Do not like the new Code and Quote in 3.4

[Kandice]

This new live Code and Quote thing make it a lot harder and frustrating now.

For example the Code tag.

1.) Cannot type [ code ] [ /code ] anymore, it leave HTML inside. Extra work now have to click the Button or Source Code then back again.

2.) Cannot add new Contents anymore in the Code Wrap. When try hit return on last sentence inside the Code, it go to a new line outside the code.

Have to click the Light Switch, find the code, add in the extra sentence, click light switch again. More work then before.

3.) Typing Links or sentence, then when try to wrap the links or sentence in a Code. It create a Gap on all my sentence or links. Have to manually go back and deleted all the gap.

4.) When I try to copy anything in the Code that is perfectly indent. Paste it in another post, it go in a straight line and not indent the word. I have to click the Light Switch, copy the code for it to work and indent properly.

5.) Every time I want to paste something into a Code or Quote I have to press the Light Switch to do it then switch back or it doesn't look right. As for the Quote I don't used it a lot, but I have no ideas who I'm quoting. It a big messed when I do multiple quote and get really confusing. When I edit the Quote or indent it, I may accidentally get rid of the Quote or make more unnecessary Quote box.

What I don't get is why I have to spend more time on post now, hitting the light switch back and fourth for everything when I don't even touch the light switch in 3.3 and it post just fine. In 3.4 it take so much effort and it's just time consuming just to make a right post. This may not matter to a lot of people, but it's a big deal to me. Ever since moving to 3.4 I spend more and more time everyday re-editing people post now. My post also take longer and more work now.

I spend so much time to re-produce the bugs and record a Videos to send in Bug Tracker, but it all end up "Not a bugs." or "Cannot re-produce." It's like they don't even watch the Videos. So frustrating, so this is my finals saying if all this is not a Bugs hope you guy take this feedback into consideration. Thanks!

[Marcher Technologies]

Well said.
We are not satisfied with quote or code in 3.4 because the normal user that actually uses the RTE has to fight it every step, swapping back and forth just to do basic sane formatting.
You have effectively forced the RTE user to use the STD 0.o.
::God I hate these live tags, please, please do not do this with , I would have to 'forget' the RTE exists::

[Michael]

I don't know, I think it's more of an issue that it's new and unfamiliar rather than something really broken. I'm certainly not finding that I have to fight it at every step to make it display a post like I want. Really, Marcher, how long did it take you to write that post above? Surely it wasn't some herculean effort involving multiple swaps back and forth between STD and RTE to write that, was it?

[Marcher Technologies]

I did not have to quote or code.... yes Michael, merely needing to quote or use code turns the RTE into a nightmare.

http://screencast.com/t/KxW2UVMUHqNd

The user that has never even touched STD mode is now forced into it to do anything with them, the OP is one.

[TracyIsland]

Well said.
We are not satisfied with quote or code in 3.4 because the normal user that actually uses the RTE has to fight it every step, swapping back and forth just to do basic sane formatting.
You have effectively forced the RTE user to use the STD 0.o.
::God I hate these live tags, please, please do not do this with , I would have to 'forget' the RTE exists::

Okay, I am trying out multi-quote and attempting to understand why this is so difficult.

I don't know, I think it's more of an issue that it's new and unfamiliar rather than something really broken. I'm certainly not finding that I have to fight it at every step to make it display a post like I want. Really, Marcher, how long did it take you to write that post above?

Surely it wasn't some herculean effort involving multiple swaps back and forth between STD and RTE to write that, was it?

• adding bullets
• and more bullets
• and even more bullets

Would like a space after the quote boxes, by default but other than that, I don't get it.

How does this quote issue affect the normal user? :rofl:

Conclusion: I am hard pressed to see why my community users would be so upset by this quoting system. Is this just a developer issue?

[Rimi]

I think you're overexaggerating on the quoting....

Regardless though I think the point here is that the direction that IPS is taking with the editor is one that no one is happy with, but we all know that Matt doesn't care and will keep moving forward with his plans to get rid of bbcode and compulse everyone to use the RTE.

You get used to it eventually. It's a learning process focused on developing for the future.

[Marcher Technologies]

Okay, I am trying out multi-quote and attempting to understand why this is so difficult.

Would like a space after the quote boxes, by default but other than that, I don't get it.

How does this quote issue affect the normal user? :rofl:

Conclusion: I am hard pressed to see why my community users would be so upset by this quoting system. Is this just a developer issue?

Try splitting them in any way, try removing space at the beginning of them, try to figure out who you quoted..... try actually using quotes as one once could(oh lookie, it stripped who you quoted).

Same for code(see vid, removing the space at the beginning of a quote or code generally kills the quote/code box). If it was a developer issue, the developer would just use source mode(as I am continually finding myself resort to), it is a general user issue.

[Marcher Technologies]

I think you're overexaggerating on the quoting....

Regardless though I think the point here is that the direction that IPS is taking with the editor is one that no one is happy with, but we all know that Matt doesn't care and will keep moving forward with his plans to get rid of bbcode and compulse everyone to use the RTE.

You get used to it eventually. It's a learning process focused on developing for the future.

That is the problem, this is producing a compulsion for people to use the STD that never had before, the reverse effect is occurring.

[Michael]

Since 3.4.1, I have never really had a problem doing any of that stuff. And I can remember in my head who I'm quoting without needing to see it in the quote box inside the editor.

[TracyIsland]

I think you're overexaggerating on the quoting....

me?

[Marcher Technologies]

No, me.
Fine, I'll just use the STD exclusively, been headed that way for quite a while anyway.
Remember, I am not the OP, I just concur with the OP. The general user-base that does use the RTE *is* struggling with quote and code for the reasons listed in OP.
I do not count, nor, really, do you Michael as a 'general user', we are 'power-users' in that we understand the guts of it, how it is working, how to avoid things like entire quote and code boxes removed, that we have to switch to STD to split quotes(double-enter stopped working in FF at .2), that using the RTE buttons will result in excess space, that [ code] simply no longer works in RTE, try explaining these quirks to the GP.
Or more truthfully, try to explain it to the GP before they leave the site in sheer frustration.

[TracyIsland]

I've thought about asking to have quote and multi-quote disabled and then mod the mod of the selective quote file in the marketplace. It seems so simple ... for the casual user. You just highlight, right click, and then select quote (at least that would be the action I would request from the developer)

[mat206]

Ugh, I quoted you Kandice but I couldn't break out of the quote box to actually type a reply. My solid recommendation for my community is going to be to turn off the RTE as it is effectively broken for posting code / quoting.

Trying to get everyone to switch from years of doing bbcode to nothing is pretty bad. To be honest, I think this "abandon bbcode" mentality makes it extremely difficult for all those who create custom bbcodes for various things. bbcodes are pretty powerful really.

[TracyIsland]

what am I supposed to glean from this post?

http://community.invisionpower.com/

[mat206]

This is quite telling inside the adminsourcesclasseseditorcomposite.php file..

There is a "getLegacyMode" boolean variable that is set to true by default. Then this.. which runs after htmlpurifier. I sincerely hope that our ability to do custom bbcodes isn't going to be lost.

		/* Legacy? So expects BBCode? Ew @todo remove for IPS 4 */
		if ( $this->getLegacyMode() )
		{
			$parser = new class_text_parser_legacy();
			
			$cleanContent = $parser->postEditor( $cleanContent );
		}

[Matt]

I think you're overexaggerating on the quoting....

Regardless though I think the point here is that the direction that IPS is taking with the editor is one that no one is happy with, but we all know that Matt doesn't care and will keep moving forward with his plans to get rid of bbcode and compulse everyone to use the RTE.

You get used to it eventually. It's a learning process focused on developing for the future.

Whoa, hang on there tiger. "No one is happy with the editor" is plainly not true. In each topic I've read about the editor requesting changes, there are other customers who do not want those changes at all.

"Matt doesn't care" is also very much not true. I cared so much about the editor I rewrote how the parsing engine handled BBCode and moved BBCode parsing inside CKEditor at great time expense to reduce bugs and improve performance.

No one is saying we're "removing BBCode" completely. There will always be a need to have a simple tag that expands into complex HTML on viewing. We've not formed a concrete plan for this yet in 4.0 so please don't read between the lines and draw incorrect conclusions.

Ugh, I quoted you Kandice but I couldn't break out of the quote box to actually type a reply. My solid recommendation for my community is going to be to turn off the RTE as it is effectively broken for posting code / quoting.

Trying to get everyone to switch from years of doing bbcode to nothing is pretty bad. To be honest, I think this "abandon bbcode" mentality makes it extremely difficult for all those who create custom bbcodes for various things. bbcodes are pretty powerful really.

Please create a bug report and link to the post that you had trouble with. If you can't break out of a quote it's almost always because of broken mark-up or P tags being mistakenly replaced with BRs at some point (usually older posts).

With regard to CODE and being 'forced' to use the button, other than changing habits I don't see what is so hard. One thing I can do is to make it so that when you are inside a CODE area, clicking the button will populate the pop-up with the current CODE contents so you can tweak it from within that box.

[Matt]

This is quite telling inside the adminsourcesclasseseditorcomposite.php file..

There is a "getLegacyMode" boolean variable that is set to true by default. Then this.. which runs after htmlpurifier. I sincerely hope that our ability to do custom bbcodes isn't going to be lost.

		/* Legacy? So expects BBCode? Ew @todo remove for IPS 4 */
		if ( $this->getLegacyMode() )
		{
			$parser = new class_text_parser_legacy();
			
			$cleanContent = $parser->postEditor( $cleanContent );
		}

IP.Board itself relies on custom BBCode (attach, media, sharedmedia, etc), so the ability to create custom tags that expand into HTML will never be removed.

The comment with the todo means that the content is in BBCode markup and not HTML so it needs converting. The "remove" bit is a reminder to make sure all legacy content is converted to HTML so we don't have to convert on the fly.

[Kandice]

Well Matt, in 3.4.1 the new code and quote user have to switch between the light switch back and fourth between their post to make it look right. Most user will not even bother to do this. It time consuming, take longer, and not user friendly. I just want to post everything and should able to manually type my BBCode and it should parsed correctly.

This is an example text that is paste in the RTE and quote it without using the Light Switch first. It misaligned everywhere and does not look correct. 3.3 does not have this problem.

General
Complete name : Cloud.Atlas.2012
Format : AVI
Format/Info : Audio Video Interleave
Format profile : OpenDML
Duration : 2h 52mn
Overall bit rate : 2 029 Kbps

Video
ID : 0
Format : MPEG-4 Visual
Format profile : Advanced Simple@L5
Format settings, BVOP : 2
Format settings, QPel : No
Format settings, GMC : No warppoints
Format settings, Matrix : Default (H.263)
Muxing mode : Packed bitstream
Codec ID : XVID
Codec ID/Hint : XviD
Duration : 2h 52mn
Bit rate : 1 634 Kbps
Width : 720 pixels
Height : 304 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 2.35:1
Frame rate : 23.976 fps
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0
Bit depth : 8 bits
Scan type : Progressive
Compression mode : Lossy
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.311
Writing library : XviD 1.2.1 (UTC 2008-12-04)


Audio
ID : 1
Format : AC-3
Format/Info : Audio Coding 3
Mode extension : CM (complete main)
Format settings, Endianness : Big
Codec ID : 2000
Duration : 2h 52mn
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 384 Kbps
Channel(s) : 2 channels
Channel positions : Front: L R
Sampling rate : 48.0 KHz
Bit depth : 16 bits
Compression mode : Lossy
Stream size : 473 MiB (19%)
Alignment : Split accross interleaves
Interleave, duration : 42 ms (1.00 video frame)
Interleave, preload duration : 500 ms

[Matt]

Kandice, if you click the CODE button on the editor first, then paste the contents into the pop-up, it'll retain its formatting.

Quote will not retain the formatting so well because it doesn't preserve whitespace like a PRE tag will.

[Kandice]

Here is the same text, but this time use the light switch first to paste it and quote it then switch back. Please know that in 3.3 it doesn't required me to do this and the text still align correctly.

After that, I have to hit Light Switch again to start a new line of my text and to get out of the Quote box area.

General
Complete name : Cloud.Atlas.2012
Format : AVI
Format/Info : Audio Video Interleave
Format profile : OpenDML
Duration : 2h 52mn
Overall bit rate : 2 029 Kbps


Video
ID : 0
Format : MPEG-4 Visual
Format profile : Advanced Simple@L5
Format settings, BVOP : 2
Format settings, QPel : No
Format settings, GMC : No warppoints
Format settings, Matrix : Default (H.263)
Muxing mode : Packed bitstream
Codec ID : XVID
Codec ID/Hint : XviD
Duration : 2h 52mn
Bit rate : 1 634 Kbps
Width : 720 pixels
Height : 304 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 2.35:1
Frame rate : 23.976 fps
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0
Bit depth : 8 bits
Scan type : Progressive
Compression mode : Lossy
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.311
Writing library : XviD 1.2.1 (UTC 2008-12-04)


Audio
ID : 1
Format : AC-3
Format/Info : Audio Coding 3
Mode extension : CM (complete main)
Format settings, Endianness : Big
Codec ID : 2000
Duration : 2h 52mn
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 384 Kbps
Channel(s) : 2 channels
Channel positions : Front: L R
Sampling rate : 48.0 KHz
Bit depth : 16 bits
Compression mode : Lossy
Stream size : 473 MiB (19%)
Alignment : Split accross interleaves
Interleave, duration : 42 ms (1.00 video frame)
Interleave, preload duration : 500 ms

And now I need to code my text, I hit the light switch again to code. Then when I edit my post because I want to add more Text in my Box I need to hit the light switch again because I can't put anything in my code box without doing so. Hitting return without in Light Switch mode will make text go outside the code box.

This switch back and fourth is time consuimg, not user friendly and take too much work. I like it much better in 3.3 where I can just type everything in one go.

Example sentence links
Example Sentence links
Example Sentence links

[Matt]

Again, quote tags no matter how you use them will not preserve whitespace because they are not PRE tags.

If you want to preserve whitespace, stay in RTE mode, click the CODE button and paste your text into the pop-up.

[Kandice]

Again, quote tags no matter how you use them will not preserve whitespace because they are not PRE tags.

If you want to preserve whitespace, stay in RTE mode, click the CODE button and paste your text into the pop-up.

Matt in 3.3 I can paste those text, quote it and it does it correctly. Now I have to hit the light switch to be in source mode and paste it to let it look correct. But ok.

And I wish you could make the code less of a hassle, so when we code something it leave one space gap at the bottom only. Right now when I code something, then I want to come back add new line of text inside the Code box. Have to hit the light switch to be in source mode again because I cannot add new line in the Code in RTE mode.

Basicly what I'm saying is that I can type and post everything in one go in 3.3. In 3.4.1 it a great draw back.

[Matt]

And I wish you could make the code less of a hassle, so when we code something it leave one space gap at the bottom only. Right now when I code something, then I want to come back add new line of text inside the Code box. Have to hit the light switch because I cannot add new line in the Code in RTE mode.

That is easy to fix. I'll go ahead and make that change.

[Rimi]

Whoa, hang on there tiger. "No one is happy with the editor" is plainly not true. In each topic I've read about the editor requesting changes, there are other customers who do not want those changes at all.

"Matt doesn't care" is also very much not true. I cared so much about the editor I rewrote how the parsing engine handled BBCode and moved BBCode parsing inside CKEditor at great time expense to reduce bugs and improve performance.

No one is saying we're "removing BBCode" completely. There will always be a need to have a simple tag that expands into complex HTML on viewing. We've not formed a concrete plan for this yet in 4.0 so please don't read between the lines and draw incorrect conclusions.

I see...the way you were saying things I was convinced you were removing bbcode completely. I guess either I'm just half retarded and don't really understand the things you say or you're just bad at explaining, or perhaps both. Regardless, I'm glad that I was wrong. :)

[Matt]

I can understand your confusion, I haven't had much of a chance to reply to feedback so these fears have been left to grow unchecked. :smile: