Jump to content

Invision Community Blog


Managing successful online communities


4.4: Recurring PayPal Payments and more with Braintree and Commerce

Braintree is a payment gateway provided by PayPal which provides some great additional features for PayPal transactions including a significantly improved recurring payments model. We are delighted to be bringing full support for Braintree for Commerce in Invision Community 4.4.

What is Braintree?

Braintree is a payment gateway provided by PayPal which supports taking payments by credit cards (including Apple Pay and Google Pay) and Venmo as well as PayPal, providing a good option for communities wanting to use a single payment gateway, and also brings improved functionality for recurring PayPal transactions.

For PayPal transactions, there are no additional fees and the checkout experience uses the normal PayPal experience your customers are used to.

Recurring PayPal Improvements

Recurring payments / Billing Agreements in PayPal have up until now been initiated by PayPal. Invision Community tells PayPal what the renewal terms of a purchase are, but then it's up to PayPal to take that payment and notify your community when it succeeds (or fails).

This comes with a number of limitations and problems. It makes it difficult for you as an admin to modify an existing purchase or for the customer to upgrade/downgrade. It also means the customer has to create separate Billing Agreements for each purchase. Most significantly though, it means if there is a delay in receiving the payment (such as an expired card) it is sometimes unclear what should happen on your community's end, and how it can be resolved if/when the payment is received.

Other payment gateways work the other way around. When a customer pays by card, for example, they have the option of storing their card details. Later, if they make another purchase or a renewal invoice is generated, Invision Community can tell the gateway to recharge the same card - and if it fails, allow the customer to provide an alternative payment method. This allow both you and your customers to have much greater control, and is much more reliable.

Braintree resolves this by allowing customers when paying with PayPal to save their PayPal account in the same way they would save a credit card on file. When paying with PayPal, users will see a simple checkbox which, if checked, will allow future payments to be taken with PayPal automatically.

Screen Shot 2018-12-28 at 10.19.40.png

Storing PayPal Accounts for Recurring Payments

Other Features

In addition to an improved checkout experience, our integration with Braintree supports:

  • Taking payments by Credit Card, including 3DSecure checking and the ability for customer to store card details on file. Braintree uses a fully PCI-compliant method of taking card details in a way that ensures the card information never reaches your server.
  • Apple Pay and Google Pay
  • Venmo, which also allows storing accounts in the same way as PayPal accounts.
  • Offering PayPal Credit
  • Handling chargebacks/disputes
  • Support for Braintree's Advanced Fraud Tools

Screen Shot 2018-12-28 at 10.35.11.png

A Disputed PayPal Transaction

Existing Setups and Upgrading

The existing PayPal gateway will continue to be available for basic PayPal integration, and your existing set up will continue to work exactly as it does now after upgrading.

If you are using PayPal, especially if you are using Billing Agreements, we strongly recommend switching to Braintree after upgrading. While it isn't possible to convert existing Billing Agreements, you can allow existing ones to continue to work and use Braintree for new purchases.

Please note that while existing setups will work fine, from 4.4 it will no longer be possible to set up a new PayPal method with either Billing Agreements, or to take payments by card, as PayPal has deprecated the API this was using in favour of Braintree and it can no longer be enabled on new accounts.

As mentioned though, this does not affect any existing setups, which, if you do not switch to Braintree, will continue to work as they do now.

This blog is about our upcoming release Invision Community 4.4.


Comments



Recommended Comments

Great stuff here. Does this use webhooks or something similar to handle events that occur on the PayPal side? For example, if a user cancels an agreement from PayPal, will it notify commerce?

Share this comment


Link to comment
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, HeadStand said:

Great stuff here. Does this use webhooks or something similar to handle events that occur on the PayPal side? For example, if a user cancels an agreement from PayPal, will it notify commerce?

Other than notifying Commerce about a dispute (which does use a webhook), everything is initiated by Commerce's end. If a user revokes permission for the recurring charges from their PayPal account then the next time Commerce tries to charge it, it will treat it the same as it would a declined/expired credit card: it will try to use any other payment methods they have on their account and, failing that, will send them a renewal invoice.

Share this comment


Link to comment
Share on other sites

1. When paying with PayPal, users see checkbox to automatically pay by PayPal.  Is this turned on by default? 

2. Apple Pay, Google Pay, and Venmo - Do we define those as payment gateway on our end and offer as an option during check out? Or they're an option when users check out through the Braintree gateway? 

3. Recommend switching to Braintree - do you really mean fake switch, because you can't actually convert existing subscriptions.  You mean keep the PayPal gateway active, but don't offer as a checkout option right? Which means we have to edit the setting in each product or subscription.  

Share this comment


Link to comment
Share on other sites

What if you are using stripe for credit cards and have paypal set up for just paypal, is there a way to move away from stripe for credit cards without disruption to existing subscriptions?

Share this comment


Link to comment
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Joel R said:

1. When paying with PayPal, users see checkbox to automatically pay by PayPal.  Is this turned on by default? 

2. Apple Pay, Google Pay, and Venmo - Do we define those as payment gateway on our end and offer as an option during check out? Or they're an option when users check out through the Braintree gateway? 

3. Recommend switching to Braintree - do you really mean fake switch, because you can't actually convert existing subscriptions.  You mean keep the PayPal gateway active, but don't offer as a checkout option right? Which means we have to edit the setting in each product or subscription.  

  1. Yes it is.
  2. Just like with Stripe you set up each as a separate payment method (but using the same credentials). This allows you to control where they are available (for example, since Apple Pay cannot handle recurring payments you might want to offer that only for products which don't have renewals). They will automatically hide if the user's device doesn't support them (Apple Pay can only be used on Apple products, for example).
  3. You can set the "Available To" setting in a payment method (which controls which countries it is available to) to none of them, which effectively "disables" a payment method.
1 hour ago, AlexWebsites said:

What if you are using stripe for credit cards and have paypal set up for just paypal, is there a way to move away from stripe for credit cards without disruption to existing subscriptions?

You can keep using Stripe for cards and just switch to Braintree for PayPal. If you wanted to switch everything to Braintree to have everything in one location, you would lose cards customers have stored on file (though this would be handled gracefully - they'll just be sent an invoice like they would if their card had expired).

Share this comment


Link to comment
Share on other sites

Will this have Braintree split payment PayPal adaptive?

Where buy IPS could be used as a marketplace for various sellers. 

After each sale, the payment is split between the site admin and seller automatically via Braintree.

 

Edited by beats23

Share this comment


Link to comment
Share on other sites
On 1/4/2019 at 4:41 PM, beats23 said:

Will this have Braintree split payment PayPal adaptive?

Where buy IPS could be used as a marketplace for various sellers. 

After each sale, the payment is split between the site admin and seller automatically via Braintree.

 

Not at this time.

20 hours ago, SJ77 said:

I applied for Braintree long ago and they denied me with zero explanation. Only said my site was unfit. No option for appeal. They can kiss my ***

Most gateways, including Stripe, Braintree, and PayPal, do not allow most types of adult content. It was probably that. Obviously this is out of our control.

19 hours ago, Cav3y said:

Looks fantastic.  My only concern is the $178 for one striped polo shirt!

I have expensive tastes 😂 (also specific purchase amounts trigger certain behaviours when in testing mode).

Share this comment


Link to comment
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Mark said:

Will this have Braintree split payment PayPal adaptive?

Where buy IPS could be used as a marketplace for various sellers. 

After each sale, the payment is split between the site admin and seller automatically via Braintree.


Not at this time.

 

 

Cool stuff, Do add this in the future if you can.

Share this comment


Link to comment
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, PoC2 said:

Initially very interested. Then I did a bit of research and read some reviews of Braintree, so I may pass on this implementation.

 

Thanks for posting.

Although looking at Stripe they have pretty bad reviews too and I've never had an issue with them. It seems the only people who go to these review sites are ones that have had a bad experience so they can vent frustration.

Edited by Tom S.

Share this comment


Link to comment
Share on other sites

I bought Commerce in the BF Sale and haven't installed it yet. Those Braintree reviews are a real eye opener. I haven't done e-commerce yet, but I thought Stripe and PayPal were the best options for member subscriptions. I just want a no fuss way to try to cover some website costs. Scary stuff.

Share this comment


Link to comment
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Tom S. said:

Although looking at Stripe they have pretty bad reviews too and I've never had an issue with them. It seems the only people who go to these review sites are ones that have had a bad experience so they can vent frustration.

This. For most reviews actually. 

That said. PayPal for PayPal (or Venmo I guess?) only, Stripe for credit/debit. Wish I punched up on Stripe stock years ago. 

Stripe is so good I rarely even look at the Stripe dashboard. It's for all intents and purposes utterly reliable and routine. Also it's not PayPal.

Share this comment


Link to comment
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, Tom S. said:

Are there any noticeable differences between using Stripe and Braintree to accept and store card payments?

Not to the end user.

4 hours ago, Tom S. said:

Thanks for posting.

Although looking at Stripe they have pretty bad reviews too and I've never had an issue with them. It seems the only people who go to these review sites are ones that have had a bad experience so they can vent frustration.

Mostly from people who either didn't read the terms and got their accounts closed or are confused about how chargebacks work (which is not something the gateway has any control over).

Share this comment


Link to comment
Share on other sites
18 hours ago, Mark said:

Mostly from people who either didn't read the terms and got their accounts closed or are confused about how chargebacks work

I've read further (and more widely). I think after 30 years I will let the youngsters take the bleeding edge while I wait and watch a while.

Share this comment


Link to comment
Share on other sites
On 1/5/2019 at 3:37 PM, All Astronauts said:

Stripe is so good I rarely even look at the Stripe dashboard. It's for all intents and purposes utterly reliable and routine. Also it's not PayPal.

Just to follow up with another important point.

Accounts can and will get held/closed/messed with for "reasons". Could be good reasons, could be bad, could be lol you did nothing wrong but hah no money for you while we "investigate" and keep your account inaccessible for x-amount of time.

If you receive your site income through a SINGLE gateway you are asking for all the trouble in the world. Roll with two (or more) and protect yourself.

Share this comment


Link to comment
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, All Astronauts said:

If you receive your site income through a SINGLE gateway you are asking for all the trouble in the world. Roll with two (or more) and protect yourself.

Wise words.

Share this comment


Link to comment
Share on other sites
21 hours ago, PoC2 said:

I've read further (and more widely). I think after 30 years I will let the youngsters take the bleeding edge while I wait and watch a while.

I'm not sure if you are referring to the payment gateway (Braintree) or the integration within our community suite.

If the former, Braintree was founded in 2007 (over a decade ago), acquired Venmo in 2011, and has been owned by PayPal since 2013. They're not really a "new kid on the block" in terms of payment processing.

Share this comment


Link to comment
Share on other sites
Just now, bfarber said:

They're not really a "new kid on the block" in terms of payment processing.

No they're not, but review of their services  have been... mixed – especially for smaller businesses. It's also an "arms-length" PayPal company. As I said. I will wait and see how others' fare.

Share this comment


Link to comment
Share on other sites

From Braintree's acceptable use policy.

Quote

You may not use the Payment Services in connection with any product, service, transaction or activity that involves:

 Membership subscriptions > 1 year (exceptions apply if you get our prior written approval)

How does stack up against those of us that offer membership subscriptions? Are we all likely to be rejected?

Share this comment


Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Add a comment...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

  Ask A Question ×