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Inactive Members & Real Last Activity Supporttopic

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We'd like to thank @Wayne B for an amazing idea, which resulted in a brand-new app.

This application and Application Forms are going to support a brand-new app, which is going to be shipped as free with application forms and inactive members (and it will also be released as separate app, but that shouldn't matter for all clients of application forms and inactive members )  .

This will allow people, to set up further rules, which will "remove the additional groups" which people got by the application or inactive members app ?

Huge KUDOS to @Wayne B ? ! 

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2 new options, what the inactive plugin could do:

1.

In addition to this idea "if rule = true THEN optin/optout from bulk email" ->

Quote

new "inactive member app option", a "bulk email opt-out" as an alternative to "member deletion/group demotion" could be a great gain for the app, to keep members in their active groups but simply cancel their opt-in.

2.

it might be useful to have an option to trigger an already implemented member group promotion/demotion rule for inactive members (as these "regular IPS rules" won't be triggered otherwise) ->

 

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I have several rules to send out email. inactive days 7,60,90,180,360,720

What i am seeing in the logs is that members that have been inactive as far back as 2014 or logged as inactive for 7 days so are they going to get all the emails from each rule. In my mind that user should get the 720 days email rather that the 7 days. My 7 day email says we missed you this week so its not really going to make sense to those that have been inactive for a long time. 

 

Just to update users have reported getting 6 emails now which suggests because they have been inactive for a long time they trigger all the rules and get all the emails. So it's seems my option is to only have one rule. Kind of defeats being able to have multiple rules. 

Edited by gavpedz

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Ok so i have had to revert to just one email rule now. The next issue is that the background process is tacking for ever to send emails to about 5000 members. I manualy run the process and it has been running now for about 4 hours with the percent in the acp dashboard just going up, currently at 11946023.75% 

 

Is there any support for this application?

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18 minutes ago, gavpedz said:

Ok so i have had to revert to just one email rule now. The next issue is that the background process is tacking for ever to send emails to about 5000 members. I manualy run the process and it has been running now for about 4 hours with the percent in the acp dashboard just going up, currently at 11946023.75% 

 

Is there any support for this application?

What rule/criteria are you using at the moment to send the email?

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25 minutes ago, Fosters said:

What rule/criteria are you using at the moment to send the email?

What i have had to do now is uninstall the application and start over. 

I now have just one rule which is set to inactive for 30 days. I have attached the settings of that rule. 

I have now run the task again and it seems to be running ok. 🤞

I also want to set rules for different inactivity periods but it seems when i do users get emails from all rules.

For example i also want a rule to send members that have been inactive for 3 years an email saying they might loose their account etc. The problem is that users will also get the 30 day inactivity email and it just leads to confusion and frustration for the users which is not what i am trying to acheive here. 

 

In an ideal world i would like to have an email sent to users who have been inactive for 7 days just as a little rimder that we havnt seen them for a week then a 30 day email to try and bring them back in then a 90 day email then a final email for the 3 year inactivity and possible account removal. But if i have members that have been inactive for 3 years they then trigger all these rules and get all these emails at once and it doesnt make sense. 

Inactive for 30 days.png

 

It seems to me you can only really have one email rule as longtime inactive users will trigger all rules and get all emails. If this is the case then please clarify this for me. 

If you can have only one email rule then would my 30 day rule run every 30 days a member is inactive? 

For example member SAM is 30 days inactive. They get the email and do nothing, so when they hit 60 days inactive will the rule trigger again or will they infact get an email every day as they are over the 30 days? Its just not clear how the rules work. 

Edited by gavpedz

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12 minutes ago, gavpedz said:

For example i also want a rule to send members that have been inactive for 3 years an email saying they might loose their account etc. The problem is that users will also get the 30 day inactivity email and it just leads to confusion and frustration for the users which is not what i am trying to acheive here. 

 

Yea, that's the problem;) Somebody who was inactive for 3 year, was also inactive for 30 days, so all rules would apply here and all emails would be sent out and I can't think of any solution how this could be changed.

I guess I could add some further logic here, where one would have to setup rules dependencies.. Something like:

Rule 1: 7 days

Rule2: 30 days

Rule4: 3 years.

 

Then you could configure rule 1  to ONLY be triggered if rule2 or rule 4 doesn't apply to this member.
Rule 2 should only be triggered if Rule 1 was run and rule 4 NOT.

 

Any better idea?:)

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Yeah something like that might help.

So If you can only really have one email rule then would my 30 day rule run every 30 days a member is inactive? 

For example member SAM is 30 days inactive. They get the email and do nothing, so when they hit 60 days inactive will the rule trigger again or will they infact get an email every day or even every 6 hours (as thats when the task runs) as they are over the 30 days already? Its just not clear how the rules work. 

Edited by gavpedz

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3 minutes ago, gavpedz said:

So If you can only really have one email rule then would my 30 day rule run every 30 days a member is inactive? 

No. If the rule is 30 days, they'll get an email if they weren't online for 30 or more days but not again after another 30 days timeframe.

Just to clarify how this application works:
Each rule initializes a background task which iterates over all members which haven't logged in for X days (based on the rule), then it checks if the email was sent already, if not, it sends the email and logs that the email was sent, so they'll never get the same email more then once.

 

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Hmm ok so this probably isnt really going to do what i wanted then. 

I kind of wanted to use this as an ongoing way to bring members back in. So send regular emails to inactive members every so many weeks or months to remind them about us and hopefuly encourage them to come back in. 

So really this will only be able to have one rule and send one email per user. Thats great but if that users is still inactive after 30 days i wanted to remind them again and possibly again after that. At which point it would be clear they definitaly would not be coming back and could then delete their account possibly. 

Edited by gavpedz

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Why couldn't you just set up 3 rules:

1. rule after 30 days: Hey, we miss you

2. rule after 60 days: Hey, not sure if you missed the first email which we sent you 30 days ago,.. get back to us.. If you don't get back in the next 30 days we'll delete your account.

3. rule after 90 days: account deletion.

 

And to avoid any issues, I would probably create rule 1 today, rule 2 in 29 days and rule 3 ( deletion ) in 90 days.

Edited by Fosters

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Because members that are inactive for 60 days or more get both emails and tell us to stop spamming them and then tell us to delete their account if thats the kind of frum we are. So it kind of has the oposit effect. I want to give them a nudge and hopefuly in a proactive way bring them back rather than annoy them and they want to leave anyway. Think i will just have to do it manualy via the bulk email feature in IPS

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Ah yes i can see if i set the rules up stagared as you said that might work. That gets me to thinking that the multiple rule email issue is really only an issue for those users that are currenlty on the forum and have not been active for years. 

Once we have cleaned out the inactive users then new users will go through the rule flow just fine because they wont be triggering all the rules at once?

Just as a side note, the unsubscribe from email link is not added to emails like the bulk emailer does. This is needed for GDPR

Edited by gavpedz

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The main problem of the app is: it is very useful for new communities without members or for communities with only 1 inactivity email rule, but not for existing communities with thousands of members (that registered over the past decades) and a lot of inactivity emails rules.

In a newly created community without members, you can set up a fresh set of inactivity email rules and they will be activated one after one as soon as the inactivity days of former members rise.

But for existing communities with hundreds of thousands of members - if I implement a set of f.e. 5 email rules there - they will receive like 2, 3, 4, 5.... emails at once and that's a no-go. I am not able to send a member, that hasn't been logged in for 100 days 3 emails at once: "Hey, we miss you for 100 days" AND "Hey, we miss you for 50 days" AND "Hey, we miss you for 10 days". I already wrote about this on page 1 in this topic.

Solution: The rules trigger mechanism should be implemented the same way as the "IPS member group promotion rules". There, only one (1!) rule is processed/triggered, the one with the highest criteria.

So if there is a 100 days rule AND a 50 days rule AND a 10 days rule, ONLY the 100 days rule is triggered.

Let us specify an order to each different rule (drag and drop and move the position of each rule).

Then your app starts checking them from top to down.

As soon as one rule (I order the rules with the highest criteria on the top) is processed, it will stop.

Yes, please implement a higher logic. Thanks.

Edited by Cyboman

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On 2/22/2018 at 3:35 PM, Fosters said:

Yes, we have a new update in the pipeline implementing the suggestion to move members back into a special group once they get back ( https://invisioncommunity.com/forums/topic/433489-inactive-members-real-last-activity-supporttopic/?do=findComment&comment=2727695 ) but we were really holding off any additional work for 4.3 to see what it's going to break and if it's requiring any additional bug fixing.

 

Any update on this @Fosters

Also, can I clarify exactly what you are classing as activity?  Is it logging in, posting, chatbox, reaction, status update?

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Inactive members log error

Error: Undefined constant 'IPS\HTMLENTITIES' (0)
#0 /home2/*****/public_html/system/Helpers/Table/Db.php(418): IPS\inactivemembers\modules\admin\members\_inactivememberslog->IPS\inactivemembers\modules\admin\members\{closure}(347, Array)
#1 /home2/*****/public_html/system/Helpers/Table/Table.php(484): IPS\Helpers\Table\_Db->getRows(Array)
#2 /home2/*****/public_html/applications/inactivemembers/modules/admin/members/inactivememberslog.php(70): IPS\Helpers\Table\_Table->__toString()
#3 /home2/*****/public_html/system/Dispatcher/Controller.php(96): IPS\inactivemembers\modules\admin\members\_inactivememberslog->manage()
#4 /home2/*****/public_html/applications/inactivemembers/modules/admin/members/inactivememberslog.php(38): IPS\Dispatcher\_Controller->execute()
#5 /home2/*****/public_html/system/Dispatcher/Dispatcher.php(152): IPS\inactivemembers\modules\admin\members\_inactivememberslog->execute()
#6 /home2/*****/public_html/admin/index.php(14): IPS\_Dispatcher->run()
#7 {main}

 

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9 hours ago, SerialNoob said:

Inactive members log error


Error: Undefined constant 'IPS\HTMLENTITIES' (0)
#0 /home2/*****/public_html/system/Helpers/Table/Db.php(418): IPS\inactivemembers\modules\admin\members\_inactivememberslog->IPS\inactivemembers\modules\admin\members\{closure}(347, Array)
#1 /home2/*****/public_html/system/Helpers/Table/Table.php(484): IPS\Helpers\Table\_Db->getRows(Array)
#2 /home2/*****/public_html/applications/inactivemembers/modules/admin/members/inactivememberslog.php(70): IPS\Helpers\Table\_Table->__toString()
#3 /home2/*****/public_html/system/Dispatcher/Controller.php(96): IPS\inactivemembers\modules\admin\members\_inactivememberslog->manage()
#4 /home2/*****/public_html/applications/inactivemembers/modules/admin/members/inactivememberslog.php(38): IPS\Dispatcher\_Controller->execute()
#5 /home2/*****/public_html/system/Dispatcher/Dispatcher.php(152): IPS\inactivemembers\modules\admin\members\_inactivememberslog->execute()
#6 /home2/*****/public_html/admin/index.php(14): IPS\_Dispatcher->run()
#7 {main}

 

Sorry for this. Fixed for the next release.

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On 3/17/2019 at 12:53 AM, SerialNoob said:

Inactive members log error


Error: Undefined constant 'IPS\HTMLENTITIES' (0)
#0 /home2/*****/public_html/system/Helpers/Table/Db.php(418): IPS\inactivemembers\modules\admin\members\_inactivememberslog->IPS\inactivemembers\modules\admin\members\{closure}(347, Array)
#1 /home2/*****/public_html/system/Helpers/Table/Table.php(484): IPS\Helpers\Table\_Db->getRows(Array)
#2 /home2/*****/public_html/applications/inactivemembers/modules/admin/members/inactivememberslog.php(70): IPS\Helpers\Table\_Table->__toString()
#3 /home2/*****/public_html/system/Dispatcher/Controller.php(96): IPS\inactivemembers\modules\admin\members\_inactivememberslog->manage()
#4 /home2/*****/public_html/applications/inactivemembers/modules/admin/members/inactivememberslog.php(38): IPS\Dispatcher\_Controller->execute()
#5 /home2/*****/public_html/system/Dispatcher/Dispatcher.php(152): IPS\inactivemembers\modules\admin\members\_inactivememberslog->execute()
#6 /home2/*****/public_html/admin/index.php(14): IPS\_Dispatcher->run()
#7 {main}

 

same problem for me

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