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WebP is amazing for lossless image compression (or rather, maybe you could say PNG is just really bad), but for lossy compression it's a bit iffy. It can sometimes beat out jpeg while preserving the same quality level but it's a hit or miss in my experience.

Edited by Makoto
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On 10/3/2020 at 5:00 PM, Makoto said:

My stance is if you want WebP support, just use a good CDN service like CloudFlare.

It's a much more sensible solution. CloudFlare converts images to WebP, optionally performing only lossless or lossy compression, ensures WebP images are only served to clients that support it, and requires absolutely no additional processing power or storage on your end.

The same can be done with other reputable CDN services I believe.

If you are bare metal and absolutely don't want to use Cloudflare or so on, there is also mod_pagespeed as mentioned above.

It doesn't work flawlessly for all image types in every situation. There are lots of cases where it simply doesn't work.
Been actively using it since quite a while and it doesn't solve the main issue, which is that invision doesn't allow upload of specific image types as an actual image.

It also doesn't allow us to optimize the compression, not globaly nor per image.

First step should always be to fix the actual problem, and not look for the quickest workaround.
AV1 (AVIF) is just another great format that's not supported by invision, however it's a younger format.
Originaly a video coding format with its final image specifications just finalized back in february 2019 if i'm not mistaken.

Please note that webp is out there in the wild since >10 years by now.
And there are people out there who're itching for invision's implementation since several years.

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3 minutes ago, Everade said:

It doesn't work flawlessly for all image types in every situation. There are lots of cases where it simply doesn't work

Such as? Can you link me some examples?

CloudFlare won't convert images to WebP if the filesize would be larger or there would otherwise be no benefit gained. You can check the reason an image hasn't been "polished" or converted by reading the headers CloudFlare sends with the request.

I've never seen any issues using it myself. What do you mean by "optimize the compression" as well? You can configure the quality level for lossy compression, but otherwise there's nothing you can or need to really "optimize".

My stance remains that CDN's are still a significantly better solution. No increased storage or processing requirements on your end, you take advantage of faster CDN networks when serving images, and these services take care of ensuring users are always served the correct supported file format.

There's really not much of a good reason to not be using services like this in 2020.

Edited by Makoto
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Cloudflare isn't capable of xxx to webp conversion in a dynamic website environment.  For example javascript.
Accessing the image directly might work, but Cloudflare has lots of issues when it comes to dynamic content.
This has nothing to do with the fact that not all images are optimized, but because Cloudflare isn't capable of handling certain cases.

CDN is always a great addition to automation and optimizations.
But it doesn't allow for much flexibility.

And how exactly do you think i'm saving processing power or storage, when i'm uploading a 10mb png vs a 5mb webp?
What has any of this to do with processing power?
webp is widely supported so double uploads are not really required. I'm not wasting space, i'm saving space with webp support.


Is Cloudflare flexible enough to optimize the webp compression per image? No.
Does it allow us to upload webp to invision? No 😉

I'm pretty certain that i'm at the InvisionCommunity here, and not at Cloudflare.
So please let it rest so we finally get the much needed webp support.

Thank you.

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2 minutes ago, Everade said:

Cloudflare isn't capable of xxx to webp conversion in a dynamic website environment.  For example javascript.
Accessing the image directly might work, but Cloudflare has lots of issues when it comes to dynamic content.
This has nothing to do with the fact that not all images are optimized, but because Cloudflare isn't capable of handling certain cases.

No, but where in IPS exactly are you utilizing this? This is a very rare scenario, and there's nothing in IPS that produces dynamic images like this, so you must be using a third-party application for this, right? Which means it would be more the responsibility of the third-party application developer to implement WebP support anyways.

3 minutes ago, Everade said:

And how exactly do you think i'm saving processing power or storage, when i'm uploading a 10mb png vs a 5mb webp?

You would have to store both the 10mb PNG and the 5mb webp file, so you're increasing your image storage consumption by 50% or more in this case, give or take depending how well your images are optimized on average. WebP is not supported on most Safari versions still. It has only recently gotten support. Many iOS users and so on still lack proper WebP support. You can't just not store/serve original PNG's/JPEG's. It's also still required to store original images when using the gallery application and so on, as Windows and so on have no native support for displaying WebP images. Users need to be able to download the original files for offline storage.

6 minutes ago, Everade said:

Is Cloudflare flexible enough to optimize the webp compression per image? No.

Yes? That's exactly what Cloudflare does, it intelligently compresses images, better than IPS probably could. This is literally what they do. Optimization is their entire schtick.

I'm aware this is IPS and not CloudFlare, but I'm merely offering a pragmatic view here in that there's not really a benefit in integrating this into core applications when better solutions that most of the internet already take advantage of exist. The number of users that explicitly don't want to take advantage of these solutions is comparatively small, and thus implementing this is not going to be a high priority for IPS.

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Might be rare case for you. For me it isn't. It really isn't.
Just because cloudflare is the perfect solution for your personal project doesn't mean that it fits everyone.
Is it great overall? Absolutely. But it's not perfect.

Cloudflare might be great at optimization, but it doesn't KNOW nor SEE how the image looks like.
As such i prefer personal compression for optimal results. A machine doesn't understand images nor art. At least not for now.
In my case, Cloudflare only catches those pieces i haven't optimized myself.
I can save more space with personal optimizations where i want, and i can have the best qualitiy where i want.
Cloudflare is an image optimization fallback for me, not a solution.
 

Safari isn't an up to date browser, it's heavily outdated just like IE. I don't support that.
You do, others do, great, why not. I don't.
For me: double upload is at no point ever required. I save lots of space with webp.


And i repeat:
Cloudflare has nothing to do with the fact that we cannot upload webp as images to invision, anywhere at all.
-> Cloudflare doesn't fix the problem discussed in this topic.

Yes Cloudflare is glorious, i love it and use it too.
But it does not fix the very core of this topic and as such, shouldn't be discussed here.
It's a great hint for people who don't know about it.

But again:
It doesn't fix the problem discussed in this topic.

I understand that you don't need webp image upload support.
But others might. At least i do.

me: Alright?
you: Alright

k, thx, bye.

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13 hours ago, Everade said:

Safari isn't an up to date browser, it's heavily outdated just like IE. I don't support that.
You do, others do, great, why not. I don't.
For me: double upload is at no point ever required. I save lots of space with webp.

That's great for you, but to quote your own words, what works for you doesn't necessarily work for others. It doesn't matter what works for you. If this ever got an official implementation, this is the way it would work without any debate. Period.

13 hours ago, Everade said:

Cloudflare might be great at optimization, but it doesn't KNOW nor SEE how the image looks like.
As such i prefer personal compression for optimal results. A machine doesn't understand images nor art. At least not for now.
In my case, Cloudflare only catches those pieces i haven't optimized myself.
I can save more space with personal optimizations where i want, and i can have the best qualitiy where i want.
Cloudflare is an image optimization fallback for me, not a solution.

Sure, in that case just adding webp as a supported image format for manual upload would be all you need/want? Then you can manually compress and upload images however you want. That's fine. I support that.

13 hours ago, Everade said:

k, thx, bye.

You're welcome.

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You never bothered to read the main thread, obviously.

I've never asked for png to webp conversion with double savings for backwards compatibility, but for webp upload possibility and being actualy recognized as an image.
What you're talking about is an entirely different story.

This was never supposed to be nor become a debate, you're just offtopic.
Learn to read, accept the future.

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