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PaulKet

Has the Coronavirus effected your life?

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Posted (edited)

With all due respect Rhett! This IS the factual effect it's having on Americans!!!
For goodness sakes people read! This IS the information people need to follow if you are in the US! Ignoring this is being willfully ignorant! This is the authority in the US.. Period! NO ONE HERE is more of an authority than the CDC! No one!
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/cases-updates/summary.html

For anyone that can do the math!
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/cases-updates/cases-in-us.html

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6912e2.htm?s_cid=mm6912e2_w

I suggest everyone in the US turn off the TV, we have some seriously mis-informed people from the US in this forum topic!

 

Edited by DesignzShop

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40 minutes ago, DesignzShop said:

For anyone that can do the math!
 

Well, therein lies the problem with your posts. You are referring to the CDC, which is an accurate US source. You are then cherry picking and distorting the data and misrepresenting what it means, contradicting every major health authority and alluding to conspiracies and fake news and people being mis-informed for expressing concern over the exponential growth curves being seen internationally. There are three people in this thread from what I can tell who are doing their best to make this seem like it's not a big deal and placing the blame on media hysteria and some nebulous conspiracy. You are one of them. This is dangerous behavior, because it encourages people to not take this seriously. Doing so will result in more deaths. It's possible to flatten the curve and save lives. Doing so is imperative.  

As Rhett said, if you can honestly and in good faith observe what is going on globally and look to the CDC stats as evidence that this is overblown and media hysteria, you simply do not understand what the numbers mean or how to interpret them. Full stop. 

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Posted (edited)
7 minutes ago, Morgin said:

Well, therein lies the problem with your posts. You are referring to the CDC, which is an accurate US source. You are then cherry picking and distorting the data and misrepresenting what it means, contradicting every major health authority and alluding to conspiracies and fake news and people being mis-informed for expressing concern over the exponential growth curves being seen internationally. There are three people in this thread from what I can tell who are doing their best to make this seem like it's not a big deal and placing the blame on media hysteria and some nebulous conspiracy. You are one of them. This is dangerous behavior, because it encourages people to not take this seriously. Doing so will result in more deaths. It's possible to flatten the curve and save lives. Doing so is imperative.  

As Rhett said, if you can honestly and in good faith observe what is going on globally and look to the CDC stats as evidence that this is overblown and media hysteria, you simply do not understand what the numbers mean or how to interpret them. Full stop. 

If you would of read under the cdc information WHO is listed. unfortunately you are one of those that refuse to read ALL the information made available to them and think they have all the answers! Your assumptions figure the entire worlds outcomes are all the same. You are wrong! I have also listed only information that is linked to credible sources this entire article. You haven't! You are no authority!

Edited by DesignzShop

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As I mentioned earlier in the topic, I think it's a struggle for some to get the big picture of this. Setting aside the "death rate" for a moment - the larger concern is the capacity of the healthcare system. The only reason the death toll isn't higher is because there's thousands and thousands of people currently being saved by ventilators. If we do not continue to try and get ahead of this, we will run out of capacity. You needn't have a medical degree nor be an epidemiologist to know that if ventilators and beds are saving lives and we run out of same, we will be unable to save those that could otherwise be (and are currently being) saved. Also consider the capacity for non-covid patients. Hospitals existed for things other than intubating covid patients before this and those issues have not suddenly gone away. 

As new information comes out (such as the potential benefits of combination drug therapy) - the long-term future is very bright, from a health perspective anyway. In the interim, we still very much need to take it seriously and follow instructions. Again, not because the virus is going to wipe out earth, but because we cannot sustain the number of new cases still on a strong upward trend. 

I still remain baffled why there's STILL a segment of society (albeit a minority) that just can't get their heads around it. Somewhere between "retreat to my bomb shelter with 3,000 rolls of Charmin" and "pfft. media hype. I'll do what I want" would be ideal. Nonetheless, there's a growing number of people who are trying to look forward and come up with creative solutions to the economic fallout and that is encouraging. 

As an aside, when I said leave politics out of this, I meant leave partisan politics out of it. This isn't the place to discuss politicians or their respective parties. 

Be safe. 

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Posted (edited)
11 minutes ago, Lindy said:

The only reason the death toll isn't higher is because there's thousands and thousands of people currently being saved by ventilators.

The information from the CDC I left also includes serious case percentages which could include or not include ventilators here in the US.

 

11 minutes ago, Lindy said:

I still remain baffled why there's STILL a segment of society (albeit a minority) that just can't get their heads around it.

I think most have gotten their head around it to a degree however, the mass hysteria has gone way overboard and not's not as bad as some of the media is making it out to be in the US or some individuals. The numbers are real from the CDC and the CDC information doesn't lie, it's supposed to be taken seriously, but driving people to the point of panic in the form dis-information is not acceptable. It's created a situation that's left everyone, especially the elderly fighting for everything they need just to survive.

Edited by DesignzShop

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Posted (edited)
23 minutes ago, DesignzShop said:

If you would of read under the cdc information WHO is listed. unfortunately you are one of those that refuse to read ALL the information made available to them and think they have all the answers! Your assumptions figure the entire worlds outcomes are all the same. You are wrong!

It has nothing to do with me. I'm simply reading and understanding what the global epidemiological community is saying. If I'm wrong, then that means the global epidemiological community (who are far more knowledgeable about these things) is also wrong. It means our health care workers who understand the limitations of our health care systems are wrong. It means our local and state governments who understand exponential growth curves and human migration patterns are wrong.

It strikes me as far more likely that they are actually right, and perhaps the random guy pushing discredited, fabricated and purposely misconstrued narratives regarding H1N1 and Dr. Oz quotes in an attempt to demonstrate he's right and everyone else is wrong is perhaps just...wrong. 

I look at information intake as being akin to being a forum admin. One of the greatest skills we have to develop is the ability to parse marketing and sales information and software and technology trends and figure out who is trustworthy and making decisions based on empirical data, and who is out there pretending to be a subject matter expert with nothing of substance behind them. For some people this is easy, and others find this more difficult.

I don't need to read ALL the information made available - I (and everyone else) needs to be able to use critical thought to identify subject matter experts so we can listen to and take advice from them, and also identify and discard from our media intake those who pretend to be experts but simply add noise and confusion. It's unfortunate the amount of noise and outright falsehoods being peddled by those with an aim to divide and confuse, but here we are.

Everyone is of course entitled to their opinion. Of course, not every opinion is grounded in reality, and especially in a situation such as this, where people push their poorly constructed opinions in such a way that could lead to actual harm, they should anticipate and be prepared for push back.

Edited by Morgin

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And BTW, I take care of 2 elderly neighbors and my best friends dad. 2 pf my neighbors are in their 70's and my best friends dad in his 80's! I see the panic from not being able to get what they need like toilet paper and food. I stand in food lines twice a week for these people and give them money out of my pocket plus fix them meals and more. I'm 52 myself. I don't need people making the situation worse. The CDC tells the truth!

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Posted (edited)

There were no misconstrued narratives. Everyone up to this point has failed miserably in the US including with the H1B1 virus that killed 13k people here in the US and went on killing for many years after 2009. Little to no significant action was taken during that time, period.. 

Besides this from the CDC link which I left

 

Quote

COVID-19 Pandemic

A pandemic is a global outbreak of disease. Pandemics happen when a new virus emerges to infect people and can spread between people sustainably. Because there is little to no pre-existing immunity against the new virus, it spreads worldwide.

The virus that causes COVID-19 is infecting people and spreading easily from person-to-person. Cases have been detected in most countries worldwide and community spread is being detected in a growing number of countries. On March 11, the COVID-19 outbreak was characterized as a pandemic by the WHOexternal icon.

This is the first pandemic known to be caused by the emergence of a new coronavirus. In the past century, there have been four pandemics caused by the emergence of novel influenza viruses. As a result, most research and guidance around pandemics is specific to influenza, but the same premises can be applied to the current COVID-19 pandemic. Pandemics of respiratory disease follow a certain progression outlined in a “Pandemic Intervals Framework.” Pandemics begin with an investigation phase, followed by recognition, initiation, and acceleration phases. The peak of illnesses occurs at the end of the acceleration phase, which is followed by a deceleration phase, during which there is a decrease in illnesses. Different countries can be in different phases of the pandemic at any point in time and different parts of the same country can also be in different phases of a pandemic.

There are ongoing investigations to learn more. This is a rapidly evolving situation and information will be updated as it becomes available.

Clearly influenza H1B1 is a solid comparison by WHO and the CDC!

First you say I said no mention of WHO and try and make me look like the mis-informed however, once I proved you didn't read the information presented you say

Quote

I don't need to read ALL the information made available



Convenient now for you to make excuses for being mis-informed and not reading the material presented!

Edited by DesignzShop

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Posted (edited)

Alright @DesignzShop, I did my best. You aren't going to be convinced and prefer to live in an alternate reality from the rest of us, so I'll leave this alone. I hope you and your family good health and safety. I hope your dismissive and arrogant nature doesn't cause harm to anyone else. 

Edited by Morgin

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Just now, Morgin said:

Alright @DesignzShop, I did my best. You aren't going to be convinced, so I'll leave this alone. I hope you and your family good health and safety. I hope your dismissive nature doesn't cause harm to anyone else. 

There is no dismissive nature here, I'm well aware of the situation and the dangers presented here. But I also look at facts by the authoritative people involved like the CDC and WHO. It does no good to place me in a realm that only meets your expectations of what you think. This virus is dangerous, that's been proven, I don't argue that. You seem to miss the entire point for someone reason.

And same to you Morgin, I hope you and your family is safe and everyone else's. I wouldn't want anyone to not be!

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26 minutes ago, DesignzShop said:

It's created a situation that's left everyone, especially the elderly fighting for everything they need just to survive.

Sorry, one last thing from me. 

Given you look after the elderly, I understand your frustration with the panic buying. Honestly, I'm not sure how that should be handled, but I agree it's unfortunate. While I 100% support and understand the rapid shut down and social distancing measures that are required to slow this thing down so health care can keep up, I recognize this does place significant strain on those who aren't as easily able to cope with these sudden changes in routines and buying habits. Ideally, there would have been a top down federal strategy that would have made this whole process smoother and provided assurances to the public that the supply chains would remain in place such that food and household goods would always be available. I think it's fairly apparent now that the response has been fragmented and left a lot of confusion, with people acting in response to that confusion. Even now, you have certain states acting like this is no big deal, while others like NY are already in the midst of it with resources stretched to the brink.

As someone in their middle age, I do take for granted that I'm capable of adapting rapidly to these incredibly fast changes in society that are required. Being elderly and having to deal with being the prime group at risk, and also the disruption to daily routines, must be incredibly difficult. Best of luck to your elderly neighbors and friend's dad - I can't imagine how they feel right now.

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Most people don't know this about me, I'm actually one of those people who go out of their way for mentally challenged people besides taking care of my neighbors and friends Dad. My latest Facebook post. I'm far from an uncaring person who has dis-regard for others. Everytime I go into Walmart and see a group of autistic adults with their caretakers, I drop everything I do and go buy each of them a hotwheel and personally hand each one of them the toy. Their faces light up light sunshine. it's humbling, heart-melting and extremely satisfying to me to be able to do this. Trust me when I say, I give a damn plus some. 

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Well, it's happened; last night our PM addressed the nation in the UK in a Televised broadcast and this is an outline of what he said:

Quote

Strict new curbs on life in the UK to tackle the spread of coronavirus have been announced by the prime minister.

People may only leave home to exercise once a day, to travel to and from work where "absolutely necessary", to shop for essential items, and to fulfil any medical or care needs.

Shops selling non-essential goods have been told to shut and gatherings in public of more than two people who do not live together will be prohibited.

The UK death toll has reached 335.

If people do not follow the rules police will have the powers to enforce them, including through fines and dispersing gatherings, Prime Minister Boris Johnson said in a televised statement from Downing Street.

You can watch it here if you can: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-52012432

This virus must be stopped in its tracks for everyone's sake - the world is grinding to a halt and people everywhere are dying from this disease.  Not even the young are immune to it and as one young fit and healthy woman who contracted the disease put it "It was like having the devil inside of me".  For some, that devil kills them.  People need to wake up to the fact that Governments across the globe do not shut their countries down for something trivial, as some people believe this to be.  The cost for ignoring how dangerous this disease actually is will be more than money, more than not being able to gather together, more than your job - this thing, if it mutates and becomes fully airborne, could decimate the planet.

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5 hours ago, Rhett said:

I am going to say this with all the respect in the world to you, but if you are not seeing the issue here in the US, (it's just starting to get ugly, and will only worsen in the next days, weeks and months), then you must have your head buried in the sand.  If you really think that it will be over with a normal flu season, then you are clearly not following the situation going on.  This isn't the flu in this case, it won't come to a magical halt, and it won't be over anytime soon.

We are preparing for what will be a mass overrun of our care system, for example in California, every business that is not an essential business is shut down, all state parks, all local parks, all govt offices and functions that are not critical are all closed.  Streets are pretty much empty, and it's going to be like this for a while. 

While your area may have it's head in the sand on this one, or you do, I'm not sure which, I would highly recommend you take a look outside your box or windows to see the gravity of this situation.  

What is happening now has nothing to do with whether or not it will still be going around in warm months. So basically you're saying you can see the future and anyone questioning that has his head in the sand.

Also, nobody said it would magically all be gone, but it almost surely will be low enough cases to not be a big deal, or are you ignoring that China has already been having hardly any new cases for a while now?

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Posted (edited)
46 minutes ago, Midnight Modding said:

What is happening now has nothing to do with whether or not it will still be going around in warm months. So basically you're saying you can see the future and anyone questioning that has his head in the sand.

I don't think anybody here is claiming to be able to see the future. But they can see the present, and given what we see happening now in Italy, and might see in Spain and the UK, there is no precautionary measure that would be considered to be over the top. Yes, it may prove that in some cases certain sections of society overreacted, but hindsight is a fine thing. And I think we'd all love to be in the position whereby we can say we did too much, rather than lamenting the lack of precautionary measures that led to the unnecessary deaths of thousands.

 

Edited by christopher-w
Clarification: precautionary* measure

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In the end, I think nothing is going to convince some people here.

They're too short-sighted and have too big of an ego to understand the complexity of the matter at hand.

No matter how much we tell them the reason there's been a drastic decrease in the number of new cases in places like China is because of the extreme measures they have taken, they'll continue to think they're right and that the virus is no big deal.

Once this is all over, they're going to look back and convince themselves that they were right and that literally all major governments and health organizations were the ones who were wrong to "overreact," because that's just how some people are.

The only good news is that they are mostly a minority and their opinions don't really matter at this point. Everyone else is taking this seriously, as they should.

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58 minutes ago, christopher-w said:

 But they can see the present, and given what we see happening now in Italy, and might see in Spain and the UK, there is no precautionary measure that would be considered to be over the top.

I agree, but one thing about some countries, maybe Italy and Spain, is that they have a higher antibiotic resistence in their population than we have in other countries. It might be the mix of Korona, and antibiotic resistence that makes it difficult to treat pasients in some countries. 

It is troubling times for everybody. Into second week with school at home for my kids, and strangely enough it is become routine and they are used to it and self diciplined on their Ipads. Nobody has the virus here in this area yet, and a lot of people have been tested without any virus, so that is good so far.

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4 hours ago, DesignzShop said:

I'm actually one of those people who go out of their way for mentally challenged people besides taking care of my neighbors and friends Dad

Great to see.

1 hour ago, Makoto said:

The only good news is that they are mostly a minority and their opinions don't really matter at this point. Everyone else is taking this seriously, as they should.

I do like the way most folks  have been working together. In our village (20 miles west of Heathrow) folks are helping each other in a gentle way. For example, texts between folks offering to share pre-booked grocery deliveries. Although on the other hand, one does question the foresight that had one neighbour booking several deliveries in advance as soon as this hit.

I'm reminded of Transcendentalists Thoreau and Emerson and in particular Thoreau's Walden which questioned the weight of government, reminding us from 19th Century America, that govt. should be for the people, not people for the govt. But in some cases, even advocates like me who believe governments are too heavy handed in general, believe that in the current circumstances governments in general haven't intervened enough.

24 minutes ago, Kjell Iver Johansen said:

I agree, but one thing about some countries, maybe Italy and Spain, is that they have a higher antibiotic resistence in their population than we have in other countries. It might be the mix of Korona, and antibiotic resistence that makes it difficult to treat pasients in some countries. 

I've just watched an interview with a guy in Stockholm  on the BBC (sorry, didn't know his name or position) who said that they are unsure of what caused the situation in Italy. One proposal was that Italy was infected much earlier than reported, and, or that certain unknown 'accelerators' have made the situation worse there. Which adds some weight to your thoughts on resistance.

One thing that did trouble me from Italy was a comment from a mayor of one of worst affected cities. Both his daughters were studying in the UK and he implied quite heavily that the UK hadn't learned from their experiences in Italy and because of this had recalled his daughters back to their virus hotspot home.

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The measures being taken now are to slow the rate of infections and save as many lives as possible - that's not getting rid of the virus and until a vaccine is made available it can come back any time. Viruses don't take note of seasons - the only reason why there are more colds and flu around in the winter is because people spend more time indoors with their central heating turned up.  So, whilst the numbers may be levelling out or falling in some places it's through the extreme measures being taken - period.  Stop that before a vaccine is ready to be deployed and the virus can come back and keep coming back until we can defend against it.  Our PM initially said this could be licked in 12 weeks, that was quickly revised up to 12 months or more after being advised by the medical experts.  Now, we are pretty much in lock down and the measures currently being taken could even be ramped up further.

Everyone needs to take a reality check - whole countries don't just shut down for something trivial; governments don't take it upon themselves to pay people's wages when they're not allowed to work if this were trivial.  It's not trivial, it is deadly (with emphasis on the word 'deadly') serious. The measures being taken worldwide are there to keep us as safe as possible and people need to understand this and let it sink right in - we're not being punished, we're being protected.  As hard as it may be to stay at home and not mix with others, it's the right call by the governments of all nations and we need to respect that, and respect each other.

Sad times, strange times, ugly times that many have never had to endure, but we have to do this to save lives - that's more important than sports events, concerts and swigging gallons of beer down at the pub with your mates.  Just pray that it doesn't mutate and become even more deadly because if it does then all the moaning in the world won't stop you from becoming the next victim and then it will be time up.

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Just a reminder that we should review this topic in a year's time and let history judge us.

China had a fairly low mortality rate once they got in front of it because of many reasons (welding people into their homes, removing people from homes who had a temperature, and so on) and the main one is they rapidly expanded their hospital capabilities so the 20% who need hospital support had it.

Without those extra beds, the mortality rate would explode.

The key thing is to slow the spread so people trickle into hospitals and do not pour in like an avalanche.

If everyone gets the treatment they want, the mortality rate will end up around 0.19% (seasonal flu is 0.02% FTR).

If everyone gets sick at the same time, just google "Spanish Flu 1918" to find out what will happen.

The impact to people's mental health, and the economy is also important because there is a risk that millions will die from hunger, poverty and mental health issues. A balance is needed. But right now while this pandemic is ripping through the world and there is not a single cure or single proven medical intervention to help other than ventilate and cross your fingers the sensible thing is to slow its spread by reducing human contact.

Once we get proven medical interventions (that don't risk heart attack) that drive down mortality rates we can start to lift restrictions because hospitals can cope with more.

Finally, "mild" cases are common - about 80%. A friend currently has a "mild" case which won't require hospitalisation, and here's a rough description from them:

8 days in bed, too weak to lift my head. Coughing up so much my back is in constant pain. There are times I feel like I'm choking and can't breathe. I can't talk for more than a few minutes and I feel like I'm burning up from the inside.

That's a mild case. He'll get better. But why on earth would you gamble with this? Do you want to risk dying alone next week after days of torture? No friends of family to hold your hand as you slip away? Just a nurse waiting for you to die so they can use the ventilator for the next person laying on a corridor floor coughing and trying to breathe? Your body carried in procession with thousands of others to a hidden cremation no one will attend?

Stay home. That's all we're being asked to do. The economy recovery will have to wait a few more weeks or months.

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Interesting topic and one which I have going on in a few of my forums as well. Its a rough time all over the world, and one thing for sure is that it spreads fast. I live about 60 miles north of New York City and about 45 miles from New Rochelle, NY (where the doctor was said to have been the first in that area to get it in Westchester). It has spread massively since then and continues to do so daily. Its also important to note that the more you test, the more the numbers will continue to go up. My young kids have Chromebooks and google classroom, home schooled for now. My work has forced us to stay home and cancel all travel. Luckily we stocked up and have been sitting at home for the last week or so. I made a couple of trips to the stores but that's about it. We are doing our part to practice social distancing. Chances are, someone in my neighborhood will get it soon, at this rate. We'll be sitting at home for at least 2 more weeks as I see it, maybe more.

Today New York is starting trials with chloroquine and hydroxychloroquine, so in the coming weeks we should hear about results. If results are good, things will start to calm down. In my view the issue is that its very contagious, there is no "official" treatment, and medical is under-equipped to handle the surge. I will also add that there are a lot of online comments about people getting sick back in November and December with high fevers and "flu-like" symptoms, which have baffled some doctors. Both my young daughters were sick in December and January and both ended up with pneumonia with my youngest at the ER because her fever would not go down. I would not be surprised if COVID-19 was in the US prior to what has been reported. No-one was testing for it or really knew about it. My wife and I had some flu-like symptoms after that with low grade fevers, but got over it.

On that note, I bought a bunch of tonic water (has diluted quinine) and will "self medicate" with some gin! 

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How are your sites doing?

Mine is crazy busy - analytics wise my traffic is way up and time on site for each visitor has almost doubled. Topic is unrelated to covid but I think it’s just people being at home and having more time. 

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This is the scenario that I have been fearing:

Quote

SCIENTISTS believe they have found 40 mutations of coronavirus - and say seven cases can be traced back to a single football match in England.

The mutations were discovered by analysing swabs of Covid-19 patients in Iceland - where almost 600 cases have been reported so far.

The new findings – which have not yet been published, meaning they have yet to be scrutinised by other experts – show cases in Iceland could be traced back to three countries, England, Austria and Italy.

All viruses undergo mutations as they evolve, which may or may not cause them to behave in different ways.

Some mutations will make a virus more infectious, others more deadly.

Read the full story HERE if you are able to access the site

As the death toll continues to rise in the UK the idiots are running wild:

People still grouping together - many of them stating "I'm not sick, why should I stay at home"

Pubs, which had to close last Friday evening until further notice find that Landlords have been holding prohibition-style lock-ins despite the ban

Hospitals overrun and reaching critical mass and some staff even refusing to work with Covid-19 verified patients

Some businesses refusing to close and even ramping up prices by ridiculous amounts - people will remember once this is over (whenever that may be)

In the UK the death toll hit 422 today, with 8,077 people infected. The youngest victim being just 18 years old.

It's time people were 'made' to behave responsibly and show some consideration for others.

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Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, christopher-w said:

I don't think anybody here is claiming to be able to see the future.

yes, the post I made said they simply should not have postponbed something 4 months ahead of time and he said my head was in the sand if I don't know it will be bad in 4 months. Even today an expert said it would be done spreading in 3 months...

7 hours ago, Matt said:

Just a reminder that we should review this topic in a year's time and let history judge us.

and if it's not bad in a few months, people are still not going to admit we didn't know if it would still be bad then or not, they will claim "it would have still been bad, but we stopped it with the quarantining! [that many aren't following]".

and if it is still bad, well I never said it wouldn't be. I said people don't know yet and should wait before postponing things 4 months out. You know people are overreacting when they imply that saying "wait before postponing"  is the side that is illogical. Contrary to what people are saying in here, there is not a consensus of experts saying it will be bad until x date.

Also there are more and more people in the news saying all of the things I have been saying from day one. For instance, that things can't stay shut down long term and that older people are who should remain quarantined. Also the sensationalism where they find a few people who have died from it and make big stories, while totally ignoring the many more people who have died from the flu this year. So I guess people don't care about the flu victims' lives, since they weren't willing to quarantine for them.

Edited by Midnight Modding

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