After every update I REALLY hate IPS

[tnn]

9 minutes ago, Admonstrator said:

No problem with a good working release cycle - but wordpress does not create so many issues in every update than IPS does.
In fact I never had an issue with wordpress in the core functionality since ... 6-7 years?

Exactly!
And IPS at one time did not have this mess. I have been with IPS since way back when and it was not like this. During that time frame Wordpress exploded in popularity. Just about everyone has a Wordpress blog mainly because of ease of use.

As I said, it doesn't matter which software (usage-wise) because they have to deal with the same customer concerns.

• Reliability
• Usability
• Maintainability

[Daddy]

1 hour ago, PoC2 said:

I've given up on the updates.

It feels like no sooner do I download one, than a new one appears.

So I've just stopped.

I used to upgrade religiously with every old release, now I just wait based on a time of year of my choosing and go with what's current at that point and no longer "next release".

It seems the only way to stay sane.

Majority of recent updates are handled directly through the acp. You login, click upgrade and done. I haven't experienced my first bug thus far but rest assured they fix more than they break

 

PS: Continue updating religiously as each update brings new performance optimization and security patches.

[TAMAN]

Just when i wanted to upgrade YAY more bugs 

[Lindy]

5 hours ago, pilotguy said:

While I seem to be fairly lucky in these bugs not affecting my site I've been where you two are before.  It's such a frustrating experience to get everything where you want it, just to see it broken again due to something that should have FIXED the problems, not made them worse.  I get worried when I see posts like this because I've invested (along with my community) money into a reliable system.  You see things like this and you think "God... here we go again, another platform change..."  

 

These types of topics can be disconcerting and even misleading. 

1. Some of what's claimed to be bugs are simply not liking the way something functions -- like the inability to delete gallery images because it's a global permission (which is being addressed.) Those are valid concerns and may even be high impact for your particular site, but are nonetheless not bugs and certainly no indication of product stability.

2. Some claim to experience *.bug, yet when you look at support history expecting pages of recent support requests, you find barely any. One of the posters here is claiming instability and an epic amount of bugs, but hasn't had a single ticket in 4 months and not a single bug report has been filed ever. So, either one is suffering in silence or is just jumping on the proverbial bandwagon. Regardless, I admittedly get a little edgy when someone attempts to shake customer confidence and is not providing the full picture. 

3. Those that experience issue after issue are very typically in a substandard hosting environment - you'll note time and again our cloud clients rarely have issues. Unfortunately, IPS4 has really highlighted imperfect and outdated hosting arrangements for various reasons. IPS4 is going to perform and function better under modern and proper environments with proper setups (innodb instead of myisam, etc.) It's not going to be stable or perform well on bargain basement servers using desktop processors instead of server processors, VPSs with overloaded parents, etc. It's a bit like installing Windows 7 on a Pentium III -- it will technically work, but it's likely going to be an overall poor experience for you. 

 

Now, while I completely disagree with the assessment that releases cause more issues than they fix, I don't want to imply there's been absolutely no concern here and we're perfect... we're certainly not. There have unfortunately been several embarrassingly poor releases and I'll definitely own that. We've very recently took strong notice on a higher management level and have been incorporating many, many changes internally to deliver rock solid releases. We've expanded our testing, both internally and externally. Everyone at IPS, from sales to support, are required to conduct a QA review of each release and sign off on the release board. Impacted areas are given even more attention. We have also brought back an internal QA team comprised of clients from the community that are willing to upgrade live sites with beta releases in exchange for one-on-one live support from our developers and technicians. We've also completely overhauled advanced support and development policies and procedures to improve interdepartmental communication and eliminate repeat issues falling through the cracks. Automated testing is also in the process of being incorporated. 

All of these things have already had a tremendous impact on stability just in the past 2 releases. We of course cannot rewrite history, but I am deeply sorry that we've not done these things sooner. I know it seems like we're forever asking for your patience, but I would again ask that you hang tight. Throughout the speed bumps and niggles along the IPS4 journey, there's one consistency: we're in a constant state of progress. We've recognized where we've gone right, where we've gone wrong and we're forging ahead a smarter, stronger company with a stronger product line. 

In regards to bugs vs features - this is also a concern we've recently had. Moving forward, virtually every release will have a balance of minor features and fixes. Major releases (i.e.: 4.2) will be a themed release. For example, the next major release will have an engagement theme. We'll focus, across the suite, on things that engage your users and keep them on the site -- such as better media handling, reputation enhancements, etc. So, you should not see many releases that are all bug fixes or just feature additions. This should keep the product stable while still keeping it fresh and progressing. 

Finally, if you are experiencing issues - it's imperative you let us know. Keeping things to yourself and letting them fester to later surface in a topic like this is not productive for anyone. If you have a concern, the best way to get it addressed is via the client area. I assure you - you're not bothering us and we want to hear from you before it reaches the level of topic frustration.

Thank you.

[Admonstrator]

Hi Lindy,
I've to answer you because I can not agree to all of your arguments. At first it might be correct that IPS will work better on a hositng environment with enough power, modern technology and enough performance. But ... you can not tell me that bugs like the calendar widget are bugs because my hosting isn't powerful enough. None of my reported issues are issues because of my hosting. Most of them are bugs because code wasn't correct or the interface was not correctly developed.

Of course it's not a "bug" if you can't delete images from your gallery - but it's a thing that should change asap. You can't say that it's not an issue because it's not the way the developt function has to work. It's like "I can't drive more than 30 mph while listening to the radio" - "Oh, you can't drive more than 30 mph in your car while listening to music? Don't worry, it's not the way the function has to work. Just stop listening to music and everything will work fine." It's just not the way how it should work.

5 hours ago, Lindy said:

All of these things have already had a tremendous impact on stability just in the past 2 releases

That one makes me sad. 4.1.8 and one day later 4.1.8.1 and still bugs. And we're not talking about bugs in special situations. For example the calendar widget - just use it and you will see that it's broken. I found this bug directly after upgrading my test instance. And that's my problem with the whole development process: My issue reports are not super special - they are just using normal functions. And why the heck are bugs from older releases back again?

Maybe you should add an additional status to the bug tracker like "planned for 4.1.x" ("i will fix") and "done in 4.1.x" (it's fixed right now!) - that would solve my problem that bug reports are claimed to be done but they are not. (Like the annoying chat-html-bug)

[Admonstrator]

And another thing: Why is there no changelog for new features?
I'm already unhappy that I have to search for changes and bugfixes trough the tracker - but I want to know if something changed. Like the GPS map thing within the gallery.

[kar3n2]

11 hours ago, Admonstrator said:

No problem with a good working release cycle - but wordpress does not create so many issues in every update than IPS does.
In fact I never had an issue with wordpress in the core functionality since ... 6-7 years?

I can't say I'm exactly finding tons of bugs as I don't know the difference between them and something not working properly. I do pay the annual fee for extra fast help and that is really good fast response so I'd recommend that any day 

I'm gonna invite people into the site and ask them to help by letting me know nicely if there is any snagging problems.   That will save me a lot of frustrations I'm sure of that now ... We do get by with a little help from our friends.  

12 hours ago, DesignzShop said:

It's just software? I think? You both literally cry? I may be able to understand some frustration, maybe even beating your head on a desk for a few times,  but crying? I really hope you wouldn't be that frustrated.

 

Kind Regards

The crying is caused from bashing head against a brick wall sometimes. Lol 

[Marc Stridgen]

1 hour ago, Admonstrator said:

Hi Lindy,
I've to answer you because I can not agree to all of your arguments. At first it might be correct that IPS will work better on a hositng environment with enough power, modern technology and enough performance. But ... you can not tell me that bugs like the calendar widget are bugs because my hosting isn't powerful enough. None of my reported issues are issues because of my hosting. Most of them are bugs because code wasn't correct or the interface was not correctly developed.

Of course it's not a "bug" if you can't delete images from your gallery - but it's a thing that should change asap. You can't say that it's not an issue because it's not the way the developt function has to work. It's like "I can't drive more than 30 mph while listening to the radio" - "Oh, you can't drive more than 30 mph in your car while listening to music? Don't worry, it's not the way the function has to work. Just stop listening to music and everything will work fine." It's just not the way how it should work.

That one makes me sad. 4.1.8 and one day later 4.1.8.1 and still bugs. And we're not talking about bugs in special situations. For example the calendar widget - just use it and you will see that it's broken. I found this bug directly after upgrading my test instance. And that's my problem with the whole development process: My issue reports are not super special - they are just using normal functions. And why the heck are bugs from older releases back again?

Maybe you should add an additional status to the bug tracker like "planned for 4.1.x" ("i will fix") and "done in 4.1.x" (it's fixed right now!) - that would solve my problem that bug reports are claimed to be done but they are not. (Like the annoying chat-html-bug)

Please could you provide me with the ticket numbers you have open for the problems you are experiencing with your site? You are clearly experiencing some issues here, and we want to resolve concerns, so if you have tickets open that need addressing please let us know the numbers and we can get them addressed.

[Hexsplosions]

In the four years of using IPS I don't think I've encountered a show-stopping bug more than once. It's not just the software at play here, it's the very foundations on which you run your website. I have been through some atrocious hosts, struggled with upgrades, etc., and alleviated the issues by moving. What looked like a serious bug on one host, did not manifest itself on another. I've recently moved to a self-managed VPS. I have yet to encounter any issues because I can tailor the VPS to my needs. I know exactly what's running, and the IPS Suite purrs like a kitten on it.

I don't think IPS lacks testing. From my knowledge, the releases go through significant live testing prior to being released to the masses, both here on the IPS forums and elsewhere. If you're really risk averse you could hold on updates unless they contain a security fix, but I really would not recommend procrastinating on installing the updates that contain security fixes. That's just downright irresponsible.

Overall I think the IPS team do a sterling job. I don't always agree with their decisions, nor do I stay silent when I disagree, but I understand them, I know the difference between a bug and a feature that seems counter-intuitive, and I raise tickets when something show-stopping happens. IPS support have never failed me yet. I will accept minor bugs because, well, that's software development.

[Admonstrator]

@Marc S

940904 (was 937821 before)
Gallery - Image description & upload fails
Claimed to be fixed in 4.1.8 - but nope.

939587
Attachment upload in a existing album description does not work due to CSRF
Internal bug report - ETA unknown.

932334
"Post a new status update" widget not correctly working
Was fixed in november 2015, now it's back again.
Seems to be an issue with advanced status updates. Will check this back with the dev.

NoTicketNumber
Chat HTML issues
Claimed to be fixed in 4.1.8 - but nope.

NoTicketNumber
Upcomig Event widget bug
Worked fine in 4.1.7, in 4.1.8.x it's broken and should be fixed in 4.1.9 ...

As I already mentioned: It's ok if there are some bugs. The reason why I am such unhappy is because some of my issues should be fixed in 4.1.8 and they are not. And old features are broken now. And maybe there should be an option to reopen already closed tickets - would be more comfortable.

[DesignzShop]

4 hours ago, kar3n2 said:

 

The crying is caused from bashing head against a brick wall sometimes. Lol 

I can understand that then Besides that, your avatar looks like the woman who played Tim Allen's wife on Home Improvement. We wouldn't want to see you mess up that Hollywood profile  

Seriously here though, When 4 series was released there was some issues without doubt. We've seen most of those hurdles have been jumped.. I think everyone at this point needs to take a step back and realize this. I'm not defending IPB here however I've seen the product stabilize and bring us to a point where the software is good all the way around as a end-user and and for me a developer.

I also can't say I myself have not been frustrated at times, the difference here is I usually take the frustration to the pm system and Lindy I'd personally like to see that happen a little more in regards to issues that make people get a little sideways. The community needs to get everyone on the same page, the 4.1 and soon to be 4.2 page is what I'm referring too here. More clients on 4.1 means more opportunity for the entire community. More developers and 3rd party applications & plugins will come forward, more community participation here at the forum and more. Certain ways topics are titled are deterrents really for 3.4 users to move forward. I agree issues need to be brought to the forefront, it's just how they are getting there that kinda bothers me as it's effecting progress to get everyone on the same page and let us move forward to the point 3.4 was at.

Don't forget also Lindy is a GM guy, he can take the heat when customers have an issue or in the GM world, multiple issues

You can also I think get a hold of Charles. He's been on some hiatus as of late and appears to need some action

 

[The Old Man]

I like Lindy's response. Don't get me wrong, I too groan as much as the next man/woman whenever there are another raft of issues and fixes announced in the knowledge base, especially just after a release. I can't just believe how many bugs there have been since IPS4 went gold, and how many continue to be reported, sure not all are bugs but some drag on for months without being resolved. Its interesting to read IPS think there have been some poor releases but that reassures me that they are are, take notice and are doing something about it.

I bought a license for another website and I can't use it yet because the easy theme editor still won't let me make a dark theme without large areas of bright white in it. Why, oh, why doesn't it come with a dark theme out of the box, so we can tweak it a bit and get it up and running in hours, not months?!

I am grateful when a fix is published but get annoyed when its not clear if the fix is included in the next update or not. I get annoyed when support tell me in an overnight response to essentially fix things myself whilst pointing me in the right direction, when I've paid for tech support to take the pressure off and have things fixed by tech support, so that I'm not rushing bleary eyed to fix them myself before I get up and go out to work in the morning for another mentally demanding 10-14hr day, because I don't have the energy to do it when I get home!

But I would rather see IPS as a company that isn't afraid to say its not always right, and sometimes gets things wrong, that there is sometimes more that can be done, rather than just browbeating its users adamant that everything is their fault or with technobabble.

IPS4 may have shown up poor hosting environments, but some of us can't afford VPS and Dedicated Servers. I use Inmotion Hosting who apparently have up to date servers and use SSDs for their shared hosting. I bought a Pro account to host several sites, so far I have 3 IPS installations on my shared Business Pro hosting account and although 2 are pretty much dead communities and the other is a very quiet community with about 10 new topics/10 members on per day, the resource level of IPS4 has been using is really high, over 100% everyday since I upgraded to it, sometimes its been over 300% which gets me into trouble with the web host. It now peaks around 120-150% of available CPU resources. Inmotion assure me its not oversold and they are using modern servers. I cannot host any more websites and IPS installations on it though.

So as fed up as I am with never ending bugs and issues, I still look out for the welcome news of some new features and improvements.

Keep hacking away at it IPS, and thanks for bringing back more QA, as I'm sure I recall IPB improved a lot when you introduced QA testers.

I still laugh when I see sites like DigitalSpy using vBulletin, are they mad when IPS is available?

I really didn't like the way the Global RSS feed was removed without any warning, that's taken me a long time to resolve, so that I can once again power my Twitter feed with new content. Love the emoticon manager though, although it needs a few tweaks for perfection!

[kar3n2]

Thought provoking good stuff in this topic .  Very good 

[stoo2000]

4 hours ago, The Old Man said:

Why, oh, why doesn't it come with a dark theme out of the box, so we can tweak it a bit and get it up and running in hours, not months?!

You may be pleased to see this: https://community.invisionpower.com/files/file/7938-ips4-dark-theme/

[IveLeft...]

Well my two penneth

I upgraded 3.4.7 to 3.4.9 and then went straight to 4.1.7 

I had quite a few issues with the upgrade on a test site - IPS sorted all these out through the ticket system

I then upgraded the live site (one of 3) and have since gone to 4.1.8.1

I had a few issues with some things and low and behold these were either a server problem or a plugin issue - not an IPS issue

Any ticket i have opened they have been very helpful and its always been resolved

One site has a good few thousand members and quite a few online at any one time, a lot are older members and I did have quite a few worries about them not accepting it and some bugginess in the builds, touch wood I have had no complaints, they have embraced it and love the new system compared to the old 3.4.x

With software nothing is ever 100% bullet proof - look at windo$e and the plethora of bugs in 10.....

So just embrace 4.1.8.1 upwards and help IPS iron out the small bugs and open a ticket if you do have an issue, its going from strength to strength 

@kar3n2 Just open your site and let members join and move with IPS 

[The Old Man]

10 hours ago, stoo2000 said:

You may be pleased to see this: https://community.invisionpower.com/files/file/7938-ips4-dark-theme/

Woohoo! Thank you Stoo and Rikki!

[Captain Ginns]

I work on the biggest Navy Student Tracking software.  For years this same type of issue occurred.  In 2012, a new Director came in and she forced everyone to test, test, and test.  We even built a new test site.  I know IPS has a test site they use...I hope.  But from I gather in this conversation is that more testing is needed. If you go back to the Affordable Care Act web site a couple of years ago, what happened there was there was no full integration testing.

 

Anyway, I only say this because I have a test site right now for my IPS 4.x version.  I will not move to IPS 4.x until I am sure that everything works.  My projected move is now for this Spring.  IPS: maybe increase the number of testers: ask for more volunteers.  I always ask my Pilots to go into the test site and try to break it.  Anyway, that's my two cents.  I know IPS is doing a great job because my site hasn't crashed in years.

[Marc Stridgen]

On 2/6/2016 at 1:06 PM, Admonstrator said:

@Marc S

940904 (was 937821 before)
Gallery - Image description & upload fails
Claimed to be fixed in 4.1.8 - but nope.

939587
Attachment upload in a existing album description does not work due to CSRF
Internal bug report - ETA unknown.

932334
"Post a new status update" widget not correctly working
Was fixed in november 2015, now it's back again.
Seems to be an issue with advanced status updates. Will check this back with the dev.

NoTicketNumber
Chat HTML issues
Claimed to be fixed in 4.1.8 - but nope.

NoTicketNumber
Upcomig Event widget bug
Worked fine in 4.1.7, in 4.1.8.x it's broken and should be fixed in 4.1.9 ...

As I already mentioned: It's ok if there are some bugs. The reason why I am such unhappy is because some of my issues should be fixed in 4.1.8 and they are not. And old features are broken now. And maybe there should be an option to reopen already closed tickets - would be more comfortable.

Having just taken a look at these for you in appears that the 2 tickets you do have open are awaiting your response since you posted them last week. The other items I would highly advise you post up tickets on. Bug reports are worked through in between tickets, as these are priority in supporting live clients. If you have an issue which is affecting your live community, you should always submit a ticket for this to be looked at.