access to updates. You bought the initial license and when that expires, you can continue to use what you got but you can't update it at all unless you renew/re-activate your license. You could go two years without renewing and then renew and BAM, update to the latest version of IP.Board for a mere $25. When everything goes to CS 4, in order to update IP.Board to that if your license isn't active, you'll pay a mere $25. Considering that other businesses expect you to buy a whole new license, with a possible discount (10% or so) if you already own an older version, that's not a bad deal. And what are you getting for that mere $25? You're not only getting support and the software, you're getting the hard work that went into that software. These guys spent countless hours developing the software and it's mind boggling to think of how much they need to pull in just to cover business expenses, let alone paychecks. Each client gets a piece of that when they renew for such a minimal amount. If IPS were to have followed through with inflation while trying to remain appealing to clients, I'd think that the new license structures would have already gone up by $5 for renewals for each of the products. Initial cost of Blog and Gallery are basically the same they were a decade ago, so if anything, IPS is losing money by trying to keep certain things low for clients. I mean I get where others are coming from, because everyone likes to have their hard earned money to be stretched as much as possible. But sometimes you gotta be real about things and say, "Hey, I might not like it, but I understand and respect it." when it comes to a business trying to reduce their losses without giving up quality to its clients. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wingman23 Posted January 30, 2013 Share Posted January 30, 2013 i understand what you are saying wolfie but on the other hand i always thought the renewal fee was for support so havent always kept up with the renewal fee and ive always been able to download the latest version of the software, now though i cant unless i pay, so in effect we are being charged for updates for software we have already bought.. which is the first ive heard of, like i said ive always been able to download the latest version for testing purposes and never had it dissabled before until i pay up.. all of a sudden things feel a lot more forced to pay or get penalized which for me at least was the main reason i came to IPS in the first place as this is more a VB tactic.. Hey Ho, things are what they are i suppose so no point flogging this dead horse, doesnt mean people are going to like it though.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfie Posted January 30, 2013 Share Posted January 30, 2013 i understand what you are saying wolfie but on the other hand i always thought the renewal fee was for support so havent always kept up with the renewal fee and ive always been able to download the latest version of the software, now though i cant unless i pay, so in effect we are being charged for updates for software we have already bought.. which is the first ive heard of, like i said ive always been able to download the latest version for testing purposes and never had it dissabled before until i pay up.. Only time you should be able to download without ever having to renew is if you have a legacy IP.Board license. For everything else though, once the license lapses, you aren't able to download the updates anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Management Lindy Posted January 31, 2013 Management Share Posted January 31, 2013 Renewing for support has not applied to licenses in at least 5 years. Renewals, apart from legacy licenses, has been about updates, support and services. As mentioned, this will be clearer when 4.0 rolls out. We felt it important to introduce and iron out these changes prior to the chaos of 4.0 at the same time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodsman Posted January 31, 2013 Share Posted January 31, 2013 I guess I don't see the complaint I am on and have been on auto renew from day one. Which for me is easier to follow and check on as far as what is getting paid when. I would rather see one lump sum taken from my account rather than Gallery this month Downloads a couple of month ago Blog a couple of months in the future...By IPS changing to this system all is paid on time. There is no quarrel as to what got paid when... there has been one time in the past where my license expired but after talking it over with accounting it was discovered that my payment method (Checking Account) did not save. One Phone call Problem fixed.Remember you get what you pay for... Product(s) and Support. Whether you use support every here and there when needed or an IPS Ticket Hog I have yet to see anyone of the staff I worked with on occasion 1 not help resolve an issue and blow me off. and 2 IPS staff Always used the Professional courtesy I deserved even if I was in an Ornery mood. 3 Issues were always resolved in a timely manner. With the understandable exception of current issues of late.Wolfie said it pretty good thereTo me, if you decide to you want to reactivate an app and there's only a month left, I say, wait until renewal time and then activate it so you get the full 6 months for it. Easy enough.Or another scenarioKeep all your apps currentOrGo with auto renew all apps.Either way its cheaper than my electric bill... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxxius Posted January 31, 2013 Author Share Posted January 31, 2013 You could go two years without renewing and then renew and BAM, update to the latest version of IP.Board for a mere $25. When everything goes to CS 4, in order to update IP.Board to that if your license isn't active, you'll pay a mere $25. Considering that other businesses expect you to buy a whole new license, with a possible discount (10% or so) if you already own an older version, that's not a bad deal. And what are you getting for that mere $25? You're not only getting support and the software, you're getting the hard work that went into that software. That is the point, I have purchased a licence once and I'm not supposed to overpay to get a new version am I to blame I do not want to jump the gun on buggy versions? I wait until final versions of each branch 3.1.4, 3.2.3, etc. thus a lot of times passes by between final versions. You forgot to mention that I'm not the only cutomer IPS ever gets when developing new version. There are plenty of newcomers who buy new licences and covers that. and I go not bother the support in the meantime. Say whatever you want. Using my friend as an example once again. He bought all the addons and the forum itself back in january 2012. it expired after half a year. in december 2012 he renewed all that for 105 dollars and briefly a week or so he got access to the software updates. then all of the sudden it was blocked. The access should remain for 6 months for each app not a week or two or whatever. It feels like IPS is trying to hook its claws into customers and make them pay constantly whether their services are needed at the time or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfie Posted January 31, 2013 Share Posted January 31, 2013 The access should remain for 6 months for each app not a week or two or whatever. It feels like IPS is trying to hook its claws into customers and make them pay constantly whether their services are needed at the time or not. There could be something that is being misunderstood, overlooked or something else where it sounds that way but really it happened the way it was supposed to. Only thing I can recommend is for your friend to open a support ticket asking for Lindy to discuss the matter with them. By all that, I mean that there could have been something that got renewed in July and thus the situation happening the way it did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxxius Posted January 31, 2013 Author Share Posted January 31, 2013 yes, he did, and Lindy made a nice exception to the rule and awarded him full 6 months which is very classy on his part, but that was an exception. so what I have said seems to be NORMAL so... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wingman23 Posted January 31, 2013 Share Posted January 31, 2013 there is something really wrong with the billing system which is what is probably causing the confusion.. i will tell you what i have just done which explains it.. i have just reactivated my board and my gallery which then told me that my community suite was paid up to date until dec 2013, then i go into my invoices and its telling me my community suite is up for renewal and to pay $60 which is a different amount to what ive just paid so its not related to what ive just done.. so on one page im being told my community suite is up to date until dec 2013 and on the other page its telling me it needs renewing... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Collin S. Posted January 31, 2013 Share Posted January 31, 2013 there is something really wrong with the billing system which is what is probably causing the confusion.. i will tell you what i have just done which explains it.. i have just reactivated my board and my gallery which then told me that my community suite was paid up to date until dec 2013, then i go into my invoices and its telling me my community suite is up for renewal and to pay $60 which is a different amount to what ive just paid so its not related to what ive just done.. so on one page im being told my community suite is up to date until dec 2013 and on the other page its telling me it needs renewing... If you have any specific questions related to your account, please do not hesitate to open a ticket with the customer service department so that we can look into it and clear any confusion up for you. :thumbsup: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bfarber Posted January 31, 2013 Share Posted January 31, 2013 there is something really wrong with the billing system which is what is probably causing the confusion.. i will tell you what i have just done which explains it.. i have just reactivated my board and my gallery which then told me that my community suite was paid up to date until dec 2013, then i go into my invoices and its telling me my community suite is up for renewal and to pay $60 which is a different amount to what ive just paid so its not related to what ive just done.. so on one page im being told my community suite is up to date until dec 2013 and on the other page its telling me it needs renewing... Without looking at your account there would be no way to explain this. Perhaps you had two invoices pending. Perhaps there is an issue with your account. Perhaps an invoice applies to a different license. I would recommend opening a ticket and we would be happy to either explain the situation, or resolve it if there is something incorrect with your account. This is, however, not related to the discussion at hand realistically. :) True billing errors, if one occurred in your case, are not the same as the intention/design of the renewal system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DesignzShop Posted January 31, 2013 Share Posted January 31, 2013 I love the way the new system works. I just purchased for example another copy of blogs for another site, I was charged 40 dollars or so (Pro-rated) until my main license renewal. I like everything based around my core renewal date personally. If I don't want to renew the license and wait I can do that too and still pay the same price as it would of been 6 months earlier. IMO it doesn't get much simpler, I think some people are over explaining this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wingman23 Posted January 31, 2013 Share Posted January 31, 2013 i think it might be related though because its probably this that is causing the confusion and making the new payment system seem unfair. all we have as customers when we are paying is what we see in front of us on the screen and if the information is wrong and giving the impression that we have to pay twice for the same thing then that for me at least will cause bad feeling over the new system.. I bit the bullet and was prepared to pay what ever it took to get my community up to date and was plesantly suprised that after i had paid what was very little that it was showing up to date until the end of the year so given that i think it might be important to get the displayed information in the billing area more clear Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Collin S. Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 I love the way the new system works. I just purchased for example another copy of blogs for another site, I was charged 40 dollars or so (Pro-rated) until my main license renewal. I like everything based around my core renewal date personally. If I don't want to renew the license and wait I can do that too and still pay the same price as it would of been 6 months earlier. IMO it doesn't get much simpler, I think some people are over explaining this. This is one of the reasons why we switched to the current renewal system as well. On any given day, we would have customers contact us inuring about how to make all of their products renew on the same date - particularly with organizations that need to go through a chain of command and get purchase orders cleared for every renewal. The customer feedback that we received strongly supported the unified renewal date as it really simplifies things. In addition, since we'll only have one "product" and one "version" starting with 4.0, now was as good a time as ever to introduce the new billing system to customers. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.Ian Posted February 3, 2013 Share Posted February 3, 2013 Any reason why if you decide to cancel a product, you lose the ability to download that product or get support on it immediately - rather than at the end of the period that you have paid for? Whilst I can understand the reasons for no prorating now, the downside is that people might decide not to renew an application and so will wait until their suite expires, therefore reducing the stream of payments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wingman23 Posted February 4, 2013 Share Posted February 4, 2013 ive actually just purchased a new site, in the billing i was charged so much for the community suite and so much for the forums but only really downloaded the forums, dont know if this is off topic but what is the community suite i was charged 90 dollars for.. (or whatever the amount was) does continue to be confusing.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfie Posted February 4, 2013 Share Posted February 4, 2013 Any reason why if you decide to cancel a product, you lose the ability to download that product or get support on it immediately - rather than at the end of the period that you have paid for?When you cancel a product, it converts the remaining time on that product into time for the suite. If you look at the article about it, look at the expiration dates in the screenshots.The only ting that gets me is that if you cancel the entire suite, it's immediate vs holding out until the end of the period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Collin S. Posted February 4, 2013 Share Posted February 4, 2013 ive actually just purchased a new site, in the billing i was charged so much for the community suite and so much for the forums but only really downloaded the forums, dont know if this is off topic but what is the community suite i was charged 90 dollars for.. (or whatever the amount was) does continue to be confusing.. That's our new license structure which will take effect once IP.Board is no longer the required core component. Before: IP.Board $175 Now: IP.Board $75 + Core $100 = $175 The price has not changed, just the way we display it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Management Lindy Posted February 4, 2013 Management Share Posted February 4, 2013 Any reason why if you decide to cancel a product, you lose the ability to download that product or get support on it immediately - rather than at the end of the period that you have paid for? Whilst I can understand the reasons for no prorating now, the downside is that people might decide not to renew an application and so will wait until their suite expires, therefore reducing the stream of payments. We no longer have cancel renewals, etc. as you're familiar with. A product is either active or inactive. A delayed deactivate is something we can explore, however. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcher Technologies Posted February 4, 2013 Share Posted February 4, 2013 We no longer have cancel renewals, etc. as you're familiar with. A product is either active or inactive. A delayed deactivate is something we can explore, however. 0.o I am now extremely glad I did not attempt what I was considering to force a manual renewal by cancelling and renewing my suite... I'd have been out a full month+. Seriously... is there no way to prepay a full suite with all apps for say 2 years? even by ticket? I understand the reasons given are to put a stop to cheating the system.... but what about all of us *not* looking to cheat it, just wanting to not have to worry about it? and no... I'm not going to leave that sum in my account credit, thanks..... that is well over my comfort level regardless of security. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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