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Chat System Needed


Dean Spencer
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I had IPS with most of the apps minus commerce and Pages and Recently I had to migrate to XenForo. 

The main reason is that my users come from Discord (thats the only place I'm able to get people from to join)  I've also been waiting on the Discord Integration but the Dev for that app is AWOL. And in Xenforo there's a better integration. 2 of them actually and either works great. 

But what made me leave the most was the lack of a Chat app. All we have in IPS is the Free Chatbox everyone downloads/uses. But my members didn't like it because they couldn't create rooms or Personal Message one another. 

 

I feel IPS or a 3rd party should create an app like this one: https://xenforo.com/community/resources/chat-2-by-siropu.5762/ 

 

a lot of people actually left Discord and began to use my site when I installed Chat By Siropu and my site's activity has gone up by a lot. 

But I, personally prefer IPS. This is my home pretty much. I feel awkward in XenForo and I would like to see someone create a chat application as good as that one I linked or if IPS could make something like this native in 4.4.x  The Gallery over there sucks, The Resource Manager sucks, and there's no Blogs (for 2.x)  I would love to return and renew if we had a chat option like that on IPS. 

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There's a couple of Discord integrations and Babble available in the Marketplace.  There's also integration with Arrowchat and some other third party vendors.  

Keep in mind that IPS terminated Chat as an official application so it's doubtful we will see a return of it in the near future.  

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15 hours ago, Dean Spencer said:

I had IPS with most of the apps minus commerce and Pages and Recently I had to migrate to XenForo. 

The main reason is that my users come from Discord (thats the only place I'm able to get people from to join)  I've also been waiting on the Discord Integration but the Dev for that app is AWOL. And in Xenforo there's a better integration. 2 of them actually and either works great. 

But what made me leave the most was the lack of a Chat app. All we have in IPS is the Free Chatbox everyone downloads/uses. But my members didn't like it because they couldn't create rooms or Personal Message one another. 

 

I feel IPS or a 3rd party should create an app like this one: https://xenforo.com/community/resources/chat-2-by-siropu.5762/ 

 

a lot of people actually left Discord and began to use my site when I installed Chat By Siropu and my site's activity has gone up by a lot. 

But I, personally prefer IPS. This is my home pretty much. I feel awkward in XenForo and I would like to see someone create a chat application as good as that one I linked or if IPS could make something like this native in 4.4.x  The Gallery over there sucks, The Resource Manager sucks, and there's no Blogs (for 2.x)  I would love to return and renew if we had a chat option like that on IPS. 

I have Rocket.Chat on my IP Suit. Then i connect it using OAuth, so people will enter that chat with their forum login credentials. 
If they are logged in on the forum, they don't even need to login on chat, it will simple work.
It will also use their avatar's etc etc.

And you can create Rooms, Private Conversations, etc etc.

image.thumb.png.7108d7ed6d7108427a1f537c16ed86e3.png

Edited by RevengeFNF
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16 hours ago, tonyv said:

Why did IPS remove the chat system?

Because of constant decline in terms of popularity. They decided to remove chat and give more effort to more popular functionality.

And it was right decision. Nowadays everything should work in chat-like instant manner, so chat as independent app just not needed. I hope in future they will put more effort on instant interaction (messaging) directly in all existing apps including PM and forums.

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  • 2 months later...
On 11/29/2018 at 6:58 AM, RevengeFNF said:

I have Rocket.Chat on my IP Suit. Then i connect it using OAuth, so people will enter that chat with their forum login credentials. 
If they are logged in on the forum, they don't even need to login on chat, it will simple work.
It will also use their avatar's etc etc.

And you can create Rooms, Private Conversations, etc etc.

image.thumb.png.7108d7ed6d7108427a1f537c16ed86e3.png

Can I test a little in your suite? 

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On 11/29/2018 at 6:58 AM, RevengeFNF said:

I have Rocket.Chat on my IP Suit. Then i connect it using OAuth, so people will enter that chat with their forum login credentials. 
If they are logged in on the forum, they don't even need to login on chat, it will simple work.
It will also use their avatar's etc etc.

And you can create Rooms, Private Conversations, etc etc.

image.thumb.png.7108d7ed6d7108427a1f537c16ed86e3.png

Did you switch from the OAuth plugin we used to the new built in oAuth?  If so, would love your help.

 

And same here... using Rocket.chat and LOVING IT!

Far better than anything IPS had with Ip.Chat and far more reliable.  No offense to IPS... but Chat was not their strong suite.  Towards the end, it was also not very reliable.

Running self hosted rocket.Chat.

image.thumb.png.91840cadca240ef5c3f7a32d075a1bf6.png

 

And a Rocket.Chat plugin showing who is in chat.

image.thumb.png.8249501b4695c4bce933954747601b22.png

Edited by Maksim
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How about we do it right....

and make all personal messages in "real time" so that chat is no longer even a thing.

Think messenger on Facebook.

The world has sped up....

Oh.. while we are over here discussing speeding up 1997 level personal messages....

Marco Polo app is going viral and will threaten even Facebook. (unless they sell out to FB?)

Video chatting is taking over the world. 

We are all behind the 8 ball and just trying to keep up.

 

p.s. - I don't think text messaging will ever go away.... BUT... there is no need for the DELAY in text messaging.... speed it up like messenger did.

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57 minutes ago, TheWorldNewsMedia.org said:

make all personal messages in "real time" so that chat is no longer even a thing.

This is an very interesting topic to explore in more detail.

Let's say for the sake of argument that IPS implemented real-time personal messaging and video chatting. 

Consider the following:

Facebook and other big social media companies have entire buildings full of servers scattered throughout the world and the staff to support them.  As such, they have an incredible amounts of compute power, memory and direct high speed connections to the Internet that enables them to provide "real time" capabilities for a variety of services.  They also have multiple revenue generating income streams in which to pay for it all.

What would be the cost per user per month to support real time personal messages video chatting if we attempted to do it ourselves?  Our costs would be significantly higher than our competitors as we can't take purchase goods and services at the scale they can. 

Would the increased operating costs for implementing real-time personal messaging and video chatting be less than or equal to the amount every site owner could talk their members into paying each month?  Many sites would probably love to have such new functionality, but few of them could probably afford to implement it as they probably won't get enough of the members to pay for something they are used to getting free elsewhere.

Competing against established social media companies will require serious out of the box thinking.  I am curious to see all of the out of the box approaches people suggest to overcome the obstacles I mentioned above.

 

 

 

 

 

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3 hours ago, TheWorldNewsMedia.org said:

How about we do it right....

and make all personal messages in "real time" so that chat is no longer even a thing.

Think messenger on Facebook.

The world has sped up....

Oh.. while we are over here discussing speeding up 1997 level personal messages....

Marco Polo app is going viral and will threaten even Facebook. (unless they sell out to FB?)

Video chatting is taking over the world. 

We are all behind the 8 ball and just trying to keep up.

 

p.s. - I don't think text messaging will ever go away.... BUT... there is no need for the DELAY in text messaging.... speed it up like messenger did.

In reality... NO.

Messenger is essentially private message systems on forums.

Video Chatting is okay... but seriously, do you only Facetime?  99% of the time you either send a text message or do a voice call.  Video Chat is only good if you want to show something.

Having video chat only means I have to take a look in the mirror as to how I look BEFORE I pick up the phone or what not.

Besides, do you really want video chats with someone sitting in the bathroom?  That is where A LOT of the forum and facebook usage happens.

Beyond that... look at livestreaming like Periscope, Meerkat, Blab and Facebook Live.  Relatively speaking... it is a failure and most people I know who did A LOT of live streaming, are no longer doing it.

 

In reality, the vast majority of traffic is still to articles, stories and recorded videos.  It is not to live streaming type stuff.

The BEAUTY and value of forums is that it is not just about "right now" but rather the past, the present and the future.

6 hours ago, Steph40 said:

As far as I know rocket.chat is free is you host it. You can pay to use their server if you want.

 

On 1/31/2019 at 8:51 PM, kmk said:

Why rocket chat cloud charge by user? That mean live chat operator,?

 

6 hours ago, kmk said:

40.00 by year, so good no??

and have original platform developer maintaining the server and all...I think is a good option, which will be your choice? babble or rocketchat?

 

Rocket.Chat started out as  self hosted solution.  This is still 100% free.

For those that do not want to deploy it on own servers, they have a paid option, aka IPS vs IPS Cloud.

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6 hours ago, Christopher Anderson said:

This is an very interesting topic to explore in more detail.

Let's say for the sake of argument that IPS implemented real-time personal messaging and video chatting. 

Consider the following:

Facebook and other big social media companies have entire buildings full of servers scattered throughout the world and the staff to support them.  As such, they have an incredible amounts of compute power, memory and direct high speed connections to the Internet that enables them to provide "real time" capabilities for a variety of services.  They also have multiple revenue generating income streams in which to pay for it all.

What would be the cost per user per month to support real time personal messages video chatting if we attempted to do it ourselves?  Our costs would be significantly higher than our competitors as we can't take purchase goods and services at the scale they can. 

Would the increased operating costs for implementing real-time personal messaging and video chatting be less than or equal to the amount every site owner could talk their members into paying each month?  Many sites would probably love to have such new functionality, but few of them could probably afford to implement it as they probably won't get enough of the members to pay for something they are used to getting free elsewhere.

Competing against established social media companies will require serious out of the box thinking.  I am curious to see all of the out of the box approaches people suggest to overcome the obstacles I mentioned above.

IPS already priced it out for us.  You're essentially asking for the old chat.  

6 hours ago, Maksim said:

Besides, do you really want video chats with someone sitting in the bathroom?  That is where A LOT of the forum and facebook usage happens.

I'm rather scared to ask what room of the house you were in when you wrote this post LOL.  

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Clarification on my earlier post...

I do not expect there to be some video chat enabled anytime soon.... and I wouldn't want it to replace chatting.

 

But the text chatting needs to be real time like messenger....

 

My point was that the world has sped up.... and it's not slowing down...

 

the FUTURE is probably more like Marco Polo... and less like 1997 clunky post and response that takes 30 seconds to populate....

 

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2 hours ago, TheWorldNewsMedia.org said:

Clarification on my earlier post...

I do not expect there to be some video chat enabled anytime soon.... and I wouldn't want it to replace chatting.

 

But the text chatting needs to be real time like messenger....

 

My point was that the world has sped up.... and it's not slowing down...

 

the FUTURE is probably more like Marco Polo... and less like 1997 clunky post and response that takes 30 seconds to populate....

 

So... it already is real time... Rocket.Chat. 😃

8 hours ago, Joel R said:

IPS already priced it out for us.  You're essentially asking for the old chat.  

I'm rather scared to ask what room of the house you were in when you wrote this post LOL.  

LOL, I will let you guess.

BUT... this one, my more well thought out responses are posted from my office. 

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20 hours ago, TheWorldNewsMedia.org said:

How about we do it right....

A new train of thought was initiated by @TheWorldNewsMedia.org 19 hours ago and was followed up with 2 comments 15 hours ago and then 8 hours ago and then 3 hours ago and the last one 31 minutes ago. 

5 hours ago, TheWorldNewsMedia.org said:

the FUTURE is probably more like Marco Polo... and less like 1997 clunky post and response that takes 30 seconds to populate....

There are a lot of conversations that play out over the course of days or weeks before coming to some conclusion or it simply peters out.  Most of the suggestion topics end up petering out.  None of us participating in this particular conversation were online within the same minute let alone the same second so having a real time messaging solution wouldn't be of much use to us here.  How many of the real time conversations on any given site will be meaningful enough that a member would be willing to offset the costs for supporting such functionality?  There is demand (I'm interested down the road but my members will see the value of paying for such functionality) but not enough for IPS to provide a replacement for their deprecated chat app or for the existing chat providers to thrive as their customer base is small.  Drive up demand and things might change for the better.

Check out:

https://betalist.com

This site lists many startups that offer a multitude of internet based products including various real time communications offerings.  If you can bring together a large enough group of sites they may be talked into integrating their product with the IPS suite.

 

Edited by Christopher Anderson
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I added arrowchat to my site and it's the best option for what we needed, which was an IM system with the ability to create simple chatrooms.

We didn't want to add any discord-like chat systems to our site because we would rather our member's utilize clubs instead of creating rooms with custom channels.

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5 hours ago, Alismora said:

I added arrowchat to my site and it's the best option for what we needed, which was an IM system with the ability to create simple chatrooms.

We didn't want to add any discord-like chat systems to our site because we would rather our member's utilize clubs instead of creating rooms with custom channels.

Hi, can I take a look your site? 

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