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Has the Coronavirus effected your life?

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Posted (edited)

At this point even I hope the topic is locked because all it's turned into is one-sided personal attacks on anyone who doesn't say "I agree the sky is falling and this is the end of the world and we should cancel the world". My posts were opinions directed at nobody in here, but the other side can't handle others having different opinions so they just can't resist responding to make personal insults. And you/they are also totally mischaracterizing what we're even saying about the virus.

56 minutes ago, Makoto said:

I have a friend in the UK who works as a nurse and is dealing with this first hand and is almost dying from the stress alone, so go and shove your nonsense. Just because this hasn't spread to the point of overwhelming smaller cities/towns yet doesn't mean it's not going to happen if we're not careful. They're going to be even less prepared than major metropolitan areas are.

I'm done talking with you now. Feel free to live in your own ignorant bubble, as I've stated before your opinions don't really matter anyways. The rest of the world will continue to take this seriously, whether you want to or not is your own perogative.

yeah let's just tell people their cases aren't yet severe enough and let them go home and become too severe to save because a hospital "may" get overwhelmed in the future. This after people (including ones in here) said EVERYONE should get tested. That sure won't overwhelm anyone, having billions of tests across the world. Just another post where yo posted generalized statements with no numbers to back it up, then throw in insults of someone disagreeing. 🙂

As much as several of you wish you could, you can't force people to share your opinions and Insulting people over it doesn't help matters, nor does twisting what people said, such as the many people claiming I said it won't be bad on x date when what I said was nobody knows if it will be and "it could be" is not good enough because there's a lot of things that "could be".

edit: as for the "not taking seriously" claim there... I already said I am taking it reasonably seriously in having a lot of food and not going places as much starting a couple days ago. Thinking some things were canceled or postponed prematurely does not mean they arent taking something seriously. The majority may agree with current quarantining, but you will find almost everyone disagreeing on how far out things should be upended over this. Even Lindy said people won't handle it forever.

Edited by Midnight Modding

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14 minutes ago, Makoto said:

It's called cherry picking to make isolated cases seem more common than they actually are. The media does it all the time.

oh you mean like they are doing by showing people who died from this virus and showing zero stories about the flu victims, but supposedly that proved the sky is falling?

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Posted (edited)

Notice Tony, designz, and I aren't demanding anyone in here agree with our opinions. We simply stated general opinions and left it at that. And no matter how anyone slices it, the fact is that how bad the virus will get, how long it will last, and how to best treat it are opinions, due to there needing to be balance between health and living lives (ie the experts saying how to best get rid of it are ONLY taking into consideration health, not the other things that must be balanced in a society). And my opinions on things months out are unrelated to what is best right now. I have about the most balanced opinion in here. I said it's serious, but some things are overboard.

Anyway there's not much point even posting in here, because it's basically being treated as there is only one right opinion and it's ok to mock anyone believing otherwise.

Edited by Midnight Modding

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This from a leading infectious disease expert from UCLA:

Quote

Humanity has been contending with seasonal flu for centuries, so scientists have had a long time to study the influenza strains that circulate in the winter months.

This research has led to the development of annual vaccines that protect large swaths of the population from getting the flu and reduce its severity in those who do become infected. In addition, there are medications available that can treat influenza symptoms and sometimes shorten the duration of the illness.

Also, when individuals come down with the flu, their bodies build up immunity. That means not everyone who is exposed to the flu virus gets sick.

But the coronavirus responsible for COVID-19 has been in existence for only about three months, so there is no natural immunity in the population.

And this from a policy adviser at the National Institutes of Health:

Quote

And unfortunately, there isn’t a vaccine that can pick up the slack. Although several experimental vaccines are in the works, none will be ready to roll out for at least 18 months, said Dr. Hilary Marston, a policy advisor at the National Institutes of Health.

Nor are there any medications specifically designed to target this coronavirus, though researchers are testing existing antiviral medications to see if they can help patients with COVID-19.

“Public health measures are what we are going to need to focus on for the foreseeable future,” Marston said. That includes basics like washing your hands and covering your cough, as well as more disruptive things like closing schools, canceling public gatherings and implementing quarantines for those who may have been exposed.

And this:

Quote

The coronavirus spreads through droplets as well, researchers say, and it may be capable of airborne transmission too. Airborne viruses, like measles and chickenpox, can drift from person to person in even smaller droplets that can travel on air currents.

“That’s a very different thing,” said Abigail Carlson, an epidemiologist at Washington University School of Medicine in St. Louis. Among other things, it implies that an infected person can spread the virus to someone who is more than six feet away, “so that is also part of the rationale for keeping people at a distance from one another.”

If this doesn't explain the rationale of what is being implemented on a global scale, then I have no idea what it will take to penetrate the skulls of those that fail to understand the seriousness of this outbreak. I'm more concerned about what the experts are saying than in the opinions of others who have no medical background or expertise in this field.  

This will be my last post in this thread because some of what is being said is just beyond belief.

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1. they admit they still don't know a lot about it. 2. the vaccine isn't close (which doesn't mean cases will keep growing exponentially until there is one...) 3. none of that says people should cancel society for a year. 4. nobody here said it's "not serious".

let's just see if the quarantining keeps taking place for months and months. That is one thing I will definitely predict is nope it won't. Like I said, even Lindy said people won't stand for it long term. Only way would be if it were something with a high death rate.

Also experts can be found that say opposite opinions on about anything and experts are wrong pretty constantly. Remember when they claimed various islands would be under water by a certain year because of global warming and then here we are decades later with it still not having happened?

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23 minutes ago, Davyc said:

This will be my last post in this thread because some of what is being said is just beyond belief.

I've often thought a nice feature would be to allow, in some forums, topic starters to be able to moderate their own thread.

Or, and I've discussed this with a couple of devs here, having each post scored by a sentiment analysis algorithm, with threshold put on acceptable input, at least in terms of overall sentiment.

There's a demo here for those that wish to try it out. Out of reach $$$$ for the bigger forum owners amongst you I am assuming, but might work for some.

https://cloud.google.com/natural-language

 

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5 minutes ago, Midnight Modding said:

because all it's turned into is one-sided personal attacks …

Yeah, yeah. You favorite trick/excuse for years, isn’t it? 

  1. You make questionable claims.
  2. People correct your questionable claims or provide counter-arguments.
  3. You claim “I’m being attacked and the victim here”.

You have done this in so many discussions I’ve seen you taken part in—even many of the coding discussions which aren’t even connected to political views or anything subjective. Either you are right and people agree or you are the victim. It’s the definition of ignorance since it excludes the possibility of you ever being wrong.

 

30 minutes ago, Midnight Modding said:

At this point even I hope the topic is locked because all it's turned into is one-sided personal attacks on anyone who doesn't say "I agree the sky is falling and this is the end of the world and we should cancel the world". My posts were opinions directed at nobody in here, but the other side can't handle others having different opinions so they just can't resist responding to make personal insults. And you/they are also totally mischaracterizing what we're even saying about the virus.

Oh, the irony. He complains about “mischaracterization” of his own words in the last sentence, while in multiple posts and even the very SAME paragraph (first sentence) he characterizes all opposing posts repeatedly as a “the sky is falling” or “end of the world” point of view, which of course is completely wrong and as such absolutely dishonest—no one has gotten even close to make such claims. The extremeness of this exaggeration and mischaracterization is either deliberate and designed to provoke (just like it provokes me to point it out right here) or alternatively, it demonstrates that someone A) isn’t able to have a reasonable discussion and needs this kind of simplification and mischaracterization of opposing view to protect his own believes and B) doesn’t even see the blatantly obvious irony and logical fallacy in his own words—even if he does the very own thing he criticises in the very same paragraph! I’m not absolutely sure which option it is, but both pretty much disqualify from any good, fruitful and reasonable discussions and instead put at least the result of such comments (intended or not) in the same category as plain-old trolling. 

I still vote for closing this topic since it contains potentially harmful opinions which outweigh the benefits of having a discussion, but alternatively, Aiwa’s solution is the second-best thing … 😉

https://invisioncommunity.com/forums/topic/456033-has-the-coronavirus-effected-your-life/page/10/?tab=comments#comment-2813933

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1 hour ago, Midnight Modding said:

oh you mean like they are doing by showing people who died from this virus and showing zero stories about the flu victims, but supposedly that proved the sky is falling?

Don't you love it how it goes from "The hospitals are full of the infected, and they're all on ventilators!" to "Well, whether you choose to believe it or not, it could happen!" And then, as evidence, there's, "My friend works in a hospital and she's stressed out!" Well, she may be stressed, and so is everyone else, but I would venture to guess her stress comes from all the morons showing up demanding tests and all the doctors who might not have masks because of the clowns who bought them all up and are wearing them whenever they go anywhere. 

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2 hours ago, Midnight Modding said:

Riiiight. You have seen the numbers of how many have it, right? Most entire cities have like 10 cases

NYC is doubling every 3 days. It’s a problem, I would not minimize it nor compare it with the flu at this point. Maybe after it’s done and there’s an “official” treatment. They still don’t know if the same will happen in other cities, hence the shutdowns. Everyone currently in the hospital or needing medical services would disagree with you. 

Now, I am for opening things up with a well thought out plan and not keeping the entire US shut down for a prolonged period of time. Take a pause and see what happens over the next 2 weeks, if numbers continue to rise, there is a good argument to keep things shut down, but if not...we’ll just have to wait and see. 

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You guys all see that newsflash recently? Even that emotionally damaged child they've been parading around the world like a sideshow freak, the one who's been telling us we're all gonna die because of "climate change," thinks she had it or "might have had it.". Too much!

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20 minutes ago, tonyv said:

You guys all see that newsflash recently? Even that emotionally damaged child they've been parading around the world like a sideshow freak, the one who's been telling us we're all gonna die because of "climate change," thinks she had it or "might have had it.". Too much!

You plumb new depths with that one

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, tonyv said:

Don't you love it how it goes from "The hospitals are full of the infected, and they're all on ventilators!" to "Well, whether you choose to believe it or not, it could happen!"

It IS happening in major cities like New York and in places like the U.K., I said it just might not be happening in more RURAL areas yet.

Maybe learn to read through things a bit better before you comment.

Also for your information, she is actually one of the people seeing a drastic influx in covid-19 patients and may end up being on the front-lines putting her health at risk treating these people soon. Equipment and indeed PPE shortage is becoming a serious concern there. So, to you as well, I will politely say go shove your misinformed presumptions.

Edited by Makoto

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We are choosing to keep this topic open just so we don't run the risk of infecting the rest of our community with this discussion, so we'd prefer to isolate it to the one area.

Those who still maintain it's media hype, go and volunteer and see what you find out for yourselves.

For those who say it's just the same as flu, then lets look at basic mathematics:

Let's say in Country A, every year there are 250,000 cases of flu, and 100,000 need some kind of medical intervention.

Let's ignore all the science and go with what some random YoutTuber says and that COVID is just like flu in that there will be 250,000 cases of it and 100,000 need hospital.

So, we now have 500,000 sick people, of which 200,000 need the hospital which doubles the need thus causing hospitals to become overrun.

If it is like the flu, then it doesn't mean that seasonal flu goes away for a year.
 

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18 hours ago, Davyc said:

This is the scenario that I have been fearing:

As the death toll continues to rise in the UK the idiots are running wild:

People still grouping together - many of them stating "I'm not sick, why should I stay at home"

Pubs, which had to close last Friday evening until further notice find that Landlords have been holding prohibition-style lock-ins despite the ban

Hospitals overrun and reaching critical mass and some staff even refusing to work with Covid-19 verified patients

Some businesses refusing to close and even ramping up prices by ridiculous amounts - people will remember once this is over (whenever that may be)

In the UK the death toll hit 422 today, with 8,077 people infected. The youngest victim being just 18 years old.

It's time people were 'made' to behave responsibly and show some consideration for others.

That "40 mutations" article is a little misleading. Scientists are starting to track the DNA from the virus to try and work out how it spread, to learn how to stop it in the future. All viruses mutate slightly from person to person. The hope is that it doesn't mutate into something more deadly.

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Honestly, I ignore the news, I ignore social media, I ignore any topics that are negative. I do this primarily because of a medical condition and the impact of its treatment. Unfortunately, I can’t go see my specialist Dr due to this. Which means my treatment is basically on hold. I can’t get my implant or medications adjusted to advance my treatment.

The impact on the overall health system is greater than COVID. I thank the stars that my condition isn’t life threatening, but many people’s are. Heart disease, cancer treatments, etc.

I’m not a herd follower, but when you see governments ALL around the world shutting things down, that’s a telltale sign that the expert advisors to all of those governments are coming to a similar conclusion. Right or wrong, only time can truly tell. 

That’s said, I support the measures being taken by each government in their efforts to protect their citizens. Economic impact is/will be severe and those governments will do what they can to continue to support their citizens. 

To specifically target events being cancelled... Let’s break it down to one simple fact that is indisputable. These events are about brining in revenue, you have to pay the bills, right? If they can’t get enough fans in the stands, who pays the bill? 

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1 hour ago, Aiwa said:

I’m not a herd follower, but when you see governments ALL around the world shutting things down, that’s a telltale sign that the expert advisors to all of those governments are coming to a similar conclusion. Right or wrong, only time can truly tell. 

Or the global financial system meltdown is here. 

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6 hours ago, Midnight Modding said:

Also experts can be found that say opposite opinions on about anything and experts are wrong pretty constantly. Remember when they claimed various islands would be under water by a certain year because of global warming and then here we are decades later with it still not having happened?

I think this sums up everything people need to know about your critical thinking skills and general understanding of information filtering. 

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7 hours ago, tonyv said:

Don't you love it how it goes from "The hospitals are full of the infected, and they're all on ventilators!" to "Well, whether you choose to believe it or not, it could happen!" And then, as evidence, there's, "My friend works in a hospital and she's stressed out!" Well, she may be stressed, and so is everyone else, but I would venture to guess her stress comes from all the morons showing up demanding tests and all the doctors who might not have masks because of the clowns who bought them all up and are wearing them whenever they go anywhere. 

yeah most of these people don't deserve more responses from me because I am too logical. if they were really confident in their beliefs they wouldn't be needing to really reach for excuses and attack me personally. Not responding anymore to anyone who starts out posts with condescending or antagonistic wording.

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6 hours ago, Matt said:

We are choosing to keep this topic open just so we don't run the risk of infecting the rest of our community with this discussion, so we'd prefer to isolate it to the one area.

Those who still maintain it's media hype, go and volunteer and see what you find out for yourselves.

For those who say it's just the same as flu, then lets look at basic mathematics:

Let's say in Country A, every year there are 250,000 cases of flu, and 100,000 need some kind of medical intervention.

Let's ignore all the science and go with what some random YoutTuber says and that COVID is just like flu in that there will be 250,000 cases of it and 100,000 need hospital.

So, we now have 500,000 sick people, of which 200,000 need the hospital which doubles the need thus causing hospitals to become overrun.

If it is like the flu, then it doesn't mean that seasonal flu goes away for a year.
 

I don't know about others, but I didn't personally say it's all media hype. I said many times it's serious, but that they are overreacting about it. It's also a matter of opinion whether it's worse than the flu because it all depends which numbers you choose to consider most important. I think someone would be dumb to choose having coronavirus over having the flu if for some reason they had to choose. But as far as final impact we don';t know at all that the death toll will be even close t that of a flu because we don't know if it will last into summer months.

I see Universal Studios agrees with my opinions. They extended their closures only through mid-April. That's all I really said is reactions should be handled slowly, not rushing to assume the future. Then people started having meltdowns like if I care about society functioning, I must not care about people. lol. When I thought about it, the Olympics is a special case, though, because I forgot all of the Olympic trials and preparations that take place before they have it. I still think they could have waited, though, but just not much longer.

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Now they say that this virus will be around until we have a vaccine - at least 12 months, and maybe 18 months or more. They are planning an excessive testing. Every citizen will be tested several times, and if one person has the virus they will use mobile tracking backwards in time so they automatically inform every person that have been in contact with the one with virus in the days before.

Their working hard with laws and stuff, so they can achieve this.

This is kind of Big Brothers Orwells 1984 stuff, but they say that they must be certain that they pick only person that has been closer to 1 meter to another. This sure must be big data! I think South Korea have done something similar.

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Posted (edited)

I wonder how long until businesses get shamed for having sales. I was going to stay home today, but redbox sent me a free rental code... Just like a few days ago, pizza hut emailing me made me get a pizza. Hopefully the store has bread so I can extend the time I won't need to go back after returning the movie.

Edited by Midnight Modding

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Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, Midnight Modding said:

Notice Tony, designz, and I aren't demanding anyone in here agree with our opinions.

All my posts have not been of or on opinion but facts from the CDC and WHO. What I've noticed is a lot of people want to ignore these facts and perpetuate dis-information that actually scares the public and places undue fear into peoples lives and it's created mayhem that's effecting people like the elderly. I'm actually the only one leaving facts from the CDC and WHO. I've left link after link after link in all my posts. I also haven't cherry picked information, my links are to the entire enchilada. Without responsibly using the CDC and WHO information we can't gather a proper analysis of what's going on. I take a stand on the facts by the highest authorities on the matter at hand. How some interpret those facts vary greatly in society.

I've heard people on here say it's going to wipe humans off the face of the earth, this is a crazy mans statement, it hasn't even come close and these people like davyc should be held accountable for fear mongering.

People say it's only a minority taking this seriously, again, dis-information being spread. From the beaches on US soil to horse racing crowds and pubs in the UK etc... etc... we see it's many people making the choice to be out there. It's not like a 1 or 2 percent number not sheltering in place but a much much bigger percentage of people. Ignoring the facts is dangerous! Is that a smart move on these peoples parts? More than likely not but the fact of the matter is, is not just a small percentage of people. When people say this they are ill informed and are dismissing others due to their own personal fear. The reason I said previously, turn off the TV and get your facts straight from the source. CDC and WHO!

To take this step further to show the hypocrisy that exists not only here but everywhere let's look at something as simple like the need to eat to live and I'll use Walmart as an example here, a major US grocer chain. People are told to stay away from groups of 10 or larger, as a matter of fact, in some places it's forced, however, if these same people that are so hell bent on following the rules, why would they go into a Walmart or grocer where there may be several hundred people at a time shopping for food? I was in one yesterday, what I seen was amazing... almost everyone I seen didn't have gloves or masks on, I seen people close to each other isle after isle, people using self checkouts standing right next to each other. As I left the store I noticed people were not using sanitary wipes to wipe the handles of the carts they use to shop with when entering the store. The sheer numbers of people doing this was not in the minority, they were clearly the majority.

Each and everyone of you need to eat, are you willing to sacrifice not going into a public gathering like Walmart or a grocer to risk getting covid-19 and not eat for the better of human kind? I doubt it. In these terms I say there's a lot of hypocrites right here on this forum. If you were really that worried you'd sacrifice yourself and starve, but guess what, we know that's not going to happen. People got to eat to stay alive! Here's the issue, when people don't shelter in place they see examples of what I'm saying above and think to themselves, if it's ok and Gov't says it's ok for these places to accept people in mass droves and everyone's going into to congregate and get food it must not be as bad as thought. There's no 10 person limit into a grocer.. They figure if it was really that bad, they should be able to order their groceries online and get them home delivered. The mixed signaling is incredible and leaves open a lot of space for doubt.

So some say, well the grocers can limit the number of people who are in the store... Then guess what happens, you have hundreds of people standing in a line in very close proximity of each other, crunching each other to get a chance to get something before they run out. People start fighting, police, medics then have to risk themselves possibly and so on and so on.

It's also more than grocers that people are going to in droves, it's the corner convenient stores that sell gas, cigarettes and more. I have yet to see one person since this started wipe a gas handle or wear gloves to touch one, what about you? 

Another thing people here don't know about me, I am a independent reporter/videographer for several news stations where I live. I went on a call yesterday to a Walmart where 3 people were shoplifting cold and flu medicine. It just so happened one of the shoplifters was a previous shoplifter at the same store so they knew his name, when I overheard dispatch what they said across the radio was this person was a confirmed covid-19 case in the state I live in.  here we have a positive case and someone is willing to put all of society at risk over their actions. When I walked around the pharmacy where they were, I just caught notice no one from the store was shutting down that area or cleaning it. They just went on like it was normal. imo that person caught shoplifting should of had extra charges brought forth, but it appears that didn't happen. How may of you grab something that a covid positive person has handled? My point being, how many of you go to the store and have a clue crap like this happens but you still go?

You see now, see the where the issue is? People may say here we're so perfect and will come down hard on people who don't believe in what others believe or perceive but look at the examples society itself has set forth. C'mon, who here will admit they still go to the grocery store with more than 10 people in it? Be honest.. Anyone condemning others here will you have the guts to step forth and admit that? If you're so scared of covid-19 why would you go or send others from your household to go?

Some here will again attempt to construe what I've said as being one sided, but the fact of the matter is, people will be people and learn by having examples set forth. We as a society are products of our own making, like it or not. Like it or not, this will continue and the virus will spread just as the flu. Humanity will go on and not self instinct. 

Not listening to other viewpoints could actually hamper the situation because you are not learning or listening. Patience, read and produce facts from the proper authorities, not fear mongering which has run rampant in this topic.

And again for the record, I believe this is serious and people should follow the guidelines of their countries suggestions as much as possible to lesson the chance of infection, I'm again just stating, the fear mongering, over reaching and hypocrisy has to stop!

 

Edited by DesignzShop

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1 minute ago, DesignzShop said:

All my posts have not been of or on opinion but facts from the CDC and WHO. What I've noticed is a lot of people want to ignore these facts and perpetuate dis-information that actually scares the public and places undue fear into peoples lives and it's created mayhem that's effecting people like the elderly. I'm actually the only one leaving facts from the CDC and WHO. I've left link after link after link in all my posts. I also haven't cherry picked information, my links are to the entire enchilada. Without responsibly using the CDC and WHO information we can't gather a proper analysis of what's going on. I take a stand on the facts by the highest authorities on the matter at hand. How some interpret those facts vary greatly in society.

tl;dr "I'm taking valid statistics and misconstruing them to suit my narrative" and "I don't understand what flattening the curve means"

3 minutes ago, DesignzShop said:

I've heard people on here say it's going to wipe humans off the face of the earth,

No one here has said that.

3 minutes ago, DesignzShop said:

these people like davyc should be held accountable for fear mongering.

lol

4 minutes ago, DesignzShop said:

turn off the TV and get your facts straight from the source. CDC and WHO!

Good idea. They say the same things we have been saying.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/cases-updates/summary.html#cdc-response

7 minutes ago, DesignzShop said:

To take this step further to show the hypocrisy that exists not only here but everywhere let's look at something as simple like the need to eat to live and I'll use Walmart as an example here, a major US grocer chain. People are told to stay away from groups of 10 or larger, as a matter of fact, in some places it's forced, however, if these same people that are so hell bent on following the rules, why would they go into a Walmart or grocer where there may be several hundred people at a time shopping for food? I was in one yesterday, what I seen was amazing... almost everyone I seen didn't have gloves or masks on, I seen people close to each other isle after isle, people using self checkouts standing right next to each other. As I left the store I noticed people were not using sanitary wipes to wipe the handles of the carts they use to shop with when entering the store. The sheer numbers of people doing this was not in the minority, they were clearly the majority.

There's a difference between essential and non-essential travel.

Buying food and things you need to survive is called essential. Do I need to explain why to you? I hope not.

Yes, those people should be using sanitation wipes. Yes, they could be doing various things better. No, that's not.. hypocrisy, as you put it?

We could collectively be doing better, sure. Some people are also outright intentionally ignoring recommendations. These people are what we like to call, morons.

No, you do not need to be doing outside with masks on, because the people mass buying PPE's are causing shortages for the people who really need them like actual hospitals. You should do everything you can within reason to minimize your risks, but you don't need PPE's.

Unfortunately, there's no way to eliminate all risk. That's just a fact of life. But you can take preventative measures and only travel when you really need to.

11 minutes ago, DesignzShop said:

If you were really that worried you'd sacrifice yourself and starve, but guess what, we know that's not going to happen.

Congratulations on making what is probably the most foolish statement in this entire 16-page thread. Well done.

12 minutes ago, DesignzShop said:

You see now, see the where the issue is? People may say here we're so perfect

Literally no one has said this. Literally no one.

Not a single soul.

13 minutes ago, DesignzShop said:

Not listening to other viewpoints could actually hamper the situation because you are not learning or listening. Patience, read and produce facts from the proper authorities, not fear mongering which has run rampant in this topic.

From the proper authorities.. you mean like.. every major government combined? You mean like all the worlds major health organizations? Or do you mean we should just listen to you and the few other dissidents on this forum instead?

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Posted (edited)

I love how he says the cdc said exactly what they did, but in reality there is a ton people have said in here that was not said there, such as that events should be canceled many months out. last time they said anything, it was only said that things should be postponed for 6 or 8 weeks (I forget which). Also, people in here saying this will end up worse than the flu, anyone's crazy to think it won't, and cherrypicked expert recommendations as if there aren't other experts disagreeing with how long things should be upended.

Edited by Midnight Modding

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