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TheJackal84

Tournaments ( Support Topic )

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4 minutes ago, mrbowers said:

Hey jack " Duplicate entry 'team_invitation' for key 'PRIMARY'" error for uploading already. 

 

team_invitation is nothing on this app mate, that is a database error and there is not team_invitation in the database, Do you have that custom tournaments app installed still? if so they probably are both using the same name so when your suite is pulling in the data it is getting confused with them both

Edited by TheJackal84

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1 minute ago, mrbowers said:

Well that's good to know. Guess I will have IPB purge the old one. thanks.

Yeah that's what I was going to say, as your on cloud you will need to contact IPS and get them to remove the older tournaments files, make sure it is not installed for when they do it as well

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Hi! This application looks great and I'm interested in getting it as it is, but it doesn't quite fit what I would fully want, so I want to gauge interest from my fellow admins and from site users before purchase. 

I run a forum for competitive debate and I would like to be able to host online tournaments simply, but a simple single elimination bracket isn't quite sufficient. I have a few different suggestions and they're definitely not too debate-specific to be generally applicable to anyone who wants to host tournaments.

The way debate tournaments are typically structured involve a set of preliminary matches (usually 4-8) that are used to determine seeding and only a set number of teams move into single elimination matches (ex. the top half of prelim performers, only a set number of competitors, only people with winning records, etc.). Usually after each preliminary match or every 2, competitors are re-seeded and placed in appropriate skill brackets. So it's functionally a Swiss format with a single elimination bracket added on to it. Seeding usually happens by win record with the first tiebreaker being "speaker points" given by judges on quality of speaking, but there is a shift toward using "opponent wins" as the first tiebreaker, which cumulatively adds the wins of opponents in order to weigh the difficulty their preliminary matches. 

Other tournament structure options that would be interesting to add:

- Loser brackets: Allowing teams to compete after losing helps determine overall placing in a single elimination bracket.

- Double elimination: requiring 2 losses to be fully eliminated

- Round robin: everyone has a match against one another and then either the best record wins the tournament OR the best 2 teams have a finals match.

- Tournament series: setting up a series of qualifying tournaments that result in a championship tournament among the top performer

 

Other features that would be interesting to see: 

- Integration with commerce - Both for charging tournament entry fees and paying out tournament prizes (being a percentage of the entry fee total). I understand the desire to require people to purchase members shop for this kind of function, but that's not quite what I'm looking for and I think a lot of site owners would probably be willing to pay a higher price for this application with commerce integrated.

- Integration with calendar - Being able to schedule tournament events automatically. 

- Creation of "Leagues" - Allow users to create their own leagues who then administer tournaments to participating teams. Integrating with commerce could mean leagues require membership fees that the site can take commission off of and league owners can charge entry fees for their tournaments that the site can get commission off of as well. Kind of steps up user involvement and investment in participating while allowing site owners to step back from needing to be too heavily involved in constant moderation. Permissions on who can create leagues and requiring league approval would clearly be necessary. Maybe allow for non-league tournaments but attach different commission settings to them. 

- Since my site is about debate, adding an extra layer to teams would be useful. Schools operate as squads with multiple teams who compete individually in a tournament, BUT teams from the same school can't compete against one another. I think that this would also be attractive to users if there was the possibility of winning a prize as it ups their odds. That said, I think it would be ideal to have tournament settings involve allowing teams in the same squad to compete against one another or not. (I'm not sure if this is included when you say "Create unlimited categories and sub categories for members to create teams.")

- Show teams on user profiles. 

- Expand stats to also include history of tournament placing, not just W/L and ELO.

- Ability to set start times for rounds of matches to keep it on schedule as well as notifications for start times/notifications for when pairings are released

I do have some more debate-specific ideas I may ask to have done custom (if you're willing) after purchase and after some other things have been updated with this application.

Edited by colind525

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2 hours ago, colind525 said:

Hi! This application looks great and I'm interested in getting it as it is, but it doesn't quite fit what I would fully want, so I want to gauge interest from my fellow admins and from site users before purchase. 

I run a forum for competitive debate and I would like to be able to host online tournaments simply, but a simple single elimination bracket isn't quite sufficient. I have a few different suggestions and they're definitely not too debate-specific to be generally applicable to anyone who wants to host tournaments.

The way debate tournaments are typically structured involve a set of preliminary matches (usually 4-8) that are used to determine seeding and only a set number of teams move into single elimination matches (ex. the top half of prelim performers, only a set number of competitors, only people with winning records, etc.). Usually after each preliminary match or every 2, competitors are re-seeded and placed in appropriate skill brackets. So it's functionally a Swiss format with a single elimination bracket added on to it. Seeding usually happens by win record with the first tiebreaker being "speaker points" given by judges on quality of speaking, but there is a shift toward using "opponent wins" as the first tiebreaker, which cumulatively adds the wins of opponents in order to weigh the difficulty their preliminary matches. 

Other tournament structure options that would be interesting to add:

- Loser brackets: Allowing teams to compete after losing helps determine overall placing in a single elimination bracket.

- Double elimination: requiring 2 losses to be fully eliminated

- Round robin: everyone has a match against one another and then either the best record wins the tournament OR the best 2 teams have a finals match.

- Tournament series: setting up a series of qualifying tournaments that result in a championship tournament among the top performer

 

Other features that would be interesting to see: 

- Integration with commerce - Both for charging tournament entry fees and paying out tournament prizes (being a percentage of the entry fee total). I understand the desire to require people to purchase members shop for this kind of function, but that's not quite what I'm looking for and I think a lot of site owners would probably be willing to pay a higher price for this application with commerce integrated.

- Integration with calendar - Being able to schedule tournament events automatically. 

- Creation of "Leagues" - Allow users to create their own leagues who then administer tournaments to participating teams. Integrating with commerce could mean leagues require membership fees that the site can take commission off of and league owners can charge entry fees for their tournaments that the site can get commission off of as well. Kind of steps up user involvement and investment in participating while allowing site owners to step back from needing to be too heavily involved in constant moderation. Permissions on who can create leagues and requiring league approval would clearly be necessary. Maybe allow for non-league tournaments but attach different commission settings to them. 

- Since my site is about debate, adding an extra layer to teams would be useful. Schools operate as squads with multiple teams who compete individually in a tournament, BUT teams from the same school can't compete against one another. I think that this would also be attractive to users if there was the possibility of winning a prize as it ups their odds. That said, I think it would be ideal to have tournament settings involve allowing teams in the same squad to compete against one another or not. (I'm not sure if this is included when you say "Create unlimited categories and sub categories for members to create teams.")

- Show teams on user profiles. 

- Expand stats to also include history of tournament placing, not just W/L and ELO.

- Ability to set start times for rounds of matches to keep it on schedule as well as notifications for start times/notifications for when pairings are released

I do have some more debate-specific ideas I may ask to have done custom (if you're willing) after purchase and after some other things have been updated with this application.

I really love all these ideas. Just to confirm, we are able to charge a fee with members shop?

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2 hours ago, colind525 said:

Hi! This application looks great and I'm interested in getting it as it is, but it doesn't quite fit what I would fully want, so I want to gauge interest from my fellow admins and from site users before purchase. 

I will see what I can do with it all, I do have some ideas for other tournaments & leagues too

5 minutes ago, Agent Shark said:

I really love all these ideas. Just to confirm, we are able to charge a fee with members shop?

Not charge a fee, you can award points for winning in each round though, I could add it to a update when you can charge points for tournaments etc and even have a pot where it costs say 100 points to enter then they go into a pot and the winner takes it all

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Just now, TheJackal84 said:

I will see what I can do with it all, I do have some ideas for other tournaments & leagues too

Not charge a fee, you can award points for winning in each round though, I could add it to a update when you can charge points for tournaments etc and even have a pot where it costs say 100 points to enter then they go into a pot and the winner takes it all

That sounds like a winner idea. The logic I had when thinking of points for this is:

 

User purchases points via the E-Commerce Platform > User utilizes those points to enter a tournament (fee to be determined by owners) > X teams enter (all paying the fee) > Winning team earns all points and receives a site compensation.

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Just now, Agent Shark said:

That sounds like a winner idea. The logic I had when thinking of points for this is:

 

User purchases points via the E-Commerce Platform > User utilizes those points to enter a tournament (fee to be determined by owners) > X teams enter (all paying the fee) > Winning team earns all points and receives a site compensation.

yeah that is easy enough to do, members shop already allows for points to be purchased etc so it will just be what I said basically with another setting for the sites % to take

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Just now, TheJackal84 said:

yeah that is easy enough to do, members shop already allows for points to be purchased etc so it will just be what I said basically with another setting for the sites % to take

I appreciate you considering it. I'm currently in my research phase for a project and this plugin is crucial to the project so once I can finalize a few things on my end, you bet I will be buying this product. Members Shop is already a great one and having it integrated with this makes my life easier.

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On 10/22/2018 at 1:50 PM, mrbowers said:

I'm sure more updates will be done to this app over time. 

Oh for sure, I wasn't intending to be rude or pushy. I was just giving a bunch of suggestions because I think the potential of this application is exciting.

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1 minute ago, colind525 said:

Oh for sure, I wasn't intending to be rude or pushy. I was just giving a bunch of suggestions because I think the potential of this application is exciting.

I didn't think that don't worry :biggrin:, It does say on the files description that if you have ideas to post here, There is only so much I can think of then I get other ideas from the people using it / wanting it, and if they are good and in my ability then they will get added to the app.

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On 10/22/2018 at 1:03 PM, colind525 said:

Hi! This application looks great and I'm interested in getting it as it is, but it doesn't quite fit what I would fully want, so I want to gauge interest from my fellow admins and from site users before purchase. 

I run a forum for competitive debate and I would like to be able to host online tournaments simply, but a simple single elimination bracket isn't quite sufficient. I have a few different suggestions and they're definitely not too debate-specific to be generally applicable to anyone who wants to host tournaments.

The way debate tournaments are typically structured involve a set of preliminary matches (usually 4-8) that are used to determine seeding and only a set number of teams move into single elimination matches (ex. the top half of prelim performers, only a set number of competitors, only people with winning records, etc.). Usually after each preliminary match or every 2, competitors are re-seeded and placed in appropriate skill brackets. So it's functionally a Swiss format with a single elimination bracket added on to it. Seeding usually happens by win record with the first tiebreaker being "speaker points" given by judges on quality of speaking, but there is a shift toward using "opponent wins" as the first tiebreaker, which cumulatively adds the wins of opponents in order to weigh the difficulty their preliminary matches. 

Other tournament structure options that would be interesting to add:

- Loser brackets: Allowing teams to compete after losing helps determine overall placing in a single elimination bracket.

- Double elimination: requiring 2 losses to be fully eliminated

- Round robin: everyone has a match against one another and then either the best record wins the tournament OR the best 2 teams have a finals match.

- Tournament series: setting up a series of qualifying tournaments that result in a championship tournament among the top performer

 

Other features that would be interesting to see: 

- Integration with commerce - Both for charging tournament entry fees and paying out tournament prizes (being a percentage of the entry fee total). I understand the desire to require people to purchase members shop for this kind of function, but that's not quite what I'm looking for and I think a lot of site owners would probably be willing to pay a higher price for this application with commerce integrated.

- Integration with calendar - Being able to schedule tournament events automatically. 

- Creation of "Leagues" - Allow users to create their own leagues who then administer tournaments to participating teams. Integrating with commerce could mean leagues require membership fees that the site can take commission off of and league owners can charge entry fees for their tournaments that the site can get commission off of as well. Kind of steps up user involvement and investment in participating while allowing site owners to step back from needing to be too heavily involved in constant moderation. Permissions on who can create leagues and requiring league approval would clearly be necessary. Maybe allow for non-league tournaments but attach different commission settings to them. 

- Since my site is about debate, adding an extra layer to teams would be useful. Schools operate as squads with multiple teams who compete individually in a tournament, BUT teams from the same school can't compete against one another. I think that this would also be attractive to users if there was the possibility of winning a prize as it ups their odds. That said, I think it would be ideal to have tournament settings involve allowing teams in the same squad to compete against one another or not. (I'm not sure if this is included when you say "Create unlimited categories and sub categories for members to create teams.")

- Show teams on user profiles. 

- Expand stats to also include history of tournament placing, not just W/L and ELO.

- Ability to set start times for rounds of matches to keep it on schedule as well as notifications for start times/notifications for when pairings are released

I do have some more debate-specific ideas I may ask to have done custom (if you're willing) after purchase and after some other things have been updated with this application.

I concur with Colin. My main requests would be:

  • Various tournament formats (double elim, round robin, etc)
  • Integration with Calendar
  • Creation of Leagues

 

And I'm sure it can be done without it, but possibly adding an option for whether a tournament will consist of teams, or if individual people could compete in a tournament (non-team sports/competitions).

 

 

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So we have ideas great but we need to support this project by buy his app. I only see few people wanting to buy it until later. I saw a lot of support days ago now only few buy the current app.  So let's get the word out a bit more and show support by buying this app. It only took him few days work to make this.. We wanted something like this for years now we have it. The dev is willing to do more upgrades to this app.... but unless more show support I really don't see this going anywere more. 

Edited by mrbowers

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Currently working on round robin tournaments

nkk9URS.png

it will more than likely have a league table with it and the ability to add points per win / draw etc and it will calculate them all to display in order of most points the league table can go in another tab

 

The team page has had a makeover too to make it more nicer to look at ( with a tab for the teams match history )

D7qOHgT.png

 

I am also thinking of changing the original tournament view to have tabs in

cv0U3q6.png

with the tabs it will be a lot easier and nicer on the eyes for more teams to be entered in tournaments we can have them split into tabs if there is say 8 - 16 rounds etc it can be 2 - 4 tabs of 4 rows etc

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Round robin rounds are coming along good, they can either be 1 or 2 match tournaments ( 2 matches is basically home & away, play each team twice, 1 match you play each team once ), you will award points for either a win / lose / draw and then it will add to a table for that tournament

S7ap9Q0.png

you can choose 4/6/8/10/12 team tournaments in the round robin ( at the minute ), but it will probably get limited at 20 teams as that will require 380 games to generate, if all goes the way it is now, update should be here quite quickly

Edited by TheJackal84

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