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Davyc

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  1. Agree
    Davyc reacted to Ocean West in Spark more real time engagement with the Trending Content feature   
    Interesting article but I think there needs to be a better way to call attention WHO a feature is applicable to or perhaps the blogs should be split between self hosting or Cloud or Business & Corporate/Enterprise plans. 
    Landed on this page and saw the minimum version 4.7.0 - figured that was me started scrolling and didn't read the first paragraph and get to the part to go to your ACP and nothing... 
    Perhaps your Version numbers should include a suffix: 
    4.7.0 Corporate/Enterprise 4.7.0 Business 4.7.0 Creator 4.7.0 Creator Pro 4.7.0 Self-Hosted 4.7.0 Platform ( all clients )  It has to be in the headline so we know the target audience. 🙂 
  2. Like
    Davyc got a reaction from Frank S. Hagan in New feature! A friendly reminder before posting   
    Anything that can help guide people to being more pleasant has to be a good thing.  It doesn't matter what kind of help or hint or rephrasing feature is added, there will always be ways to circumvent the ideology of the feature, but to that I would say do you really want people in your community that will make such an attempt when they know that it's there for a reason?  I like this feature and I hope community members everywhere will appreciate the thought that stands behind the idea.  Of course it, like any other kind of censorship, has to be measured and it will be up to each community administrator to make that determination; the key word there is 'measured' otherwise it could be seen as kind of totalitarian, which is not what it's meant to be.  Good call, good feature, far more intuitive than just word censorship 🙂
     
  3. Like
    Davyc got a reaction from Matt in New feature! A friendly reminder before posting   
    Anything that can help guide people to being more pleasant has to be a good thing.  It doesn't matter what kind of help or hint or rephrasing feature is added, there will always be ways to circumvent the ideology of the feature, but to that I would say do you really want people in your community that will make such an attempt when they know that it's there for a reason?  I like this feature and I hope community members everywhere will appreciate the thought that stands behind the idea.  Of course it, like any other kind of censorship, has to be measured and it will be up to each community administrator to make that determination; the key word there is 'measured' otherwise it could be seen as kind of totalitarian, which is not what it's meant to be.  Good call, good feature, far more intuitive than just word censorship 🙂
     
  4. Agree
    Davyc got a reaction from Ramsesx in How to inspire your community's members to engage   
    I agree with everything you say, but the caveat is that it is becoming increasingly difficult for people to launch a successful forum based community in the current climate, at least for hobbyists or people who want to present something that interests them personally.  I'm not, and never have said throughout this discussion, that it's impossible.  However, there are a whole bunch of people who come into the arena with great expectations and little understanding and end up disappointed when they see their efforts fall by the wayside.  And there is no getting away from the fact that SM is the main reason; before SM forum communities of all kinds were springing up and achieving their owners expectations.  The landscape has changed dramatically since then and it is incredibly difficult to achieve expectations.
    I have stressed throughout that I'm not forum bashing, quite the opposite I'm SM bashing.  But I do think it is irresponsible to big up expectations when they are seldom realised - and, again, I stress that this is in the hobbyist (for want of a better term) arena.  Businesses are in a completely different league, especially big businesses who have huge sums of money to spend on marketing and advertising. 
    There are some forum sites that have been around since before the rise of SM and they are still there today and the IPS community suite has grown beyond forums, if it hadn't I have doubts that you would still be around today.  The IPS suite of apps can be applied successfully in many ways from Blog sites, to Websites, to Commerce sites to galleries for artists and photographers; there is a wide range to choose from.  I'm a great advocate of the IPS range of apps; some of my clients have adopted the IPS model, but not the forums because they have tried them and they did nothing to add value to their venture.  If you want an example try https://www.thenationalchefsunion.co.uk/ which I designed and help manage for them.  They use Pages for articles and sponsors and commerce for their member subscriptions.  So I wish to make it absolutely clear that I am not IPS bashing, because I get the feeling that some in this discussion are being incredibly defensive of the software when there is no reason to be.  Hell, I even run two sites myself with the IPS software so if I were against it then I would most certainly not use it, nor continue to pay for it.  I also run a Xenforo site simply because a third party app used there is not available on the IPS platform, otherwise it would be.
    As @Rikki mentioned success is measured by a site creators own expectations and because they vary wildly it is not possible to put a figure on it, so to speak.  I just wanted to make it clear to prospective site creators that it is not as easy a task as throwing everything you have at your project and expect it to drive into action and that a long term commitment is required and a not so insignificant sum of money.  Advertising is not cheap and if it's included in your budget it needs to be directed in the correct way to maximise your ROI (return on investment).  It's tough out there and getting tougher.  If anyone wants to try, I say good luck to them as everyone loves a trier. 
    When I started into this arena Google had only been around for a few years and there were 2,410,067 website listed (source for these figures is Google itself)  as of Jan 14, 2022, there are currently over 1.92 billion websites. So there is a monumental number more and covering just about every imaginable topic.  Numbers may not be relevant in many instances but sometimes they do tell a story and paint a different picture between one time and another.
    Power to the elbows of the triers - I keep trying lol.
  5. Like
    Davyc reacted to Cannabis Connect in How to inspire your community's members to engage   
    Whoa! What a whopper of a topic and what amazing feedback.
    I have learned a lot from you all. Here's the business objectives and opportunities that may have been missed...
    1. Every site owner needs to assess their target prospects and determine the relevance of these types of cohorts and where they may want to gravitate. Are you serving a community of interest or a community of practice? Would Special Interest Groups, Birds of a Feather, Executive Think Tanks or some other form of "club" be most appropriate? Once you have your answers for these then move to point #2.
    2. Is it possible to offer any type of industry benchmarking data? Can you figure out how to share peer average and best-in-class data? This is not easy, nor inexpensive, but for business-oriented sites it can be a game-changer.
    3. Figure out how to run a regularly scheduled webcast.
    4. Make sure to offer "soft" gamification (i.e. point accrual" which is now possible via the IPS app, itself, or you can step up and run the Member Shop plugin app which features fine-grained gaming rules with a bank account. Now, for the biggest and most dramatic way to grab audience participation... drum roll please......
    5. This needs IPS leadership and software support... Offer "Hard" gamification where the points which have been accrued in the member's bank account can be swapped for ENJ (Enjin) coins. This is the route that Facebook will be taking and IPS can help us by developing a DAO, supporting Defi and Blockchain, Smart Contracts and NFTs. This will be a game changer especially if you, as site owner, know which Sponsors would like to offer NFT's coins, prizes, etc.
    I'd be glad to raise my hand to assist wth further guidance on how to get started.
     
    Best Regards,
    Phil Wilson
  6. Thanks
    Davyc got a reaction from Cannabis Connect in How to inspire your community's members to engage   
    I would like to be clear - I'm not bashing forums, although it may appear that way, simply acknowledging the fact that not everything is as rosy in the garden as some would like to believe.  I also believe it's the responsible act to inform those looking to start a community that it's not as easy as they may think.  I can remember the days when a forum site would open up and within a matter of days you could have hundreds of members all communicating with each other with loads of posts and replies; those days are no more and it's tough to get a handful of members and even when that happens very little else happens.
    I understand also that 'some' people have been lucky enough to build up a great and active community, but they are generally the exception and not the rule.  The problem is Social Media along with the fact that there are millions of sites out there that contain the information people are looking for - we have a world full of consumers, not contributors and I mean that in the sense that the general public are the consumers and that someone out there is contributing, but they are doing so in a way that does not require engagement.
    Some in this discussion have employed numbers to bolster their arguments:
    Twitter:
    Facebook:
    TikTok:
    Instagram:
    I image those dramatic figures will mean nothing, but we are talking about only four sites and they are 'active'.  I know of forum sites boasting 1 million members, but how many are active?  You can have 1 million members but if only a hundred or so are active then the 1 million number is meaningless.
    Again, I'm not knocking forums, simply realising what they are up against.  The question on every prospective forum community owners mind should be 'can I tempt them away from these places?'  If you have something different and unique perhaps some will drift your way.  The next question should be 'what is unique on the Internet that hasn't already been done?'.  When you have the answer to those two questions, there may be a chance.
    Man, I wish SM would disappear and people would realize the value of forum communities. But the other issue is mobile devices.  Forums are not easy to engage with using such a small device.  Imagine how long it would take for me to generate this reply on a mobile phone; I probably wouldn't live long enough to finish it lol.   
    And how exactly have I done that?  Simply because I do not agree with your assessments?  I will not just roll over and say that you're right.  Wanting to be right and actually being right is not the same thing.  I am attempting to be realistic whilst you are at the opposite pole.  You haven't said anything that convinces me that your arguments hold any water, so now you resort to rudeness rather than engaging with me and convince me that anything I have said is incorrect.  And I will say it again for the umpteenth time, I am not here to bash or knock forums, simply making my case that it is expensive, time consuming and often pointless for anyone new coming into the fold that may have high expectations of success.  If that's me trying to turn your arguments into a joke then I really do feel for you.  In your own words:
    Wasting my time here, as always.
  7. Thanks
    Davyc got a reaction from Cannabis Connect in How to inspire your community's members to engage   
    Although I said I was out of here, please don't twist my words.  I never said pre-social media was a 'guarantee' for success,  just that it was easier to cultivate a community.  And, just as an aside, I have said throughout my comments that they were directed at 'forum based communities' nothing more, nothing less.  I have travelled the road of BB Boards and Forums for over 20 years so I am no newcomer to the arena.  So please be guarded in your comments and restrict them to the points made in the discussion without unwarranted fabrications.  And it would be a warm welcome for anyone who has recently (in the last couple of years) started a 'forum based community' to come forward and relay their successes; I have my doubts that many will, but I would dearly love to be proved wrong. Now I really am out of here.
  8. Thanks
    Davyc got a reaction from Cannabis Connect in How to inspire your community's members to engage   
    I agree with everything you say, but the caveat is that it is becoming increasingly difficult for people to launch a successful forum based community in the current climate, at least for hobbyists or people who want to present something that interests them personally.  I'm not, and never have said throughout this discussion, that it's impossible.  However, there are a whole bunch of people who come into the arena with great expectations and little understanding and end up disappointed when they see their efforts fall by the wayside.  And there is no getting away from the fact that SM is the main reason; before SM forum communities of all kinds were springing up and achieving their owners expectations.  The landscape has changed dramatically since then and it is incredibly difficult to achieve expectations.
    I have stressed throughout that I'm not forum bashing, quite the opposite I'm SM bashing.  But I do think it is irresponsible to big up expectations when they are seldom realised - and, again, I stress that this is in the hobbyist (for want of a better term) arena.  Businesses are in a completely different league, especially big businesses who have huge sums of money to spend on marketing and advertising. 
    There are some forum sites that have been around since before the rise of SM and they are still there today and the IPS community suite has grown beyond forums, if it hadn't I have doubts that you would still be around today.  The IPS suite of apps can be applied successfully in many ways from Blog sites, to Websites, to Commerce sites to galleries for artists and photographers; there is a wide range to choose from.  I'm a great advocate of the IPS range of apps; some of my clients have adopted the IPS model, but not the forums because they have tried them and they did nothing to add value to their venture.  If you want an example try https://www.thenationalchefsunion.co.uk/ which I designed and help manage for them.  They use Pages for articles and sponsors and commerce for their member subscriptions.  So I wish to make it absolutely clear that I am not IPS bashing, because I get the feeling that some in this discussion are being incredibly defensive of the software when there is no reason to be.  Hell, I even run two sites myself with the IPS software so if I were against it then I would most certainly not use it, nor continue to pay for it.  I also run a Xenforo site simply because a third party app used there is not available on the IPS platform, otherwise it would be.
    As @Rikki mentioned success is measured by a site creators own expectations and because they vary wildly it is not possible to put a figure on it, so to speak.  I just wanted to make it clear to prospective site creators that it is not as easy a task as throwing everything you have at your project and expect it to drive into action and that a long term commitment is required and a not so insignificant sum of money.  Advertising is not cheap and if it's included in your budget it needs to be directed in the correct way to maximise your ROI (return on investment).  It's tough out there and getting tougher.  If anyone wants to try, I say good luck to them as everyone loves a trier. 
    When I started into this arena Google had only been around for a few years and there were 2,410,067 website listed (source for these figures is Google itself)  as of Jan 14, 2022, there are currently over 1.92 billion websites. So there is a monumental number more and covering just about every imaginable topic.  Numbers may not be relevant in many instances but sometimes they do tell a story and paint a different picture between one time and another.
    Power to the elbows of the triers - I keep trying lol.
  9. Like
    Davyc got a reaction from Michael R in How to inspire your community's members to engage   
    I agree with everything you say, but the caveat is that it is becoming increasingly difficult for people to launch a successful forum based community in the current climate, at least for hobbyists or people who want to present something that interests them personally.  I'm not, and never have said throughout this discussion, that it's impossible.  However, there are a whole bunch of people who come into the arena with great expectations and little understanding and end up disappointed when they see their efforts fall by the wayside.  And there is no getting away from the fact that SM is the main reason; before SM forum communities of all kinds were springing up and achieving their owners expectations.  The landscape has changed dramatically since then and it is incredibly difficult to achieve expectations.
    I have stressed throughout that I'm not forum bashing, quite the opposite I'm SM bashing.  But I do think it is irresponsible to big up expectations when they are seldom realised - and, again, I stress that this is in the hobbyist (for want of a better term) arena.  Businesses are in a completely different league, especially big businesses who have huge sums of money to spend on marketing and advertising. 
    There are some forum sites that have been around since before the rise of SM and they are still there today and the IPS community suite has grown beyond forums, if it hadn't I have doubts that you would still be around today.  The IPS suite of apps can be applied successfully in many ways from Blog sites, to Websites, to Commerce sites to galleries for artists and photographers; there is a wide range to choose from.  I'm a great advocate of the IPS range of apps; some of my clients have adopted the IPS model, but not the forums because they have tried them and they did nothing to add value to their venture.  If you want an example try https://www.thenationalchefsunion.co.uk/ which I designed and help manage for them.  They use Pages for articles and sponsors and commerce for their member subscriptions.  So I wish to make it absolutely clear that I am not IPS bashing, because I get the feeling that some in this discussion are being incredibly defensive of the software when there is no reason to be.  Hell, I even run two sites myself with the IPS software so if I were against it then I would most certainly not use it, nor continue to pay for it.  I also run a Xenforo site simply because a third party app used there is not available on the IPS platform, otherwise it would be.
    As @Rikki mentioned success is measured by a site creators own expectations and because they vary wildly it is not possible to put a figure on it, so to speak.  I just wanted to make it clear to prospective site creators that it is not as easy a task as throwing everything you have at your project and expect it to drive into action and that a long term commitment is required and a not so insignificant sum of money.  Advertising is not cheap and if it's included in your budget it needs to be directed in the correct way to maximise your ROI (return on investment).  It's tough out there and getting tougher.  If anyone wants to try, I say good luck to them as everyone loves a trier. 
    When I started into this arena Google had only been around for a few years and there were 2,410,067 website listed (source for these figures is Google itself)  as of Jan 14, 2022, there are currently over 1.92 billion websites. So there is a monumental number more and covering just about every imaginable topic.  Numbers may not be relevant in many instances but sometimes they do tell a story and paint a different picture between one time and another.
    Power to the elbows of the triers - I keep trying lol.
  10. Like
    Davyc got a reaction from NorthGeorgiaWX in How to inspire your community's members to engage   
    @opentype I appreciate your insight into your own success and applaud you for your efforts to develop your community, but I would argue in your case that you are the exception rather than the rule.
    As for the software itself from IPS, of course it can facilitate the smaller niche community creators, that's what it was initially created for and still follows that model as far as the software is concerned, but IPS as a company has larger ambitions than small communities and the lucrative world and call of the Corporates has seen a significant shift in their model.  There's nothing wrong with that, a company must do what it must to survive.
    You are correct also in stating that the cost of starting up new is significant, which is what I pointed to in an earlier post.  I see post after post after post on various sites from site creators (Admins) almost pleading for answers as to how they can grow their communities and the silence is mostly deafening; where someone does raise their voice, the rhetoric is exactly the same as it appears here.  People do follow the advice, I have myself in the past, but no one comes back and shouts of their success.
    Your comparisons to bands and Bieber is rather strange as the analogy is out of context and stating that Social Media is irrelevant is a dangerous statement to make in terms of someone wishing to start up their own site. You can discount SM but you can't ignore it.  As one platform begins to grow stale another pops up to take its place, such as the amazingly fast rise of TikTok in the face of strong competition.
    I understand the desire to stand behind forum communities and defend them in the face of adversity, if I could see such a stand making a significant difference I would be doing the same, but the sad reality is that people are just not interested anymore.  In little enclaves and niches that no one else is bothering about, maybe they flourish, but in the main they fail.  No one likes talking to an empty room, so unless you have a number of people behind you willing to register and post regularly and create that core of interest, then that room will remain empty.  
    It actually pains me to be having this discussion because I am all for forums and I want to see them flourish, but I will not encourage someone to invest a not so insignificant amount of time and money in something that will not even get off the starting blocks.  It is fundamentally wrong to do so.  The Internet is awash with information, articles and platforms that facilitate the needs of the masses and that's where you will find them.
  11. Like
    Davyc got a reaction from NorthGeorgiaWX in How to inspire your community's members to engage   
    That's the point though, I'm not complaining simply realising the fact that forums are not the golden chalice that they used to be and anyone 'new' who opens a site and has great expectations of it is going to be disappointed.  I'm not bothered whether anyone joins my sites or not, I create my sites for my own pleasure.  And I have no expectations, simply that I open a site and if anyone wants to partake they will be made very welcome.  But spinning up the same old rhetoric on how to make your community work is becoming really tired as it does not inspire nor do any of the tactics mentioned actually work; at least not for the simple hobbyist who wants to engage with people who like the same things they do, the issue is that everyone is on SM so they will not come to an unknown site made by someone they do not know
    Name them, show examples using the IPS (or any other forum) software - it's easy to say these things, but proving them is not so easy. Show new sites that have been around for only a year or so, not established sites with a long history.
    I never advocated that we should be, simply that the developers are attempting to adopt tweaks that mimic SM but they are just not enough to draw people away from SM.  These are all old debated issues that get dusted off every now and then, but the spin is exactly the same and it just doesn't work.  We need to face up to that fact and no matter what is done to forum community software it has had its day and the new king on the block is SM and, at present, there is nothing that can compete with it or shift it off #1 position.  In the end it's what people want and where they gravitate to and the only people truly interested in using forum community software are those old school stalwarts that understand it from the inside out.  I'm really happy to be proved wrong, but I've yet to see it.  I really am sorry to be such a damp squib, but that's the way I see it and that's the way it is; would that it were otherwise.
    I believe that's why IPS is more interested in Enterprise and Corporate clients and pitch their wares in that direction and I can't blame them because they want to survive and the little hobbyist sites that used to spring up in volume are no more and cannot provide a living for the IPS staff. That's life, you do what you have to do to survive.
  12. Like
    Davyc got a reaction from NorthGeorgiaWX in How to inspire your community's members to engage   
    Social Media and a dependency on mobile phones - period.
    It's pretty difficult to do something new with 'old school' (quoting you lol) software.  We can tweak and fiddle and add features similar to SM, but it's still old software and not conducive to the new world order out there that is dominating people's lives, I say that last with a bitter taste in my mouth because it has dumbed people down to the point where meaningful online conversations are a non-starter.
    With regards to your books, I too had a huge collection at one time (close to 3,000 of them) and they took up the entire spare bedroom; I too then discovered Kindle and now I have pretty close to those 3,000 books on a tiny little device no bigger than a book; and I love it.  But I feel for the community of people involved in the creation and distribution of books who are 'old school' and for the art that may eventually be lost.  It's called progress, but I often wonder at what price this so-called progress is inflicting.
    Believe me, I do wish it were otherwise, but we can't ignore the realities and bury our heads to what it actually happening out there.  
  13. Like
    Davyc got a reaction from NorthGeorgiaWX in How to inspire your community's members to engage   
    I humbly disagree, learning by the success of others is a positive way forward.  I'm not advocating that their success can be your success, rather it is a yardstick from which to judge your way forward.  The old adage of 'if you can do it, I can do it better' doesn't hold water.  What I'm looking for is successful sites that have managed to buck the SM trend and illustrate that it 'can be done'.  If that illustration is not forthcoming then we end up scratching our heads and wondering what we have done wrong, and as it often the case, it's not a question of wrong doing rather a circumstance that is unavoidable.
    Videos and words are great and teach the theory, but in this case theory doesn't always translate into reality.  So, again I call upon anyone who has successfully opened a thriving community within, say the last couple of years.  If no one can do that, then all the fine words and great intentions are meaningless.
    I hate to be disparaging and appear to give the impression that forums are dead ducks, but the truth is, for most people, they are.  I hate to think of the expense people go to buying the software, buying third party apps, paying a six monthly fee for updates, support and services, paying for domain names, hosting and all the hard work that goes into creating something they believe to be worthwhile only to see it fail and witness the huge disappointment that follows.
    If anyone can provide a sure fire, indisputable, way forward to generating traction then I am all ears, but repeating the same old same old isn't useful; seen it, heard it, tried it, done it all and even bought the T-Shirt over many years, and nada.  I'm quite happy plodding away in my own backyard tending my own garden and doing what I do for the pleasure it brings me, but my expectations of having a thriving and vibrant community are a distant memory and dream that will not materialise.  I do hope that as trends often have a way going full circle that the day forum communities become the mainstay of the Internet again will happen, but probably not in my lifetime.
  14. Like
    Davyc got a reaction from NorthGeorgiaWX in How to inspire your community's members to engage   
    That is key to opening any site - you have to deliver what others will want and, importantly, want to get involved with.  So, this begs the question can an inspired site creator generate something that is not on SM that people will gravitate towards?  That's a big question to which the answer is most likely no.  Even businesses are taking to SM to promote their wares simply because that's where most people are.  There is a place for niche markets but for those interested in what they would have to offer it then becomes a logistical problem of letting them know you exist and to do that you have to know where 'they' are now.  It may be on SM but simply going on SM doesn't mean that you will be found.
    There will be loads of ideas propagated as to 'how' to engage with people, there has been for many, many years - but for most people they just don't work.  The huge graveyard of abandoned sites out there is testament to this.  This is why I do what I do for my own personal pleasure and if by doing what I do, someone else gets something out of it, then I'm happy.  But people should not be under the illusion that there is a 'magic bullet' that will help out.  All of the things mentioned I've tried over the years since SM took hold and none of them have worked for me.  The big issue is that people are consumers now, not contributors, and the Internet has pandered to their needs by generating huge amounts of material that they can consume, so why would they want to contribute when it is easier for them to just meet up with people in a place that everyone goes to.
    The important issue at hand is that IPS had geared it's model towards business - big business.  The small fry may still hold a place in the developers hearts, after all it's thanks to them that IPS is where it's at now, but in all seriousness the contribution of the small fry pales in comparison as to what can be gained from big business.  I'm not saying that they don't care, rather it's a case of doing what needs to be done to survive and grow the business.  Hobbyists are no longer the cash pot they once were, and IPS's ambitions have grown alongside the software.
    It's a matter of being realistic - it's one thing to fly the corporate flag and make all the right noises, but it's really important to be clear who those noises are aimed at.
    If anyone is going to buy the IPS software (and there is no better) and open a site, do it for yourself and for the pleasure you will get from creating something special and close to your own heart, but be under no illusion that you will attract many hundreds or thousands of people - it won't happen.  I tend to me more pragmatic in my old age and I can see which way the wind blows, but, if by some miracle someone can come up with something so unique that loads will want to partake, I say good luck to you and I'll join up as soon as I know about it 🙂
  15. Like
    Davyc got a reaction from NorthGeorgiaWX in How to inspire your community's members to engage   
    All I can say is that the evidence speaks for itself - some others may have success, but I've yet to hear it.  I've been doing this for over 20 years and the landscape now compared to even 10 years ago is completely different and regrettably SM is the root cause for the empty corridors in forum sites.  As I mentioned it's no fault of the software, nor the commitment of site creators, it's people, or the lack thereof, that show little or no interest. Sad, but that's the way it is and this is echoed across platforms and across the Internet.  Established sites may offer a different view, but there's a huge difference between being established and just starting out.  For businesses, whether established or just starting, the landscape is different but even they have a tendency to gravitate to SM because that's where their clients are too 🙂  
  16. Agree
    Davyc got a reaction from NorthGeorgiaWX in How to inspire your community's members to engage   
    I do this on a daily basis for one of my communities (not based on IPS software lol) and will begin to do so on another of my revived communities in the coming days - I do this on Twitter.  The reactions to my Tweets are great with lots of likes and a few comments here and there, but, engagement through my community is non-existent.  Not even one single solitary soul out of hundreds of followers has registered and attempted to strike up a conversation.  Content?  There's oodles of it and all of it what these followers purport to be interested in.  So, being vocal, adding loads of content and promoting on SM leads to 'zilch'.
    I couldn't help but noticed your opening statement as being geared towards businesses - they have a different agenda to those wanting to create social content such as music, games, movies, politics and other such mainstream activities that people engage with every day.  They're out there (cue Twilight Zone music) but they are not on forum communities, they're on SM and that's where they are glued to.  The key point is how to dissolve that glue so they can become unstuck and move their tents elsewhere - like our forums.
    There's no real major faults with the software, in fact it is streets ahead of SM.  The issue is people and they will always gravitate to where there the majority of other people are and they won't budge.
    Here is an example of what I post every single day on Twitter and then retweet it later in my day so as to catch those just waking up elsewhere in the world.  I try to make it eye-catching and always make a comment, ask a question and provide a link to the album being mentioned:

    To date - I have Tweeted 154 albums by various artists.  I add a large number of albums each week and the end result is comments and likes on Twitter, zip, nada, nix, nowt on the site itself.
    So, content is important but when that content can be seen pretty much everywhere else on the Internet, why bother moving from where everyone else is?
    There are two options open to people wanting to start a new site (not a business) keep plugging away and try hard to get people to sign up, or don't bother in the first place, save yourself a boatload of time and money and just join everyone else on SM.  For me that second option is not even an option, so I keep plugging away.
    For businesses it's different as you already have a client base that you are selling to, so a community based site would be great for customer services, etc.  Much like this IPS site where clients are serviced and can get support.  Outside of that bubble the situation is totally different.  For sites outside the business bubble, if already established they may have a core who keep the place looking alive, for newbies it's a different story.  Such is the way of the world, which is fast becoming a crazy place, or as the film title said - It's a Mad, Mad, Mad, Mad World 🙂
  17. Like
    Davyc got a reaction from NorthGeorgiaWX in How to inspire your community's members to engage   
    I would like to be clear - I'm not bashing forums, although it may appear that way, simply acknowledging the fact that not everything is as rosy in the garden as some would like to believe.  I also believe it's the responsible act to inform those looking to start a community that it's not as easy as they may think.  I can remember the days when a forum site would open up and within a matter of days you could have hundreds of members all communicating with each other with loads of posts and replies; those days are no more and it's tough to get a handful of members and even when that happens very little else happens.
    I understand also that 'some' people have been lucky enough to build up a great and active community, but they are generally the exception and not the rule.  The problem is Social Media along with the fact that there are millions of sites out there that contain the information people are looking for - we have a world full of consumers, not contributors and I mean that in the sense that the general public are the consumers and that someone out there is contributing, but they are doing so in a way that does not require engagement.
    Some in this discussion have employed numbers to bolster their arguments:
    Twitter:
    Facebook:
    TikTok:
    Instagram:
    I image those dramatic figures will mean nothing, but we are talking about only four sites and they are 'active'.  I know of forum sites boasting 1 million members, but how many are active?  You can have 1 million members but if only a hundred or so are active then the 1 million number is meaningless.
    Again, I'm not knocking forums, simply realising what they are up against.  The question on every prospective forum community owners mind should be 'can I tempt them away from these places?'  If you have something different and unique perhaps some will drift your way.  The next question should be 'what is unique on the Internet that hasn't already been done?'.  When you have the answer to those two questions, there may be a chance.
    Man, I wish SM would disappear and people would realize the value of forum communities. But the other issue is mobile devices.  Forums are not easy to engage with using such a small device.  Imagine how long it would take for me to generate this reply on a mobile phone; I probably wouldn't live long enough to finish it lol.   
    And how exactly have I done that?  Simply because I do not agree with your assessments?  I will not just roll over and say that you're right.  Wanting to be right and actually being right is not the same thing.  I am attempting to be realistic whilst you are at the opposite pole.  You haven't said anything that convinces me that your arguments hold any water, so now you resort to rudeness rather than engaging with me and convince me that anything I have said is incorrect.  And I will say it again for the umpteenth time, I am not here to bash or knock forums, simply making my case that it is expensive, time consuming and often pointless for anyone new coming into the fold that may have high expectations of success.  If that's me trying to turn your arguments into a joke then I really do feel for you.  In your own words:
    Wasting my time here, as always.
  18. Like
    Davyc got a reaction from Ibai in How to inspire your community's members to engage   
    All I can say is that the evidence speaks for itself - some others may have success, but I've yet to hear it.  I've been doing this for over 20 years and the landscape now compared to even 10 years ago is completely different and regrettably SM is the root cause for the empty corridors in forum sites.  As I mentioned it's no fault of the software, nor the commitment of site creators, it's people, or the lack thereof, that show little or no interest. Sad, but that's the way it is and this is echoed across platforms and across the Internet.  Established sites may offer a different view, but there's a huge difference between being established and just starting out.  For businesses, whether established or just starting, the landscape is different but even they have a tendency to gravitate to SM because that's where their clients are too 🙂  
  19. Thanks
    Davyc reacted to Jordan Miller in How to inspire your community's members to engage   
    Appreciate you weighing in! That's the beauty of a community - that we can engage in ongoing discussions and share our perspectives. 🙏 
  20. Like
    Davyc got a reaction from Ramsesx in How to inspire your community's members to engage   
    @Sonya* everything you say is true 'if' you are a business or service provider, but again this does not apply to hobbyists.  And it's never about competing with SM because there is no competition, SM has almost everything else beat hands down.  Not because it's better or that it offers everything you mention, but because that's where everyone is who wishes to engage with others.  There is an abundance of sites out there that cover all the things you mention.  It's a consumer's market and if you can provide what consumers want then, most likely, you're a business.
    Take this very community - I would hazard that there are thousands of registered members (I know there were before IPS stopped showing the numbers) but only a very tiny proportion actively engage with others in topics such as this, most will probably only visit for support.
    Even if you offer something that people cannot do, or even would not do, on SM is no guarantee that they will visit your site, providing they know about it and can find it. The issue that has been mentioned a number of times often seems to take a back seat when, in fact, it is probably the second reason after SM why people don't want to engage in forums - mobile phones.  SM is suited to that medium whereas forums can be difficult to navigate on a mobile.  Gone are the days of the desktop, even the once preferred replacement the laptop is being superseded by mobiles.  It's easy, and practical, to have a mobile sitting next to you on your desk at work watching for comments, posts, likes, etc on SM and react to them swiftly and this carries forward into home life where people rely on their mobile phones for contact with the outside world.  This is taken from a Google search:
    I believe that statement is quite profound.  So, I say again that all the fine words, all the inspiring methods to get traction, they don't work for the average Joe who wants to carve out a little space in a vast ocean of content on the Internet.  I wish it were otherwise, but at some point we have to be realistic and understand that this is not the age of the forum community anymore.  Do it for yourself, do it for the pleasure of creating something that you feel passionate about, but be under no illusion that what you do is going to set the world on fire.  If you're a business intent on selling something then having a community for support issues and suggestions is probably fine providing you have a reasonable budget for promotion and advertising, otherwise it falls back to creating something for personal pleasure.
    I'd love to hear from community admins who have succeeded in creating a vibrant and active community, rather than the fine words of 'how to'.  When I say vibrant and active I mean with more than a handful of die-hard active members.  Add them here and say when you started, how many members you have in total and how many are active on a regular basis. Provide a link so we can see what it is you are providing.  These will be more useful to prospective and current admins - when you see something in action it speaks far louder than words.
    I missed the above bit, but I did say in my original post that I add a comment, question and a link to the album and I get comments, likes and retweets from others that follow me, but they have no desire to go further by registering.  Why that is, well, it's an unknown.  The other issue with Twitter is the limited number of characters that can be used so it's not easy to give a blow by blow reason for choosing the album 🙂
  21. Like
    Davyc got a reaction from Ramsesx in How to inspire your community's members to engage   
    That is key to opening any site - you have to deliver what others will want and, importantly, want to get involved with.  So, this begs the question can an inspired site creator generate something that is not on SM that people will gravitate towards?  That's a big question to which the answer is most likely no.  Even businesses are taking to SM to promote their wares simply because that's where most people are.  There is a place for niche markets but for those interested in what they would have to offer it then becomes a logistical problem of letting them know you exist and to do that you have to know where 'they' are now.  It may be on SM but simply going on SM doesn't mean that you will be found.
    There will be loads of ideas propagated as to 'how' to engage with people, there has been for many, many years - but for most people they just don't work.  The huge graveyard of abandoned sites out there is testament to this.  This is why I do what I do for my own personal pleasure and if by doing what I do, someone else gets something out of it, then I'm happy.  But people should not be under the illusion that there is a 'magic bullet' that will help out.  All of the things mentioned I've tried over the years since SM took hold and none of them have worked for me.  The big issue is that people are consumers now, not contributors, and the Internet has pandered to their needs by generating huge amounts of material that they can consume, so why would they want to contribute when it is easier for them to just meet up with people in a place that everyone goes to.
    The important issue at hand is that IPS had geared it's model towards business - big business.  The small fry may still hold a place in the developers hearts, after all it's thanks to them that IPS is where it's at now, but in all seriousness the contribution of the small fry pales in comparison as to what can be gained from big business.  I'm not saying that they don't care, rather it's a case of doing what needs to be done to survive and grow the business.  Hobbyists are no longer the cash pot they once were, and IPS's ambitions have grown alongside the software.
    It's a matter of being realistic - it's one thing to fly the corporate flag and make all the right noises, but it's really important to be clear who those noises are aimed at.
    If anyone is going to buy the IPS software (and there is no better) and open a site, do it for yourself and for the pleasure you will get from creating something special and close to your own heart, but be under no illusion that you will attract many hundreds or thousands of people - it won't happen.  I tend to me more pragmatic in my old age and I can see which way the wind blows, but, if by some miracle someone can come up with something so unique that loads will want to partake, I say good luck to you and I'll join up as soon as I know about it 🙂
  22. Agree
    Davyc reacted to opentype in How to inspire your community's members to engage   
    There is an underlying, more important question regarding the question whether social media promotion works: 
    Does guest traffic create conversions (i.e. registrations and active members) on the specific website? If yes, then creating more traffic (e.g. through social media posts) creates more conversions. If the answer is “no”, then all attempts to create more traffic are pointless. Wether it’s paid ads, social media posts, newsletters or whatever. The website must first deliver something that users would want to or even need to sign up for. 
  23. Agree
    Davyc got a reaction from Bethanyrayne in How to inspire your community's members to engage   
    I do this on a daily basis for one of my communities (not based on IPS software lol) and will begin to do so on another of my revived communities in the coming days - I do this on Twitter.  The reactions to my Tweets are great with lots of likes and a few comments here and there, but, engagement through my community is non-existent.  Not even one single solitary soul out of hundreds of followers has registered and attempted to strike up a conversation.  Content?  There's oodles of it and all of it what these followers purport to be interested in.  So, being vocal, adding loads of content and promoting on SM leads to 'zilch'.
    I couldn't help but noticed your opening statement as being geared towards businesses - they have a different agenda to those wanting to create social content such as music, games, movies, politics and other such mainstream activities that people engage with every day.  They're out there (cue Twilight Zone music) but they are not on forum communities, they're on SM and that's where they are glued to.  The key point is how to dissolve that glue so they can become unstuck and move their tents elsewhere - like our forums.
    There's no real major faults with the software, in fact it is streets ahead of SM.  The issue is people and they will always gravitate to where there the majority of other people are and they won't budge.
    Here is an example of what I post every single day on Twitter and then retweet it later in my day so as to catch those just waking up elsewhere in the world.  I try to make it eye-catching and always make a comment, ask a question and provide a link to the album being mentioned:

    To date - I have Tweeted 154 albums by various artists.  I add a large number of albums each week and the end result is comments and likes on Twitter, zip, nada, nix, nowt on the site itself.
    So, content is important but when that content can be seen pretty much everywhere else on the Internet, why bother moving from where everyone else is?
    There are two options open to people wanting to start a new site (not a business) keep plugging away and try hard to get people to sign up, or don't bother in the first place, save yourself a boatload of time and money and just join everyone else on SM.  For me that second option is not even an option, so I keep plugging away.
    For businesses it's different as you already have a client base that you are selling to, so a community based site would be great for customer services, etc.  Much like this IPS site where clients are serviced and can get support.  Outside of that bubble the situation is totally different.  For sites outside the business bubble, if already established they may have a core who keep the place looking alive, for newbies it's a different story.  Such is the way of the world, which is fast becoming a crazy place, or as the film title said - It's a Mad, Mad, Mad, Mad World 🙂
  24. Like
    Davyc got a reaction from SeNioR- in Twenty years of Invision Community   
    I was an early adopter back in 2002 when the software was free and in direct competition with phpBB, though I have to say that there was no real competition as Invision Board was streets ahead and a far easier to manage piece of software.  It was the year of Pop Idol and the final was being fought between Will Young and Gareth Gates - Will Young won it and a community sprung up which I joined singing (no pun intended) the praises of Will Young.  It was on phpBB and whether it was the software or the server the site kept going down, much to the frustration of its members, so I offered an alternative using Invision Board.  I can't remember what I called the site, but everyone referred to it as Will's summer house and everyone used to flock to it when the other went down.  It was a fun time and it lit the fire beneath me that keeps me coming back and opening up sites - though none of them garner much interest these days because of DSM (that's dumb social media), but I could care less because I get as much fun out of engineering sites as I do seeing those few who join and use them.
    My favourite site is one I dropped a little while ago and I am now feeling the pangs of regret infiltrating my mind to the extent where I may just bring it back and if no one uses it I don't really care, because I will get fun out of breathing life back into it and using it myself lol.
    This software has come a long way since those heady days when opening a site saw hundreds of people joining up in a matter of days, the software has evolved greatly whilst the audience capacity has devolved, but there's a trend that often sees things go around in a circle and what once fell from grace becomes fashionable again and I can see this happening with forums when DSM is reigned in and the companies responsible for them are brought to task; that's starting to happen now, so who knows, we may see forum audiences flocking back to us in the near future (he says whilst not holding his breath lol).
    Congratulations to the team for their persistence and endurance and bringing us to this momentous milestone 🙂
  25. Like
    Davyc got a reaction from Matt in Twenty years of Invision Community   
    I was an early adopter back in 2002 when the software was free and in direct competition with phpBB, though I have to say that there was no real competition as Invision Board was streets ahead and a far easier to manage piece of software.  It was the year of Pop Idol and the final was being fought between Will Young and Gareth Gates - Will Young won it and a community sprung up which I joined singing (no pun intended) the praises of Will Young.  It was on phpBB and whether it was the software or the server the site kept going down, much to the frustration of its members, so I offered an alternative using Invision Board.  I can't remember what I called the site, but everyone referred to it as Will's summer house and everyone used to flock to it when the other went down.  It was a fun time and it lit the fire beneath me that keeps me coming back and opening up sites - though none of them garner much interest these days because of DSM (that's dumb social media), but I could care less because I get as much fun out of engineering sites as I do seeing those few who join and use them.
    My favourite site is one I dropped a little while ago and I am now feeling the pangs of regret infiltrating my mind to the extent where I may just bring it back and if no one uses it I don't really care, because I will get fun out of breathing life back into it and using it myself lol.
    This software has come a long way since those heady days when opening a site saw hundreds of people joining up in a matter of days, the software has evolved greatly whilst the audience capacity has devolved, but there's a trend that often sees things go around in a circle and what once fell from grace becomes fashionable again and I can see this happening with forums when DSM is reigned in and the companies responsible for them are brought to task; that's starting to happen now, so who knows, we may see forum audiences flocking back to us in the near future (he says whilst not holding his breath lol).
    Congratulations to the team for their persistence and endurance and bringing us to this momentous milestone 🙂
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