Matt

I used an artist on Fiverr, I can DM you the link if you'd like.

Ok, we still have plans in that direction, but not everything will get into 5.0.0. I genuinely do not think there is a market for a $1500 self-hosted option outside of enterprise which often have needs way beyond hosting things themselves and the cost to run that size of community means we're probably much more cost-effective just to host it anyway. We have more knowledge and experience with our platform and the resources it needs.

But we risk spending 150 cents to make that dollar by doing that.

Yes, it is technically possible but doesn't fit with our business plan. To do that would mean you'd need to be very rigid with the type of host. We'd also have to completely re-tool those features already written to work with that droplet/docker image. We'd also not really be able to make it profitable given the number of people willing to host things themselves. There are very few self-hosting only community platforms left. There is a reason for this. I don't remember this being discussed as something on our roadmap specifically. There was a notion of doing more to monetise communities around the start of v5. Yes, I addressed that in my post but a shorter version is that discussion around self-hosting licenses and not getting features is toxic and dominates any feedback we get from a small minority. We didn't want to make announcements about that until we were very sure about it. We are still in the early stages of beta testing.

Live community features, and the topic summary feature relies on our own cloud platform. The topic summary is actually pretty clever in that our cloud platform pulls data directly from the database outside of the software and runs the whole thing through a custom algorithm written in python to calculate a score for each post. It then updates the database. This isn't run via tasks or cron it's run via our own queuing system on cloud. Topic assignments is likely to be added to the business tier and all those above. We are no different from others selling services that restrict some features to higher plans. In the past, plans were based around storage GB and bandwidth but that's rarely the case now. Tiers are now based on feature sets. I know it can be uncomfortable to talk about the cold realities of running a business, but the landscape has changed for community platforms. We feel that relaunching self-hosted with the Classic license has allowed self-hosting to remain viable for the life of v5. That doesn't mean it won't be the case for whatever comes after, it just means that no one internally is even thinking about v6, let alone making plans for it. I can't give you a cast iron guarantee of something that may not exist. Who knows where we'll be in five years time. In 2024 to date, cloud represents 86% of our income. Without Cloud, Invision Community would not be here, or at least not as we know it now. By having a profitable model, we can still provide a self-hosted option which just about breaks even or makes a small loss depending on how many bugs us developers add in. We are happy with this. Hopefully you are happy with this. We have committed to this model. But it does mean that there will be a divergence in feature sets. Partly because it's hard to build modern features with just PHP and MySQL and partly a business decision to entice people up the tiers. We could create a docker image with node, etc and be incredibly rigid with hosting environments to the point only a few hosts are supported with droplets, etc. But that would decimate our self-hosting customer base with most not being able to run the required servers, or not having the knowledge to set it up and it would decimate our cloud business by offering the same functionality but elsewhere. That's the business stuff, let's move on to transparency. Part of the discourse around self-hosting versus cloud (even though we never frame it like this) is toxic. There is a small but incredibly vocal minority that refuse to accept that they cannot get every single feature we write and drag every feature release blog down with negativity, angry posting about cloud's existence, and accusations of 'money grabbing' (you are very welcome to pay our AWS bill). This can be hard to handle in a public forum. We have two options; endlessly have the same conversations or hide/block/ban posts and people which then comes across as thin-skinned and unable to take criticism. Ahrefs does not have the problem that we have. Their customers are all 'cloud' customers and they're used to not getting all the features, so to say "yeah we'll test it in beta but you might not get it" will not be met with (much) anger and resentment that we seem to get when we mention "cloud only". This has been ongoing for years and is the reason why we heavily moderate comments on our blog posts. You don't get to see a lot of the rage posting because we never approve it. But it's there. It's always there. With v5, live topics, live community and topic summary were only ever going to be cloud only due to the underlying technology. Two out of three of those already exist on cloud so should come as no surprise that they remain so. The other features we were undecided. From our point of view, everything is a tier. We could bring topic assignments to Classic, but then it would mean that we'd need to bring it to all cloud tiers. Which means that there's little incentive to pay for a higher tier level. We could have said "this feature may be on a higher tier than classic" on the blog announcement but it would only invite more toxicity and more anger from this minority group. We wanted to wait until we had it decided. And part of that decision was based on how it went over during the alpha and beta stages. When we create a feature, we never truly know how it'll shape up, or even if we'll keep it; more true during the early stages. Now we're in the beta stages, we have a firmer idea of its usefulness and future direction and are more able to make those decisions. That's the honest truth. There is no conspiracy. We have customers who run large enterprise communities testing these same features and offering input too. We could have done better for sure. But it's a really tight line we're trying to walk on between informing customers about where possible features may end up without instigating another round of self-hosted versus cloud which is draining quite honestly. Not to mention demoralising for our team who proudly present their work and a good portion of the feedback is on why self-hosted licenses aren't getting it. But moving back to features, if you look at the volume of work that has gone into v5 and all the good stuff that's been added, it really is a very small percentage of features that will not make it to every single product tier we offer. As always, we may not be perfect, but we're here and talking about it.

No features have been removed. You may have been testing a cloud demo site and then self hosting, perhaps.

I’ll do my best to address the points raised. ”I thought the Classic license meant I got everything?” The Classic license no longer allows a “pick and mix” kind of approach to our apps. It now means that there is only one purchase option, and that comes with all apps (Pages, Commerce, etc). In the past, we allowed the purchase of, for example, forum and blogs at a cheaper rate that purchasing all apps together. “Why are you removing features?” I think the key point here, and the source for some confusion is that in the past we’ve sold blocks of features as ‘apps’ and charged more for those apps. Now we’re selling blocks of features as package tiers. With Invision Community 5, we won’t create a new app, but rather introduce new features and consider where they go on the package tier. We do consider the Classic license as part of that tier, and when you consider the cost gap between the Classic license over the course of the year, and the price of the higher tiers, it should be the case that there is a feature disparity between them. We are no different from almost every other vendor. For example, Ahrefs offer a ‘lite’ package at $99/month and an advanced package at $359/month which offers much more. It would be disingenuous to wrap up all the concerns as merely not understanding pricing tiers because the real friction comes from our legacy of being a self-hosted first company and “them versus us” feeling between self-hosted and cloud packages. It’s something we continue to juggle. In terms of transparency, I feel that we are as much as possible. At this point we genuinely do not have a fixed idea of where some of the newer features will sit, but we are talking about a very small percentage of features (topic assignments, topic summaries, etc) when you consider the significant update that v5 is with it’s new theme editor, page editor, updated UI, etc. None of that is being moved to higher product tiers. We’ll get you a full list as soon as we can.

There's a lot for your members to love with Invision Community 5, and we recently covered five of the best features. Today, I want to discuss five features your team will love. One of the main concepts for Invision Community 5 was to reduce the complexity of power-user tools like theming and page building. These functions had been built around those with deep technical and coding knowledge, locking out many community teams. We also wanted to build new tools to help busy community teams organise, moderate and identify trusted members. Did we achieve that? Let's look at five new features we think your team will love in Invision Community 5. The new theme editorI can't describe how much I love the new theme editor. It is everything we wanted for Invision Community 5 and more. Now, anyone can manage their theme without needing to be knowledgeable in HTML and CSS. There's so much to discuss, so it's best to head over to the news article we put together. From an easier way to select colours and drag-and-drop header arrangements to simpler ways to upload logos and preview your community on tablets and mobiles, the theme editor puts all the power and complexity of managing themes into the hands of your community team. The editor, combined with the new views, such as the feed view for forums, article-like featured first post in topics, and the new sidebar view, Invision Community 5, really does take things to the next level. The new page editorWe've taken the concepts of drag-and-drop widgets to a higher level with Invision Community 5. You no longer need to create custom blocks using HTML and CSS to produce fantastic custom pages. With the new page editor, you can access a library of pre-built widgets with multiple view options, such as grids, rows, and carousels. Coupled with the power of Pages databases, you can quickly build custom pages to showcase the best content from your community. Jimi, a valued customer, recently created a walkthrough video showcasing the new theme and page editors. It is a must-watch to experience the system's power. Assign topicsGetting the right help to your members at the right time can take time and effort. Pairing a community question with the expertise of specific team members can require some manual overhead with external systems. It can also be difficult to hold your team accountable, ensure they are answering questions in good time, and get an overview of their assignments. These issues are fixed in Invision Community 5 with the topic assignments feature. You can assign a topic to a specific member of your team or a group of members. You also have complete oversight on the volume and time required to reply to your entire team. It's a great feature that helps keep your community running smoothly. Badge creator and icon pickerThis feature is a dark horse. At first glance, it looks like a nice feature, but perhaps it is something that you may not use. However, I believe this is a feature your team will love. There are many areas where you may need custom graphics. We have rank badges, one-off celebration badges, custom reactions and more. In the past, you'd have been required to do this with apps like Illustrator or Photoshop and import them back in. As part of our vision to bring power tools to everyone, we built a badge creator that allows you to combine over 1,700 icons and hundreds of emojis with badge backgrounds to quickly create custom badges and reaction icons. It really only takes a few minutes to create all the custom graphics your community needs. In addition, there are now many areas, such as menu items, where you can use icons and emoji to enrich your user experience. Who doesn't love the ability to create badges without needing a designer? Community ExpertsCommunity experts are vital to the well-being of any community. The Pareto principle holds true in your community. Twenty percent of your members create eighty percent of the interactions across your community, but featuring those members to newer users can be difficult. In the past, we've relied on metrics such as the date they joined and the number of posts they've made, but these celebrate longevity but not expertise. Invision Community 5 uses a bespoke algorithm to identify and feature experts based on the speed, accuracy and helpfulness of their responses. This not only celebrates those members with an exclusive badge and notification, but it also helps other users identify those community leaders who are more likely to help them and guide them through their journey with you. We think your team will love that Invision Community 5 identifies these members for you and allows them to help lead your community. I could have easily written about ten features your team will love, but these are my top five. Do you agree? Which features are you most looking forward to? Let us know in the comments. View full blog entry

We are working on a branch with some changes to the toolbar which should help.

If you look at our current pricing page, you'll notice some features only appear on certain package levels, so we're just clarifying when people say "self hosted or cloud only" it's not an accurate question. As Marc said, some are a technical limit (node, etc) and some are a business decision.

It's a paragraph level tool, so it does make some sense it being in there.

Phew, thankfully you're not our only customer. 😅 Joking aside, Ehren and Matt F are working on a few improvements to the menu system.

Not all features we've announced will come to all package levels. We'll have more information on that later this year.

Some of these features will be for specific packages. It's not as simple as "cloud" v "self-hosted". We have a total of 7 packages including the Classic self hosted option. Like all businesses, some features are limited to package levels and above. We have not finalised our decisions yet, but when we do we will update the pricing page with "coming soon" as we have in the past.

As we move closer to releasing Invision Community 5, I wanted to review a few key features I believe your members will love after you upgrade to Invision Community 5. The all-new editorWe have to start with the brand new editor, recoded and redesigned from the ground up. The new editor is not just faster and leaner, but also remarkably user-friendly, ensuring an upgraded experience for your members in Invision Community 5. Your members will love the streamlined toolbar that no longer hides buttons on smaller devices. They'll also appreciate the new emoji and icon panel, which allows them to insert over 1,700 icons to enhance their posts. Content boxes, resizing images, and media embeds via drag handles will also be well received. Finally, small UI improvements, such as new line arrows on blocks that can be tapped or clicked to insert new lines accurately, will end fiddly cursor placement and settling for poor spacing. The editor is the most important touch point within your community, so we wanted to ensure that Invision Community 5 does this perfectly. New live community featuresI can speak from experience that when I see other people typing, I'll stick around to see what they say. Likewise, if I post a topic and I see multiple people reading it, I'll keep tabs on it to see if any replies come in. These are not just great engagement features but also an exciting experience. Invision Community 5 takes it further, blurring the lines between group chat and a traditional topic. Now, when a new reply or reaction is made, it will appear magically on your screen, keeping your members on site for longer. Your members will love feeling like they are part of the live community and watching reactions and replies in real-time. They'll also appreciate seeing their notification bell numbers increase without having to refresh or move between pages. Topic SummariesTime is our most valuable resource. Your members use many apps and communities in a day, so when they make time to visit your community, we want to ensure that they get the most from your forum in the shortest amount of time possible. Long topics are great but few have the time to read through dozens of pages. Topic summaries take the very best of a topic and remove the rest, allowing your members to optimize their time well while on your community, making their experience more efficient and productive. They'll love keeping up to date with more topics without scrolling past gifs and side quests. Dark mode and the new mobile experienceLate-night scrolling becomes much more comfortable with Invision Community 5's native dark mode. Your members will love being able to choose a mode or allow it to sync with their devices, giving them a uniform experience across the many apps they browse. They'll also appreciate the new user experience, which includes improved performance, better accessibility for screen readers, and a vastly improved phone experience. We've made sure Invision Community 5 is mobile first. The new tagging experienceInvision Community 5 reinvents tagging to make it more community-focused and increase content discovery across all apps. With its new tag pages, you can easily bring gallery photos, forum topics, events, and blog entries into a single page in Invision Community 5. Your members will love following their favourite tags to get notifications on new content and discover more of your community they are interested in without having to browse many forums and different areas of your community. These are just the top five features we think your members will love. Are you looking forward to these features or perhaps some of those not mentioned here? As always, let us know in the comments. View full blog entry

You can still do this in Pages databases.

It works for some, but not others. What version of PHP are you using? I think there's an issue with 8.3 and delta zips. Nothing in 2024 due to the holidays. But we'll keep moving forward with beta releases. We're also profiling v5 on very large sites to ensure that it's all running well. You'll notice some optimisation stuff in the release notes for beta 6.

Beta 6 is now available 😮 Another week, another beta! More bugs squished thanks to your feedback and testing. The full list is available as always on our release notes page. Let us know how it goes.

Changed Current Release to No

Yes, lots of thoughts. We want to do it but there's a few things to consider such as our entire website is Pages and there will need to be minor CSS tweaks. We also link up with the client area (which will be on v4 for a while) along with a bucket of customisations for various things. It's on our list but not as simple as just running the upgrader.

I can see all your thumbnails on desktop and mobile.

We still retain the findComment method for areas which we have no idea about page numbers (widgets, etc) but you should see the new links when sharing links from posts.