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Discord is killing our forum


Interferon

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57 minutes ago, Alismora said:

I have yet to find anyone who doesn't use it

The first time I have heard of Discord was here on invisioncommunity.com. I have never seen or used it though :rolleyes: I guess it is something for the gaming communities and I have no games to play on mine.:biggrin:

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My community uses it a lot. @Alismora's solution is a good way to enhance your community with Discord but it wouldn't work for us (people are lazy and they'd just go to the competition who "doesn't make using discord a hassle"). I use the option of notifications when something (anything really) is posted on the community so the people know and can take a look but out community is the type that got lazy... And took most of the discussions to discord despite staff animating and trying to redirect the traffic.

This might be caused by the life-stage the community is in (we're mostly about Star Citizen and the development is sloooooow and lasts since 2012 so many people have burned out) and may change in the future.

To sum all this up - in our case fighting discord is like fighting an ocean - utterly useless, will make you tired and you'll lose a lot and gain nothing. Instead I try to use it hovewer much I can to bolster the website. What will happen in the future? Time will tell. If discord gets taken over, becomes paid or whatever we always have the community where 100% of content is ours, we have control over what is happening and can do whatever we wish to make it a place people want to stick with.

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1 hour ago, Sonya* said:

I guess it is something for the gaming communities and I have no games to play on mine

I'm in 37 servers and can assure you none of them are gaming-focused.  😎  Discord is being used by people from all walks of life even though it did start out as a communication platform for gaming guilds and clans.  Most of my servers are focused around artists and artisan crafters.

I lied, I found one belonging to a twitch art streamer who sometimes plays games. 

Invision bums me out sometimes because it seems like their client base is saturated with gaming communities and questionably legal marketplaces, though I'm basing this on who I've encountered in my short 1+ year so far in this forum.  It's severely evident in the marketplace with a lot of plugins, and themes especially, heavily geared towards those in the gaming side of the internet.  I've said this before, but I usually have to do some sort of extra customization to get most third party content to work in the way we need it to.  Discord was an easy decision to make and so far it's been extremely positive.

Image result for improvise adapt overcome

Edited by Alismora
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2 hours ago, Alismora said:

I'm in 37 servers and can assure you none of them are gaming-focused.  😎  Discord is being used by people from all walks of life even though it did start out as a communication platform for gaming guilds and clans.  Most of my servers are focused around artists and artisan crafters.

I lied, I found one belonging to a twitch art streamer who sometimes plays games. 

Invision bums me out sometimes because it seems like their client base is saturated with gaming communities and questionably legal marketplaces, though I'm basing this on who I've encountered in my short 1+ year so far in this forum.  It's severely evident in the marketplace with a lot of plugins, and themes especially, heavily geared towards those in the gaming side of the internet.  I've said this before, but I usually have to do some sort of extra customization to get most third party content to work in the way we need it to.  Discord was an easy decision to make and so far it's been extremely positive.

Image result for improvise adapt overcome

With the new ips app we can overcome

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On 9/12/2019 at 8:51 AM, Matt said:

Our absolute number one aim with Invision Community is to provide a platform that enables rich discussion of a topic with permanence.

There are a hundred directions we could take our software, so we have to choose wisely.

Before we add major new functionality, we ask ourselves "does this enhance multi-person rich discussion of a topic or does it detract from it?"

I can see the value for a strong chat/instant messaging app for some communities. But for others it'll just cannibalise those rich discussions into instant chats which are then disposed. You will move your community from a state of permanence into social media where conversations are lost after a few hours.

Please do not assume that just because we do not do a thing, it means we don't care, or we haven't discussed it at length internally.

If you are screaming at us because our software doesn't provide the functionality you require, then perhaps you are trying to fit a square peg into a round hole, and you are now just hitting us with a hammer and demanding we make it fit.

If you need instant discussion and accept that discussion will become disposable, then you are probably better off with a Facebook Group.

best gif thumbs up GIF

Let's get over the "Permanent" type conversation debate. Is Twitter "Permanent"? Is IPS somehow more "Permanent" than FB? I seriously doubt it.

I'm not screaming. Just stating my wants / needs. 

I've resigned myself to these limitations (sadly)

I guess time will tell.....

A Model T still works... yes.....

Car Model T GIF by GSI Machine and Fabrication

But Teslas are being built with autopilot.... and all I'm asking for is a simple cruise control.....

coding elon musk GIF

So.... your answer is that we go to Facebook?

 

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  • Management

Yes. I firmly believe that our strong categorisation and organisation of content does make us more permanent than Twitter.

Twitter like most “feed” style apps are very much in the now. Conversations come and go. Subjects trend and then fade.

is it trivial to reply to a twitter thread from 2 weeks ago? Not without a lot of scrolling or using the search tools. There is no organisation or segmentation of conversation.

I don’t think it’s fair to position us as the “Model T” as you assume we are stuck in our ways and refuse to change the format blindly.

(I’m replying to you on our mobile app)

We we have launched many high end communities for global brands and they come to us because they don’t want a chat style community.

So, I’m not telling you to do anything. I’m just saying that if you want a chat style community then this isn’t the product that suits your needs.

 

FAD37AE4-76FF-4BCD-8C86-90F39DFF4AAB.jpg

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I‘m a member of several gardening, bonsai and 3D printer Facebook groups and it’s really an annoying experience.

The same questions are being asked daily/weekly because it’s as Matt said, only a Feed and everything posted one day ago is getting lost... . People are losing the interest and leaving the group or starting alternative groups for more advanced people which is IMO really bad, it’s just getting a devils circle. Have you also ever tried to find a specific comment or your own reply? 9 of 10 times I couldn’t find what I was searching for. 

Its really great that there are so many interesting groups and people and that one can join all the groups without new registrations and googling and only using the Facebook search, but the results are more then depressing and disappointing. One can’t even watch / follow content 😞 

same with WhatsApp.. I’m in a parents group and it’s a literal discussion flow... one really can’t share any useful and important information with others... the Informationen but also the Diskussion will get just get lost between all the other side discussions.

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7 hours ago, Matt said:

Yes. I firmly believe that our strong categorisation and organisation of content does make us more permanent than Twitter.

Twitter like most “feed” style apps are very much in the now. Conversations come and go. Subjects trend and then fade.

is it trivial to reply to a twitter thread from 2 weeks ago? Not without a lot of scrolling or using the search tools. There is no organisation or segmentation of conversation.

I don’t think it’s fair to position us as the “Model T” as you assume we are stuck in our ways and refuse to change the format blindly.

(I’m replying to you on our mobile app)

We we have launched many high end communities for global brands and they come to us because they don’t want a chat style community.

So, I’m not telling you to do anything. I’m just saying that if you want a chat style community then this isn’t the product that suits your needs.

 

FAD37AE4-76FF-4BCD-8C86-90F39DFF4AAB.jpg

We only have to look at our own communities/facebook pages/groups. How often do 6 month old topics get bumped up on facebook page compared to forums, despite facebook having much higher traffic!

Edited by Steve Bullman
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  • 5 months later...

I just wonder, why over years IPS did not improve Commerce to ship it along with better customer assistance tools. It would be great to have there a live chat feature, with rooms and queue. I realize IPS wants to implement only features that are essential, however the chat is being requested over years and years. I also noticed they prefer to implement support of third parties, what is understood-able, less to handle by IPS directly. Anyway, I think live chat, with queue and auto-assignment of potential customer to a agent would be great addition as a part of commerce.

Third party services get more and more expensive, by simple solutions from IPS you could save a lot of money of your customers and therefore slightly instead price of your products. This way people will be happy to pay you slightly more than spending millions on third party services linked to IPB.

Over years the biggest plus of IPS solutions was that we had all in one place, no tones of additional services to manage, pay, remember, configure, adjust, change. We had our IPS software and it was enough for 99% of users but I see it is changing.

Edited by PatrickRQ
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On 3/11/2020 at 7:31 AM, PatrickRQ said:

I just wonder, why over years IPS did not improve Commerce to ship it along with better customer assistance tools. It would be great to have there a live chat feature, with rooms and queue. I realize IPS wants to implement only features that are essential, however the chat is being requested over years and years. I also noticed they prefer to implement support of third parties, what is understood-able, less to handle by IPS directly. Anyway, I think live chat, with queue and auto-assignment of potential customer to a agent would be great addition as a part of commerce.

Third party services get more and more expensive, by simple solutions from IPS you could save a lot of money of your customers and therefore slightly instead price of your products. This way people will be happy to pay you slightly more than spending millions on third party services linked to IPB.

Over years the biggest plus of IPS solutions was that we had all in one place, no tones of additional services to manage, pay, remember, configure, adjust, change. We had our IPS software and it was enough for 99% of users but I see it is changing.

This might not be useful to you depending on how big your community is, but zendesk has a free plan for their chat support.  It has restrictions of course, but it works if having just one person handling chat support, or having multiple people use the same account for different time zones, is something that works for you.

Chat support is only available to our VIP members and we currently use the free plan, though upgrading is still very cheap.

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What I didn’t understand is with the discontinuation of chat why couldn’t it be changed to self host it? Then make it so the chat is deleted after x amount of days. You would’ve kept your add on fee that you charged and people would be happy. 😎

Edited by Dean_
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Just now, Dean_

What I didn’t understand is with the discontinuation of chat why couldn’t it be changed to self host it? Then make it so the chat is deleted after x amount of days. You would’ve kept your add on fee that you charged and people would be happy. 😎

IPS would then be required to continue supporting it and maintaining it. I can only imagine how many chat rooms would be installed on shared or inadequate hosting, resulting in performance problems and then, subsequently, support tickets.

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On 9/12/2019 at 5:51 PM, Matt said:

Our absolute number one aim with Invision Community is to provide a platform that enables rich discussion of a topic with permanence.

There are a hundred directions we could take our software, so we have to choose wisely.

Before we add major new functionality, we ask ourselves "does this enhance multi-person rich discussion of a topic or does it detract from it?"

I can see the value for a strong chat/instant messaging app for some communities. But for others it'll just cannibalise those rich discussions into instant chats which are then disposed. You will move your community from a state of permanence into social media where conversations are lost after a few hours.

Please do not assume that just because we do not do a thing, it means we don't care, or we haven't discussed it at length internally.

If you are screaming at us because our software doesn't provide the functionality you require, then perhaps you are trying to fit a square peg into a round hole, and you are now just hitting us with a hammer and demanding we make it fit.

If you need instant discussion and accept that discussion will become disposable, then you are probably better off with a Facebook Group.

best gif thumbs up GIF

How can it detract if it is optional. Some communities seriously need it. It is a bad argument to say you shouldn't grow to meet a changing environment.

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17 minutes ago, Frank Jorgensen said:

 Some communities seriously need it. 

☞ 

On 9/15/2019 at 10:08 AM, Matt said:

So, I’m not telling you to do anything. I’m just saying that if you want a chat style community then this isn’t the product that suits your needs.

 

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  • 3 months later...

I just disabled our Discord server and some people were very angry with me. This is proof it was a bad idea to ever start it. They will steal your community and give you nothing. DO NOT hand your hard-earned community over to any third-party Silicon Valley assholes like Discord or Reddit.

Edited by Interferon
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7 minutes ago, Interferon said:

I just disabled our Discord server and some people were very angry with me. This is proof it was a bad idea to ever start it. They will steal your community and give you nothing. DO NOT hand your hard-earned community over to any third-party Silicon Valley assholes like Discord or Reddit.

This is what my community asked for and refused to have it because I knew back then this would happen to the community. What you did was a very wise decision. 

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I think you don't understand the idea behind community and a discord server. Lets pick for example a gaming community, these kind of community is „hosting” different gaming servers and users create their account with the porpose of be in contact with the server news or even request a rank or a unban. Discord allows users to speak with their voice instead of write PM. If you know how to manage all these things your forum will not die, for exemple the community where im one of the original founders use discord and teamspeak and we still not lose any forum members.

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There's a lot of right things being said here but there's also some misunderstanding of the individual platforms offered by IPB. I've dome some experimenting and what I've found out is IPB's creation of Clubs can be used exactly like Facebook. When A member signs up, give them permission to create their own club page, like a facebook page. Clubs has pretty much everything FB does.

Doing this takes your community however in that direction for sure and the way it's implemented is actually in some ways better than facebook or twitter etc.... 

When i said there was right being said here, I agree with the general public now days is about me me me me me. Forums are not about that. Forums are specific in nature. Clubs let's you walk away from that. IPB does have a solution for every need, you just have to step outside the box and use your imagination. It's very very powerful software and can do what you want.

@Matt is dead right here, you can't fit a square peg into a round hole but nothing against Matt here, but I'm not sure even he realizes how powerful the clubs are and he wrote the code for it 😄 Or maybe he does. :ph34r: No reason to look elsewhere imo for another software, Use the powerful options IPB offers.

I suggest to anyone set up a test site and see what I'm talking about. I had a musicians site I tried this out on I owned for 13 years. After I introduced clubs and let my users create their own club, I found from users they would go check their individual club page just like they checked their facebook page. They actually skipped the forums and went straight to their club page. They posted their own music, lessons, videos etc... Users from the forum would join their club and specifically converse on their page instead of the forum. Heck, I even had people selling sheet music in their clubs from the downloads platform. I had instructors who even charged to give online lessons. Seriously, clubs is the biggest hidden FB software platform on the net of software makers.

Depending on what you're trying to accomplish and what your users require this is a freaking awesome feature if you implement correctly. Again, very very powerful.

Edited by DesignzShop
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  • 4 weeks later...

I've implemented ArrowChat and it's okay. I have sent a few messages to people and not received a response, and I believe they are not seeing my chat message.

I think the way Facebook has chat and messages integrated it pretty much optimal. I think that IPB should aim to create something like that.

I don't have a strong opinion on group chat options right now. It would be sort of difficult to blend that and the more in-depth discussion of a forum. But the direct messaging could definitely be improved.

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12 hours ago, Interferon said:

I've implemented ArrowChat and it's okay. I have sent a few messages to people and not received a response, and I believe they are not seeing my chat message.

I think the way Facebook has chat and messages integrated it pretty much optimal. I think that IPB should aim to create something like that.

I don't have a strong opinion on group chat options right now. It would be sort of difficult to blend that and the more in-depth discussion of a forum. But the direct messaging could definitely be improved.

A lot of people might not notice it's there, or you may need to double check group permissions.  I know an issue I had in the beginning was that people were freaking out over the constant dinging from new messages and ended up disabling the chat without realizing what they were doing and forgetting it existed.

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An interesting topic because there has been many, many other services that cater to the instant gratification and social interaction hungry communities over the years. Discord is nothing new in the regard and it is as all other instant communication services temporary in nature. If this is what you actually need then as has already been stated this is not the software for you.

If you add an instant communication to your community then you will very likely end up splitting your community. All communities are divided into those that want instant communication and those that want more extended communication and the type of communication you provide will dictate the community to a certain degree. it also depend on what your community is all about...

If you have a community based on articles on how to build computers, cooking guides or any other type of instructions, then I would hazard to guess that Discord is less useful. It would be like having a support function without a FAQ, quite annoying to always answer the same questions. if you want to discuss politics or religion, then a single communication thread would be pretty bad I think so you would need to divide into many channels, if that even would suffice. Fashion, gossip or movies would probably be pretty great in a discord setting...and so on.

Discord also allow for voice channels, which terrifies some people and appeal greatly to others. So just think about what type of community you want to have and then select the platform that is best suited for that. If you mix, then make sure each platform have a very specific purpose because splitting all conversation across multiple platforms will just dillute things.

 

 

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@Jimi Wikman That's what I am saying. The way Facebook merges instant messages / private messages is ideal. You can quickly write one line to someone, or pop it open in the full editor to write a more detailed message.

I agree, I don't really see a way for group chat to mix with the forum, but 1-on-1 chat / PMs could be done nicely.

Edited by Interferon
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