Jordan Miller Posted March 28, 2021 Share Posted March 28, 2021 Hey IC fam, got two little questions for you. tl;dr in bold. I use SendGrid to send emails from my community BreatheHeavy | Exhale. If someone unsubscribes from my newsletter (I send using Bulk Mail), then they also get unsubscribed from everything. Meaning, if they need to reset their password in the future, they can't because they unsubscribed. I get people emailing me all the time saying they didn't receive the forgot password email. It appears it's because at some point they unsubscribed. Question 1.) How do you guys go about avoiding this? If they want to unsubscribe from my newsletter, I'd still like for them to get the automated emails like notifications, password resets, things like that. Question 2.) Is there a way for a member to resubscribe? If I use the "newsletter" block, it won't show because they're already logged in right (I tried adding the block to an example page but nothing shows). Your insight would be greatly appreciated! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morrigan Posted March 28, 2021 Share Posted March 28, 2021 Q1) How are they unsubscribing? Normally when they unsubscribe from the newsletter this doesn't stop other things. Most likely you are using Sendgrid's unsubscribe and you would likely have to discuss this with them or get some sort of mod to undo this miess. Q2) If they aren't subscribed to your newsletter that block shows up (last I checked it doesn't show to guests at all). What it sounds like is that they are subscribed to your newsletter but they have unsubscribed from receiving your emails through sendgrid and so sendgrid isn't sending anything. You should be using the default IPS subscribe/unsubscribe stuff, not sendgrid's which is likely your downfall here. Linux-Is-Best and Jordan Miller 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Linux-Is-Best Posted March 28, 2021 Share Posted March 28, 2021 I think you have just highlighted an important reason why the two should be separate. Some people do not want to receive newsletters, which is perfectly fine (I don't use them myself). But they should receive system e-mail upon request, such as resetting their password. I am confused to hear that somehow the two have been linked together. Jordan Miller 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morrigan Posted March 28, 2021 Share Posted March 28, 2021 Just now, Linux-Is-Best said: I think you have just highlighted an important reason why the two should be separate. Some people do not want to receive newsletters, which is perfectly fine (I don't use them myself). But they should receive system e-mail upon request, such as resetting their password. I am confused to hear that somehow the two have been linked together. This is how the newsletter works currently. If you're having problems with it then there is something larger as far as an issue. Receiving bulk mail from the site is NOT under the same umbrella as receiving notification emails etc. THEY ARE separate. Jordan Miller and Linux-Is-Best 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nathan Explosion Posted March 28, 2021 Share Posted March 28, 2021 5 minutes ago, breatheheavy said: If I use the "newsletter" block, it won't show because they're already logged in right. Wrong 5 minutes ago, breatheheavy said: I tried adding the block to an example page but nothing shows Because you are viewing the page as someone who has signed up for the newsletter. Jordan Miller 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Linux-Is-Best Posted March 28, 2021 Share Posted March 28, 2021 2 minutes ago, Morrigan said: This is how the newsletter works currently. If you're having problems with it then there is something larger as far as an issue. Receiving bulk mail from the site is NOT under the same umbrella as receiving notification emails etc. THEY ARE separate. That's good to know. Looking forward to 4.6 👍 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morrigan Posted March 28, 2021 Share Posted March 28, 2021 1 minute ago, Linux-Is-Best said: That's good to know. Looking forward to 4.6 👍 This is how it works NOW. Its always been how it worked. When you sign up for the newsletter/admin communication you are signing up to allow for "bulk mail" that the admin sends. It does not in any way affect the notifications etc. Linux-Is-Best 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Linux-Is-Best Posted March 28, 2021 Share Posted March 28, 2021 (edited) 14 minutes ago, Morrigan said: This is how it works NOW. Its always been how it worked. When you sign up for the newsletter/admin communication you are signing up to allow for "bulk mail" that the admin sends. It does not in any way affect the notifications etc. I must apologize for being short-worded with my answers. I fear in my attempt to be short and direct, I have left the wrong impression. I understood that is how it works now, and that is how it has worked. My initial comment was for @breatheheavy as I was confused and puzzled on how he had managed to unite the e-mail in such a fashion. SendGrid (https://sendgrid.com) as I understood it was a mailing service, and I was puzzled how that server was somehow undermining the internal e-mail system. I admit to ignorance (not knowing better in this instance on how that can happen). I made my reply before I knew you had replied. Once you read my comment, I appreciate you took the time to clarify that the two (newsletters -vs.- general e-mails) should operate independently. While I already knew this, I was appreciative that you took the time to address me anyways (thanks). I quickly said that it was good to know in my short-sightedness and that I am looking forward to 4.6. Which I am looking forward to since it will support PHP 8. But there was no way for you to know why I am waiting for 4.6, and my pleasantry comment, with my effort to be short-worded, seems to have given the wrong impression. I apologize for my miscommunication. Edited March 28, 2021 by Linux-Is-Best mistype Jordan Miller, Morrigan and Maxxius 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morrigan Posted March 28, 2021 Share Posted March 28, 2021 3 minutes ago, Linux-Is-Best said: I apologize for my miscommunication. No worries. I was just trying to make sure it was clear that is how it works and always how it worked so no one gets confused about it if they read the thread. IIRC @breatheheavy modified their email templates to use the sendgrid unsubscribe instead of the IPS unsubscribe which is where I believe the core of their issue is coming from TBH. Sendgrid won't honor what the End User wants from IPS is the End User has specified they don't want email from the sender at all. Jordan Miller and Linux-Is-Best 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Linux-Is-Best Posted March 28, 2021 Share Posted March 28, 2021 3 minutes ago, Morrigan said: No worries. I was just trying to make sure it was clear that is how it works and always how it worked so no one gets confused about it if they read the thread. IIRC @breatheheavy modified their email templates to use the sendgrid unsubscribe instead of the IPS unsubscribe which is where I believe the core of their issue is coming from TBH. Sendgrid won't honor what the End User wants from IPS is the End User has specified they don't want email from the sender at all. Thank you. I believe you do an excellent job of clarifying that. I have used e-mail provider services (Mandrill) for my own uses, but I presume the service providers I use do not filter the unsubscribed directly and still honor the software I am using. That is to say, if you had unsubscribed from newsletter-type e-mails (admin sent e-mails), you would still receive general site e-mails (password reset). I had no idea that SendGrid could be so intrusive. Again, thank you for your time, consideration, and assistance in helping me understand better. It is very appreciated. Jordan Miller 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morrigan Posted March 28, 2021 Share Posted March 28, 2021 2 minutes ago, Linux-Is-Best said: I have used e-mail provider services (Mandrill) for my own uses, but I presume the service providers I use do not filter the unsubscribed directly and still honor the software I am using. That is to say, if you had unsubscribed from newsletter-type e-mails (admin sent e-mails), you would still receive general site e-mails (password reset). I had no idea that SendGrid could be so intrusive. I think the only difference here is that you are allowing IPS to deal with the unsubscribe whereas I believe that @Jordan Invision is using Sendgrid's unsubscribe. So I think Mandrill COULD be just as intrusive but its a matter of how its setup. Jordan Miller and Linux-Is-Best 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joey_M Posted March 28, 2021 Share Posted March 28, 2021 @breatheheavy: I am trying to find a dev that will create a widget/plugin that works with SendGrid mailing lists, this would allow members to unsubscribe directly from e-mails. I have previously used a script called Sendy which is very good, but I have moved to use SendGrid since my emails started to bounce. Hopefully, other IPS community users that use SendGrid would find this plugin/widget to be useful. Jordan Miller 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoffeeCake Posted March 29, 2021 Share Posted March 29, 2021 @breatheheavy, You likely need to take a look at using unsubscribe groups with your implementation, so that if you're using sendgrid's unsubscribe feature, you're grouping those unsubscribes just for things like your newsletter and not for things like e-mails that are necessary for community operation. Documentation is here: https://sendgrid.com/docs/ui/sending-email/unsubscribe-groups/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 31, 2021 Share Posted March 31, 2021 On 3/28/2021 at 11:25 AM, Morrigan said: Q1) How are they unsubscribing? Normally when they unsubscribe from the newsletter this doesn't stop other things. Most likely you are using Sendgrid's unsubscribe and you would likely have to discuss this with them or get some sort of mod to undo this miess. Q2) If they aren't subscribed to your newsletter that block shows up (last I checked it doesn't show to guests at all). What it sounds like is that they are subscribed to your newsletter but they have unsubscribed from receiving your emails through sendgrid and so sendgrid isn't sending anything. You should be using the default IPS subscribe/unsubscribe stuff, not sendgrid's which is likely your downfall here. I'm going to check later today! Maybe I'm mistaken. I've just received a good amount of emails from people who claim they don't ever get the "forgot password" email. 🤦🏼♂️ "What it sounds like is that they are subscribed to your newsletter but they have unsubscribed from receiving your emails through sendgrid and so sendgrid isn't sending anything." Yea! I am under the impression it's this. Do you have any advice as to how to go about using IPS' default sub/unsub? I have had trouble implementing that with Sendgrid. Any help would be greatly appreciated! On 3/28/2021 at 11:28 AM, Nathan Explosion said: Wrong Because you are viewing the page as someone who has signed up for the newsletter. Ahhh gotcha. I'll play around with that later today so I can get a visual. Thanks for the insight @Nathan Explosion! On 3/28/2021 at 2:45 PM, Joey_M said: @breatheheavy: I am trying to find a dev that will create a widget/plugin that works with SendGrid mailing lists, this would allow members to unsubscribe directly from e-mails. I have previously used a script called Sendy which is very good, but I have moved to use SendGrid since my emails started to bounce. Hopefully, other IPS community users that use SendGrid would find this plugin/widget to be useful. Interesting!! On 3/29/2021 at 7:35 AM, CoffeeCake said: @breatheheavy, You likely need to take a look at using unsubscribe groups with your implementation, so that if you're using sendgrid's unsubscribe feature, you're grouping those unsubscribes just for things like your newsletter and not for things like e-mails that are necessary for community operation. Documentation is here: https://sendgrid.com/docs/ui/sending-email/unsubscribe-groups/ Going to take a look today. I believe in the past I tried to add a separate unsubscribe to my newsletter template, but Sendgrid could never recognize it, so I've been using the default unsubscribe. 😩 Linux-Is-Best 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoffeeCake Posted March 31, 2021 Share Posted March 31, 2021 54 minutes ago, breatheheavy said: Going to take a look today. I believe in the past I tried to add a separate unsubscribe to my newsletter template, but Sendgrid could never recognize it, so I've been using the default unsubscribe. 😩 That's precisely the issue you're facing. SendGrid's unsubscribe mechanism is designed to make sure you don't email people who tell you to stop e-mailing them, so it stops any e-mails being sent out to them for other purposes if you don't use unsubscribe groups. By using their default unsubscribe without groups, you effectively told SendGrid "block e-mails to the people that unsubscribed so they don't get spammed." SendGrid, without groups, has no idea what you're sending. It can't tell the difference between your newsletter and password reset e-mails. It just knows dualipavsbritney420@gmail.com said I don't want e-mails from this sender, and effectively stops those e-mails from being delivered wholesale. To fix this, you probably want to create a newsletter specific group and a group for "important site communication" that would be things that IPS sends out by default. Then, manually move your unsubscribes into the newsletter group (that's probably what they wanted when they did it). See here to set it all up:https://app.sendgrid.com/suppressions/advanced_suppression_manager Look here on how you should update your e-mails:https://sendgrid.com/docs/ui/sending-email/index-suppressions/ Ideally though, you'd want to remove these e-mails from your actual tool that sends out Newsletters instead of having SendGrid manage suppressions. Each e-mail that is suppressed consumes one of your e-mail credits, so it's probably better to go in and remove them from your mailing list. What do you use to send newsletters? IPS itself or some third party product/application? Linux-Is-Best 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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