Subgroups

[Giray]

Some communities are fine with four or five member groups. Others use them to subdivide their membership extensively and might end up with dozens and dozens. Would IPS consider the possibility of creating the concept of subgroups? The subgroup would have the exact same permissions as the parent group but one could assign people differently within the parent group. This would prevent creating dozens of groups and then having to worry about keeping them synced as regards settings and permissions.

The concept is basically:

1. Parent group 1
   1. Sub group 1A (same permissions and settings as parent group 1)
   2. Sub group 1B (same permissions and settings as parent group 1)
   3. Sub group 1C (same permissions and settings as parent group 1)
2. Parent group 2
   1. Sub group 2A (same permissions and settings as parent group 2)
   2. Sub group 2B (same permissions and settings as parent group 2)
   3. Sub group 2C (same permissions and settings as parent group 2)

[Marc]

Im not sure Im following here. Wouldnt you just then end up with many subgroups you  would have to manage and keep synced, and thus not solve the issue?

[Giray]

Hi Marc.

Why do we have forum categories | forums | sub-forums? We do this because it provides a rational means of organizing discussions. I’m suggesting that organizing members is as critical, especially to those with large - or complex - memberships.

Simple scenario:

• Parent Group: Car owners (with a given set of IPS permissions and settings).
  • Sub group 1: Ford owners
  • Sub group 2: Chevrolet owners

Both Ford and Chevy owners have the same permissions and settings, so nothing to sync. However, and this is where it gets useful, I can email them separately, I can give them different badges, I can easily invite them into relevant clubs, etc.

Granted, there will be the temptation to allow for some customization in the subgroups; that will need to be thought through. In a perfect, albeit, more complex scenario, one could assign different permissions and settings within the subgroups, with the option to ‘revert’ back to the parent group’s permissions and settings. Thus, I might decide to grant different permissions to the Ford group but then later, revert back to the car owners’ parent group.

I really don’t know how complicated this would be on your end, but on our end, this is already happening, as I mentioned, in the category/forum/subforum environment. Also, note that in Wordpress, the ‘Members’ plugin does this by offering a Role hierarchy. On my larger Wordpress sites, this capability is incredibly useful and highly implemented.

Thanks!

[Marc]

From what you are describing there, thats exactly how secondary groups already work. you would have 3 groups

• Car owners
• Chevrolet Owners
• Ford Owners

 

Member x has

Main group: Car owners
Secondary group: Chevrolet Owners

And in fact its actually more flexible, as member x may then also purchase a ford, and want to have access to those too. So would be

Main group: Car owners
Secondary group: Chevrolet Owners and Ford Owners

 

Now for the groups themselves when you set up, you set up car owners. Then you create 2 copies of car owners, and then edit their permissions to give access to Chevrolet owners sections and ford owners sections respectively. Reverting would not be needed, as you would just remove the secondary group

As for emailing, you can target any group you want, just as you can now. 

[Giray]

Almost…

I’ll start at the end. Reverting. I meant reverting individual permissions and settings, not the entire thing. If reverting the entire subgroup, then agreed, might as well just delete it… then again, if you do that, you lose that ‘grouping’ so the members are no longer in that ‘subgroup’ because, de facto, it’s gone.

RE our current system vs. my proposal. It just becomes unmanageable to have 100 ‘groups’ that are then, I understand, assigned as secondary groups.

Another paradigm that could solve the dilemma is tagging groups. Say I could tag my members as Ford, Chevy, etc. but then actually use those tags to engage with that sub-‘tagged’ group, that might be a workaround. And yup, I get that clubs sorta do that, but not really. Plus, it now creates these humongous club groupings.

And I am certain you could come up with better ways of doing this. All I am suggesting is that there needs, in my opinion, to be a better way of organizing and ‘suborganizing’ or ‘segmenting’ users.

Food for thought 🤔

Edited July 20, 2023 by Giray

[Marc]

56 minutes ago, Giray said:

I’ll start at the end. Reverting. I meant reverting individual permissions and settings, not the entire thing. If reverting the entire subgroup, then agreed, might as well just delete it… then again, if you do that, you lose that ‘grouping’ so the members are no longer in that ‘subgroup’ because, de facto, it’s gone.

Im not following on this one. How does editing a subgroup and removing a permission differ to editing a group and removing a permission?

56 minutes ago, Giray said:

RE our current system vs. my proposal. It just becomes unmanageable to have 100 ‘groups’ that are then, I understand, assigned as secondary groups.

Unmanagable in what way?

 

I honestly think you may well be overthinking what you are trying to achieve on this one

[Giray]

No worries. Unfortunately, I must not be expressing myself adequately but I do see it clearly. Perhaps, instead of looking at it from a mechanical standpoint, the question might simply be, is there a time when a group within a group would be beneficial? And if not, then why do we do it with forums? Some platforms have opted for a flat structure, we have not. Same for groups.

Anyway, thanks for the time spent thinking about this and I’ll just keep using member groups the way they are.

[Adriano Faria]

@Giray, not sure this will help:

You can probably ask questions in the support topic: https://invisioncommunity.com/forums/topic/470120-member-segmentation-support-topic/

[Giray]

Thanks Adriano. So I’m not crazy… And this, I believe, should be a core IPS function. Meanwhile, I will check it out the app.

Edited July 20, 2023 by Giray