RebelT Posted July 18, 2009 Share Posted July 18, 2009 [quote name='Mat (Fusion Digital)' date='16 July 2009 - 08:07 AM' timestamp='1247728039' post='1826973'] Yes, but there is still the one problem: if you leave the link as the XHTML standard says you must (without trying to open a window), then the viewer can choose to open it in a new window or use the same one - two choices. If you try to force the page to open in a new window (which the standard says you must not) then the viewer has no choice - you cannot include some extra key while clicking the link to force it to use the same one, it will always open a new window - zero choices. How is removing choice from the viewer in any way a good thing? Besides, teaching someone to middle click is basic. I'm afraid I don't want to say this but: if your members don't know how to right or middle click and don't want to learn, they should go away. I'm not calling them stupid for not knowing something, I'm calling them stupid for refusing to learn. Too many people these days expect everything to be dumbed down to the lowest common denominator. I understand what you say about choice and dumbing down, But I've always used one click navigation because many people get confused with choice. If some of your members are intellectually challenged, then as a website administrator, I think you have to cater for them, not tell them to go away. The XHTML standard has removed the choice for admins to cater for all their members imo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vesperala Posted July 18, 2009 Share Posted July 18, 2009 [quote name='bfarber' date='07 July 2009 - 06:01 PM' timestamp='1246978860' post='1821731'] Proper standards for "today's web" state that you shouldn't dictate to a user how the link opens. The user can already control this themself by ctrl+clicking, right click -> open in new window, middle clicking, and a number of other options. In fact, in XHTML Strict doctype (which we use) there is no "target" attribute for the anchor tag anymore, so the specifications don't even *allow* you to control this. Our setting resorts to a javascript method that can be added elsewhere if needed. Realistically, though, your members should be left to make this decision on their own imo. realistically, you cannot care about my users more than I do , nor know what they should be left or not to do. :) maybe I am wrong...but I care about my members. I care about all my members. today one of them asked me how he can know if he had a private message...sounds dumb? perhaps yes, but I care about that member too... I understand you, ips, are worried about standard that are good for whom? for my members? believe me no one can care more about my visitors than I do..:) because they are mine. so, do you think you care more? I think you should care more about your customers: us, board owners. we pay for something we want, not for something you tell us is good because is yours. so, do you care about members? you cannot do that more that I do. do you care about what I want? I doubt. you told me already is important more that you care about visitors. are you sure is more important for you as company, to care about those that do not pay? :) because if we, owners, are not happy with your choice, we can search for another company that care for us and what we want/ask/pay for, because we pay them... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mesmer Posted July 18, 2009 Share Posted July 18, 2009 [quote name='Alahmnat' date='07 July 2009 - 10:28 PM' timestamp='1246998512' post='1821943'] Then middle-click. :) omg I didn't now this :P (and after further investigation I discovered I can click my mousewheel..) I have to agree with vesperala. I have a general discussionboard with a lot of people who aren't exactly computer savvy.. One of the first things on my to-do-settings list-after-upgrade is to get it to open all links in a new window. Maybe I will teach them how to use the middle-click-mouse option in time, but not right away after confronting them with a new ipb. I have to reduce the shock ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vesperala Posted July 18, 2009 Share Posted July 18, 2009 [quote name='Mat (Fusion Digital)' date='15 July 2009 - 10:31 PM' timestamp='1247686290' post='1826728'] Could you be any more condescending and arrogant? [quote name='vesperala' date='15 July 2009 - 10:54 PM' timestamp='1247687661' post='1826738'] of course... but I let them to begin that [quote name='Mat (Fusion Digital)' date='16 July 2009 - 10:07 AM' timestamp='1247728039' post='1826973'] And vesperala? You really don't want to respond in the affirmative to the question "could you be any more condescending and arrogant" - it's not a good thing to be condescending OR arrogant. I thought I had mistranslating but perhaps I did not... :) and if is that, my answer is still yes.. :) I can be more arrogant, but I always let them to be first... is wrong to be arrogant? :D so why thy are? yes I can be and I am every time when I am furious realistically, I do not came to service in a very good mood, is obviously I came here when something goes wrong. if they care only about elite members, sorry, I am not one of these and I do not like they have standards for members. I am a second hand customer if I do not know how to use mouse? or if I have users that do not know how to post? well, my money are not "second hand" are as good as everyone else and I know what I ask. here is feedback not peer to peer..., what we do not like they should care and listen, not tell us how good is what they did... if would be good for me, I wont be here. yes, I can be more arrogant. especially when I am so disappointed. is my language, Romanian, condescending is a good word. I am not sure about his meaning in English, now that you tell is not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lewis P Posted July 18, 2009 Share Posted July 18, 2009 tbh, this argument is like the Top button argument. The functionality has not changed, only been moved. Example, top button no longer exists as you can use your keyboard or scrollwheel. No point having double functionality. This argument, EXTENDS functionality, giving the user the ability to choose whether or not to open it in a new window (popup/whatever.... which is bad practise). Left click = current window. Middle click = new window/tab. If you want though, the setting is there to open in new window, then all you have to do is delete the content cache from the BBcode page, and all links will open in a new window. Simple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jυra Posted July 18, 2009 Share Posted July 18, 2009 [quote name='Mat (Fusion Digital)' date='16 July 2009 - 08:07 AM' timestamp='1247728039' post='1826973'] Yes, but there is still the one problem: if you leave the link as the XHTML standard says you must (without trying to open a window), then the viewer can choose to open it in a new window or use the same one - two choices. If you try to force the page to open in a new window (which the standard says you must not) then the viewer has no choice - you cannot include some extra key while clicking the link to force it to use the same one, it will always open a new window - zero choices. How is removing choice from the viewer (and honestly, I don't much care about your business model if it fails because someone dare view a site in the same window - this isn't necessarily directed at the person I reply to by the way) in any way a good thing? Too many sites these days think of their viewers as products that can't think for themselves. I don't think it has to do with a business model, but more with how forums are. Why should someone back click 5-20 times of view their history just to go back to reply about something they saw from a link? Forums are sites for interaction. Now I will cringe every time I see an IPB forum that has it enabled because they're treating me as a visitor and not a member or potential member. You want me to leave? Okay, bye. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vesperala Posted July 18, 2009 Share Posted July 18, 2009 [quote name='Putzу' date='18 July 2009 - 02:56 PM' timestamp='1247918213' post='1828388'] No point having double functionality. but my members have asked for it and I added top button. :) by the way, one of my members asked Turkish language pack and I will enable this when I find one. because she speak no English nor Romanian... One user, not much isn't it? for me is much enough. Just attitude. I know we have option for external links, but not for all of them. for example not for external links in member profile, their home page... I do not like I cannot decide myself. ps: a site is not a public domain. money spent with a purpose! that purpose is not to have visitors on the board, but members who stay. external links that are opening in the same window does not make this . so this is not what I need and pay. every owner interest is to have people on its board. clever, dumb, black, wite, yellow skin, does not matter. what matter is people that do not GO. such links are not good for us. so let us decide. because you speak here about our money, not www standard. I do not pay host, license, and so on for moral lessons. I do not break any low keeping members in my own way. IS ME WHO MUST DECIDE. here is not about a large adhesion on my IDEAS or not. here each of us has right, because each of us PAY for it. so, give us the possibility to decide ourselves what is good or not for US. is not about someone think here. but about who is paying. not about majority because minority is paying as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBTheme Posted July 20, 2009 Share Posted July 20, 2009 Ctrl + left click opens links in new window in firefox. Not sure about other browsers though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 20, 2009 Share Posted July 20, 2009 [quote name='Evanescense' date='19 July 2009 - 09:55 PM' timestamp='1248065755' post='1829302'] Ctrl + left click opens links in new window in firefox. Not sure about other browsers though. Clicking with the middle button/wheel also accomplishes this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teddy Rogers Posted July 20, 2009 Share Posted July 20, 2009 I would like to see the old link method used again, it is much easier viewing things this way and I agree a lot of people have no idea using CTRL+Click = a new window or that clicking the middle mouse button does the same thing (if it is configured to do that) I went to Topics, Posts and Polls and enabled Open posted links in a new window. Whilst this activated the links I have to wait until the whole page (or a large percentage of it) has loaded in the browser before the links can open in a new window. Maybe this has something to do with the Java script being used?... Ted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ditchmonkey Posted July 20, 2009 Share Posted July 20, 2009 [quote name='bfarber' date='07 July 2009 - 07:01 AM' timestamp='1246978860' post='1821731'] Proper standards for "today's web" state that you shouldn't dictate to a user how the link opens. The user can already control this themself by ctrl+clicking, right click -> open in new window, middle clicking, and a number of other options. In fact, in XHTML Strict doctype (which we use) there is no "target" attribute for the anchor tag anymore, so the specifications don't even *allow* you to control this. Our setting resorts to a javascript method that can be added elsewhere if needed. Realistically, though, your members should be left to make this decision on their own imo. I'm going to have to strongly disagree with you on this one. There are times when it makes sense to have links open in the same window (like navigating through one website), and times when it clearly makes sense to open links in a new window (like when referencing resources external to the current website). As a user I get pretty annoyed when the webmaster of a site has not applied a little common sense to the situation and has all links opening in the same window. I don't want to have to discover that the behavior is not what I expected and then go back and adjust my clicking to match a more sensical browsing paradigm. Further, for website owners who are providing content and services for free to users, dictating the link type to control the user experience to a small degree is certainly the right of the site owner, and is of the smallest imposition on the user (if at all). You should also realize that a great number of Internet users have a very low level of computer literacy and many would not know how to open links in new windows manually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBTheme Posted July 20, 2009 Share Posted July 20, 2009 I have to admit, I would like to see the external links open in a new window. That does throw me off sometimes when I click an outside link and it makes me lose my page. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jυra Posted July 20, 2009 Share Posted July 20, 2009 I'd like to think I'm pretty wise with the net, but I didn't know about the middle scroll/button till it was mentioned in this thread. So I can't expect many of my members to know about that or keyboard hot keys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bfarber Posted July 20, 2009 Share Posted July 20, 2009 [quote name='Ditchmonkey' date='20 July 2009 - 03:24 AM' timestamp='1248074674' post='1829336'] As a user I get pretty annoyed when the webmaster of a site has not applied a little common sense to the situation and has all links opening in the same window. I don't want to have to discover that the behavior is not what I expected and then go back and adjust my clicking to match a more sensical browsing paradigm. You see, I'm exactly the opposite. I get *extremely* annoyed when I click a link and it suddenly spawns a new window. I then have to remember to close the window instead of just clicking back, and I have an extra button my taskbar (when I already have 20 programs opened typically). To each their own. Tis why we added a setting to let external links open in a new window. We can certainly add the javascript to execute in the profile screen (for example) if it's not executing there. Honestly, I don't understand what the big deal is. There's a setting to do what you want. Why do you guys care if we used javascript or an attribute that isn't valid (and thus, could potentially not work in future browsers)? If the setting isn't working in, for example, profiles - report that as a bug and be done with it. We'll fix it there, problem solved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vesperala Posted July 20, 2009 Share Posted July 20, 2009 [quote name='bfarber' date='07 July 2009 - 06:01 PM' timestamp='1246978860' post='1821731'] Proper standards for "today's web" state that you shouldn't dictate to a user how the link opens. [quote name='bfarber' date='20 July 2009 - 04:38 PM' timestamp='1248097108' post='1829484'] If the setting isn't working in, for example, profiles - report that as a bug and be done with it. We'll fix it there, problem solved. :D yeah...but the big and real(istic) trouble is someone that tell us like you : works as intended... I do love that phrase, you know Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandon D Posted July 20, 2009 Share Posted July 20, 2009 I hate when links open in a new window. If I want it in a new window (tab), I'll make the minimal effort to hold the cmd key as I click the link. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBTheme Posted July 20, 2009 Share Posted July 20, 2009 [quote name='bfarber' date='20 July 2009 - 08:38 AM' timestamp='1248097108' post='1829484'] There's a setting to do what you want. Thank you! I did not know this. I think today would be a good day for me to take some time in the new admin cp and get a feel for what we now have and don't have. I'm feeling pretty dumb right now. I've been so busy I couldn't take a few minutes to help myself out on my own board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vesperala Posted July 20, 2009 Share Posted July 20, 2009 that setting is not working for links on profile, homepage, evanescense :) perhaps next version will do... if is not how they intended to be Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bfarber Posted July 20, 2009 Share Posted July 20, 2009 [quote name='vesperala' date='20 July 2009 - 11:09 AM' timestamp='1248102593' post='1829519'] that setting is not working for links on profile, homepage, evanescense :) perhaps next version will do... if is not how they intended to be All it takes is someone to report where they don't work. :) I'm sure it would take minimal effort to support the javascript in the portal and profile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bono Posted July 20, 2009 Share Posted July 20, 2009 And what about img tags in new windows, if external image is big it would just break my forum layout. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bfarber Posted July 20, 2009 Share Posted July 20, 2009 You don't "open" img tags....I'm not sure how you'd open them in a new window. Imgs that are linked with an anchor tag would be covered by this setting already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bono Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 [quote name='bfarber' date='20 July 2009 - 11:36 PM' timestamp='1248125792' post='1829754'] You don't "open" img tags....I'm not sure how you'd open them in a new window. Imgs that are linked with an anchor tag would be covered by this setting already. I meant in 2.3.6 version when you click on big picture it opens in new popup/window and now when you click on picture it expands and breaks forum layout. I have tried to enable option open in new window and rebuild all posts without any effect, it still expands picture and breaks forum layout. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bfarber Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 [quote name='Bono' date='20 July 2009 - 08:42 PM' timestamp='1248136969' post='1829889'] I meant in 2.3.6 version when you click on big picture it opens in new popup/window and now when you click on picture it expands and breaks forum layout. I have tried to enable option open in new window and rebuild all posts without any effect, it still expands picture and breaks forum layout. It only does that when you click on the image to view it full size. You can click on the image a second time to "shrink" it back down. I don't personally consider this "breaking the forum layout". The forum layout is fine, but if a member wants to temporarily view the full sized image they can click on it to see the image as it was originally intended. That said, you could possibly revert to the old behavior with some javascript modifications. You can try posting in the resource forums for assistance with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 I think, personally, that this shouldn't be a site-wide setting that changes the behavior for all members, but rather it should be something individual members set as a preference in their My Settings pages. Clearly as we can see from this topic, we have some folks who really like external links opening in a new window, and some who always want to control whether or not this happens. As it is on this site, the powers that be decided that they would leave this setting to No, and so that means that all of us members here have to live with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arun Kumar Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 Thanks, I was able to make "external" links in posts/signatures open in a new window by enabling the "Open posted links in a new window?" option in ACP and rebuilt content. However the previous version of IPB (2.3.x) used to open "internal" links posted in posts/signatures also to open in a new window as well. Is there any way to enable that in IPB 3? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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