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7 hours ago, Matt said:

We've tried to keep everyone informed as much as possible with blogs like this.

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"The lack of a consistent spacing scale has led to some arbitrary values being used in any given situation, which again has had a negative impact on the visual harmony of our design. We've therefore implemented a 4px spacing scale (using CSS variables rather than theme settings this time) and applied across almost all padding/margin values. In time, we anticipate fully switching all measurement values to the scale."

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This is really excessive. It looks even worse if your forum background is set to white.

In 4.5 we've tried to keep headers consistent, so that buttons are where you expect them to be, there's space for additional buttons as each page/app might require, and so that each page/app can exten

Yes, it’s my assessment that this layout is well-thought-out. (The one I commented, which was from Pages) I work as professional web designer for more than 20 years and I customize these Pages templ

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Come on guys, Invision is never going to please us all. And even if they adopted granular ACP theme adjustment tools same as Xenforo has, we'd still need to sit back and adjust dozens and dozens of margin, padding, line height and similar parameters to suit all of our individual tastes. And then you have the menu, which in my view should be docked in an object that can be bound to the DOM either on the server or in a CSOM. But, even if Invision did that, we'd still need to position it ourselves, and move it around depending on the app currently in use. So I say, be careful what you wish for as even though I'd like to see pages that are rendered a little more tightly and menus that break from the current paradigm, you can bet if Invision did that, we'd still be back with another set of demands next month.

So how about we get together, put our hands in our pockets and see if we can find a designer come dev to create a configurable theme for us - and I mean a theme, not a (wanit in green, blue, red?) skinning exercise. It could include all sorts of presets including spacing, fonts, menu positions and so on, including specifics for desktop and mobile. Won't be cheap, but at least at the end of it we will have something we can use to give us what we want, rather than assuming Invision can pull a theme styling rabbit out of the hat which is going to miraculously please us all. I just don't see it.

Of course, Invision are more than capable of doing this themselves. But a bit a string only goes so far, and if they do this, then all the other stuff we need like video transcoding (ok I need that 🙂 ) will get pushed to the back of the queue.

So how how about it? Put our energies into something creative?

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17 hours ago, Matt said:

I appreciate the feedback here. We're listening as always.

My only request is that we keep it polite. We don't need to scream in each other's faces to be heard. If we don't reply or action the feedback immediately, it isn't because we disagree, or are ignoring what you're saying; it's more likely that we need to consider every change as a team and this takes time.

Thanks Matt.  Fair point and the same way many of us run our sites.

I'm personally hoping we can tighten up the layout a bit. I insert ads manually in the layout / skins and want to minimize extra white space (and any custom edits needed to get it back).

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9 hours ago, christopher-w said:

Come on guys, Invision is never going to please us all. And even if they adopted granular ACP theme adjustment tools same as Xenforo has, we'd still need to sit back and adjust dozens and dozens of margin, padding, line height and similar parameters to suit all of our individual tastes. And then you have the menu, which in my view should be docked in an object that can be bound to the DOM either on the server or in a CSOM. But, even if Invision did that, we'd still need to position it ourselves, and move it around depending on the app currently in use. So I say, be careful what you wish for as even though I'd like to see pages that are rendered a little more tightly and menus that break from the current paradigm, you can bet if Invision did that, we'd still be back with another set of demands next month.

So how about we get together, put our hands in our pockets and see if we can find a designer come dev to create a configurable theme for us - and I mean a theme, not a (wanit in green, blue, red?) skinning exercise. It could include all sorts of presets including spacing, fonts, menu positions and so on, including specifics for desktop and mobile. Won't be cheap, but at least at the end of it we will have something we can use to give us what we want, rather than assuming Invision can pull a theme styling rabbit out of the hat which is going to miraculously please us all. I just don't see it.

Of course, Invision are more than capable of doing this themselves. But a bit a string only goes so far, and if they do this, then all the other stuff we need like video transcoding (ok I need that 🙂 ) will get pushed to the back of the queue.

So how how about it? Put our energies into something creative?

I think dialogue is good.  And do nothing is an "Apple" approach ("it's a feature").  There are many well thought out replies on this thread where people took the time to suggest css and layout changes that would help improve things. Many are excellent suggestions. I'm hopeful many get included -- but understand if not all.

Fwiw this is why I typically wait 6-12 months to upgrade my website to the latest .X version.  Rev .x.0-5 are typically loaded with minor issues that iron themselves out over time. The traffic impact (what we should all care about more than a new version of IPB) is the ultimate measure and waiting longer rarely does anything but help. 

 

 

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10 minutes ago, Fast Lane! said:

I think dialogue is good.  And do nothing is an "Apple" approach ("it's a feature").  There are many well thought out replies on this thread where people took the time to suggest css and layout changes that would help improve things. Many are excellent suggestions. I'm hopeful many get included

+1

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23 hours ago, christopher-w said:

So how about we get together, put our hands in our pockets and see if we can find a designer come dev to create a configurable theme for us - and I mean a theme, not a (wanit in green, blue, red?) skinning exercise. It could include all sorts of presets including spacing, fonts, menu positions and so on, including specifics for desktop and mobile. Won't be cheap, but at least at the end of it we will have something we can use to give us what we want, rather than assuming Invision can pull a theme styling rabbit out of the hat which is going to miraculously please us all. I just don't see it.

Could open source this with a git repository that anyone inclined to assist could contribute to. I have none of the skills required to do anything technical and all I can do is cheerlead. Frankly I also like the default skin save for some decisions about how big text and other elements are on mobile/tablet which is why I run at 75% zoom on mobile, so not a huge vested interest either. But clearly there are a lot of people who want a default skin that is far more flexible for their needs, and there is absolutely the talent here to help. Doesn’t seem like a candidate for a paid exercise, but something the community will need to figure out on its own. Ultimately, maybe providing a working framework that can be compared to what Invision provides and makes the case for certain changes. Would love to see that sort of collaboration. Can also happily assist with any grunt work lower skilled tasks if they are needed. 

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On 9/29/2020 at 7:16 PM, Morgin said:

Could open source this with a git repository that anyone inclined to assist could contribute to. I have none of the skills required to do anything technical and all I can do is cheerlead. Frankly I also like the default skin save for some decisions about how big text and other elements are on mobile/tablet which is why I run at 75% zoom on mobile, so not a huge vested interest either. But clearly there are a lot of people who want a default skin that is far more flexible for their needs, and there is absolutely the talent here to help. Doesn’t seem like a candidate for a paid exercise, but something the community will need to figure out on its own. Ultimately, maybe providing a working framework that can be compared to what Invision provides and makes the case for certain changes. Would love to see that sort of collaboration. Can also happily assist with any grunt work lower skilled tasks if they are needed. 

TBH I don't think there is a strong enough community here (ironically) to work together on a labour of mutual love. That's why I suggested a paid project, which in itself hasn't attracted much interest.

It seems to me that most folks just want to solve 'their' problem and off they go. Which is a shame because I see mutual client cooperation as the only way some of these projects will get completed. Otherwise we are left with the Hobson's choice of wait for somebody else to solve our problems for us.

On a more positive note, based on my belief that there is a lot of reinventing the UX 'wheel' here, some of it buckled, we've been looking at developments on Apple News, Twitter and FB. Apple News in particular has really nice UX patterns on both its desktop and mobile apps. At first it looks very simple, but benefits from a light and open design, whilst keeping information itself tightly packed. This follows Google's material design pattern mentioned by me earlier, and sort of has us thinking, these guys have put $billions of user clinic tested UX into common usage - so why not learn from them and follow suit. So that's the direction we are headed for now.

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