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I want my credit back - disagree automatic renewal


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After IPS declared "legacy" customers are not welcome with their legacy license (Perpetual) and after i agreed the 100$ deal, now my license was automatically renewed on 21. September (expires on 29. September) without any notification that the license will renewed before it expires. This is an unwanted action, but IPS wont back my credit.

 

Answers:

 
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Hello, we are not able to do this as you have downloaded the software after the renewal went though, if you would like to cancel the license you can do so from the client area.
 

I:

 
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my old renewal time was 29th september 2015, so i downloaded this on the old time. Please undo this.
 

Answer:

 
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Hello, you downloaded this yesterday!
 

I:

 
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Hello,

 

again. My License was renewed on 29. March 29.03.2015 04:54:51 GMT +2 and i get 6 months updates until 29. September 2015 (old expiry date). The automatically unwanted new renewal was on 22.09.2015 05:00:05 +GMT 2 with the new expiry date

29. March 2016

 

(6 months extend). So i download that on the

old

date. If it would wrong, then the expiry date would be the 21. March 2016.

 

again, please undo this action. I never want to renew my IP.Board License.

 

Answer from IPSLindy:

 
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Hello, As this was an account credit, we are not going to reverse it. We can, however, prevent further renewals if you would like?

I:

 
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i never agreed the automatically renewal and i didn't get a message before the renewal was done. Again: I want redo this change. I'm long-time customer and look forward to come towards.
 

Answer:

 
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Hello, renewals are automatic unless you cancel the license prior to re-activation, please let us know if you have any questions. We are not able to reverse this in this case as mentioned though.
 

I:

 
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Hello, as I said i never set the auto renewal and i don't want it yet and in the future. I feel cheated as a customer for many years. First the action of Lifetime license and then now this.

 

When i cancel this, i get this:

 

 

"This will

immediately

 

cancel access to download your software, access technical support and use IPS Extras. You will not be sent any further renewal invoices."

 

But i want to access to the software until the old expiry date (which is 29. September)."

 

Click to expand...
 

Answer:

 
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Hello, there is no way to do this I'm afraid, you will need to wait until the 29th to cancel if so. I'm also sorry you feel cheated, that is not our intention at all.
 

I:

 
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you will need to wait until the 29th to cancel if so."

 

The problem is, i couldn't do that on this date, because the license was automatically renewed before the license was expired. Why i didn't get a message that license will automatically x days renewd before it expires?

 

 

If it is not your intention, then I want to be asked in the future, if i want the renew.

 

 

I could cancel the license on 29 September, but then I want to the credit back.

 

Answer:



We are not able to credit this back as Lindy mentioned though.
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Hello, invoices are generated a week prior to the expiration date, so if you want to cancel, at a later date, and before it auto renews, do this about 10 days prior.
 

I:

 
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this is a absolutely customer-unfriendly policy. That means, i can never get updates until the real expiration date.

 

I want to have a satisfactory solution here.

 

Answer:


 
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Hello, you can remove the card on file, don't manually pay the invoice when generated, and then it would expired on the actual expiration date.
 
Hello, I hit reply too soon, sorry for that, if you have an account credit however, there is no way around this other than to cancel before the invoice is generated.

I:

 

Quote

Hello,

I want a customer-friendly police, not a police like "how can grab money from him and damage him.". This is deceit, what are you doing. But this is apparently your intention.
It can not be that I can not use the complete renewal period what I paid for without the automatic extension, what i never agreed that.

 

Answer:

 

Quote

 

Hello, I'm sorry for your frustration here, I'm not sure what else to tell you at this point, we have clarified how the system works currently, there isn't anything we can do at this time to change this, we do consider all feedback in our future changes though.

 

Thank you

 

When it comes their rights, then heir defend this vigorously. (for example: the old IP.Board licenses). But on consumer rights, then IPS denies these rights ...

I want my credit fee back, since Im never agreed and paid an renewal.

 

 

Edited by legacy_customer
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According to the Billing Information page via the Client Area, automatic renewal fees only happen if you have fill out the card details part. If a card is not on file, you'll receive an invoice when renewal fees are due.

At least I hope this is correct because I would like to renew my license and support when I choose to do it not them taking the fees automatically every six months.

I have the card details part of the Billing Information page not filled in and so I hope this means there will be no automatic renewal fees charged to the card I used when first purchasing the license.

Edited by Jamie Clark
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13 minutes ago, Jamie Clark said:

According to the Billing Information page via the Client Area, automatic renewal fees only happen if you have fill out the card details part. If a card is not on file, you'll receive an invoice when renewal fees are due.

At least I hope this is correct because I would like to renew my license and support when I choose to do it not them taking the fees automatically every six months.

I have the card details part of the Billing Information page not filled in and so I hope this means there will be no automatic renewal fees charged to the card I used when first purchasing the license.

@Jamie Clark auto renewal happens if have credit or credit card on file !

The next point for @legacy_customer is i always have email 5 days maybe little more before any my license come to being renewed and fact claim never agreed to auto renewal ! i do believe made clear that 6 months you need renew IF like next version ! so can't see the fuss i bet you been in client area before due date so would know was due !  

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5 minutes ago, Pete T said:

@Jamie Clark auto renewal happens if have credit or credit card on file !

The next point for @legacy_customer is i always have email 5 days maybe little more before any my license come to being renewed and fact claim never agreed to auto renewal ! i do believe made clear that 6 months you need renew IF like next version ! so can't see the fuss i bet you been in client area before due date so would know was due !

Does the card you used when first purchasing the license automatically get put on file?

Edited by Jamie Clark
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It does this automatically when you have account credit or a credit card(Which is a luxury product here) attached as I wish to strictly control my cashflow :) 

I agree that IPS should reverse this automated action when requested by the costumer(Is simply a better method to retain costumers in the long term and is a minor effort :p ).

Edited by iozay
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i had a similar problem some weeks ago, finally they ended my active status a day before it have to be

better would be on cancel the service the anyway last accessible version (we in that case already pay for!) would be simple available for download, so it won't be required to wait until the last day to cancel

it is also a problem if you renew a part of the Suite in a running period, you renew technically for "6 Month" but if your Suite next renewal is already in a Month so you pay the same and have to pay again the full amount next Suite-payday

 

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I was not aware the $100 'offer' was still in effect. As a sidenote is it a good deal for those who want to 'transfer' to a current licence from a legacy one and gain access to the new versions. Its not always available to all legacy holders afaik.

Regarding renews, its easier to just not have any card details on file to stop this if that is what is required.

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I never get any notification of this.

This is the only message what i get:

Quote

An invoice has been generated for you and has been marked paid automatically because the amount to pay is zero.

This message is for your information only - no further action is required.

and the invoice:

ips_rechnung11.thumb.png.834005f168ec681

 

It's just brazenly and impudently from IPS. They only ripe off long-time customers. I want my credit back and as compensation I want to have my account credit to PayPalI never made or agrred a subscription to renewals.

Edited by legacy_customer
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15 minutes ago, legacy_customer said:

 I never made or agreed a subscription to renewals.

Yes, you did.

https://www.invisionpower.com/clients/index.php?app=nexus&module=clients&section=payouts

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Your account credit will automatically be used for any future renewal invoices or can be used for new purchases.

By accepting the account credit you agreed to it being potentially automatically used for renewals. That message has always been there, it's nothing new. The fact renewals are a recurring subscription is not something that has changed, there has been no other option for several years, at least as long as I have been around. The only difference here is you had account credit on file, thus it was automatically paid, instead of generating an invoice and waiting for you to pay through paypal or whatever.

Edited by Marcher Technologies
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2 hours ago, Marcher Technologies said:

Yes, you did.

https://www.invisionpower.com/clients/index.php?app=nexus&module=clients&section=payouts

By accepting the account credit you agreed for it to be used for renewals. That message has always been there, it's nothing new.

No i didn't accept this. Because I was not noted in the ticket system, where communication mainly took place.

The more insolence is when I cancel the license, I get no access to downloads (for the six months what i paid) and no credit back.

The normal way is: I cancel a subscription and i have access to downloads until the real expiration date.

Edited by legacy_customer
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I am at a loss then. The very functionality you are screaming and ranting over is vastly appreciated by many of us. We can add credit and not worry over our license lapsing and getting spammed within an inch of our lives for a couple of years or more.

Edited by Marcher Technologies
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To be honest, i also receive the renewal-notification after they take the money. I am fine with it, because i want to keep my licenses up2date... But i also thought: "Would be nice they notified me about this  few days before" .....

I know, the date is available in the clientarea and i could remove my CC there... But it should not be a problem to send out a eMail .... 

That said - i am fine (just my 2 cents) :) 

Edited by TheSonic
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  • Management

I'm sorry for your frustration.

- We can certainly evaluate something to remind of automatic renewal. We actually had this for quite some time and it generated complaints and confusion -- even though the e-mail was clear that the invoice would be auto-paid, clients would login and manually pay, often resulting in a double-charge. I think most want to set and forget, but we can work on improving this so it's clear services will be auto-renewed. 

- Deactivating immediately for Forums licenses is a bug in the system. This is fixed in Commerce which we were converting to in November. I'll check the feasibility of applying a fix now. It's not been an issue as nearly everyone either wants to renew or simply lets the license expire. Yours is a unique situation. 

With the above said, I have to admit to being a bit baffled at the notion of complaining about free money. You were not forced to upgrade your license from legacy status / accept the offer and you were given $100 account credit as a loyalty credit for converting. At this juncture, I feel it best to restore things to the way they were, so I have restored your legacy license as it were and reverted the credit as I'm certainly not going to entertain "as compensation I want to have my account credit to PayPal."

 

To others, I do want to make it clear that invoices are only paid automatically if there is an account credit or a credit card on file. Beyond those circumstances, we don't have the ability to process automatic payments as do not retain credit card data unless you specifically ask us to. I'm sorry for any confusion. 

 

 

 

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  • Management

As a follow-up, the issue with canceling renewals immediately canceling the license itself should be resolved shortly. 

In looking further, the system is actually supposed to send out an e-mail 30 days prior to expiration - even if you are on auto-renew. This doesn't appear to be working in all instances, so we'll investigate that further. 

Of interest, we are migrating our client systems to IPS4 in November. It has not been done as of yet because our license system, chat management, monitoring, spam mitigation management and half a dozen other things are all plugins to our Nexus / soon-to-be-Commerce implementation. That update will provide for a much smoother client experience - in the interim, thanks for your patience. :)

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12 hours ago, Lindy said:

With the above said, I have to admit to being a bit baffled at the notion of complaining about free money. You were not forced to upgrade your license from legacy status / accept the offer and you were given $100 account credit as a loyalty credit for converting.

the problem effects also "hard-earned" money from Referrals-Programm ;)

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Quote

With the above said, I have to admit to being a bit baffled at the notion of complaining about free money. You were not forced to upgrade your license from legacy status / accept the offer and you were given $100 account credit as a loyalty credit for converting. At this juncture, I feel it best to restore things to the way they were, so I have restored your legacy license as it were and reverted the credit as I'm certainly not going to entertain "as compensation I want to have my account credit to PayPal."

 

Oh, now you make one of kindergarten like If you do not accept this, then I stole your whole account credit because your are the king and the customers are your subjects. You gived me the credit as a gift for convert and you have not the right to delete my gift without my agreement.

I see, you've got something against me personally, otherwise you would not make such actions.

I citiate your mail in January of the account credit use:

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There is, however, no expiration and you may use it how and when you’d like

 

Quote

- We can certainly evaluate something to remind of automatic renewal. We actually had this for quite some time and it generated complaints and confusion -- even though the e-mail was clear that the invoice would be auto-paid, clients would login and manually pay, often resulting in a double-charge. I think most want to set and forget, but we can work on improving this so it's clear services will be auto-renewed. 

- Deactivating immediately for Forums licenses is a bug in the system. This is fixed in Commerce which we were converting to in November. I'll check the feasibility of applying a fix now. It's not been an issue as nearly everyone either wants to renew or simply lets the license expire. Yours is a unique situation.

Tell me, why you say this, after i create a topic here. No one tell me in the ticket system that is a bug in system.

Edited by legacy_customer
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  • Management

I'd really prefer to handle these things one-on-one, but since you're intent on making this a public issue, I guess there's no choice but to address this in kind. Last year you contacted us regarding IPS4 - the offer of upgrading and $100 credit was extended. That was deemed insufficient - you threatened an attorney, indicated you wanted to be paid by cash via PayPal, indicated there was a "breach of contract" and went on a general tirade. The offer was still extended to you, against our better judgment. You finally and begrudgingly accepted it in March. You've been pushing for money via PayPal long before you auto-renewed via the account credit. You purchased the license almost 10 years ago - you were given a courtesy credit to upgrade in an amount that exceeds half of your initial purchase a decade ago and then you demanded that you be "cashed out." 

I think most here can attest to the fact that I'm a relatively fair and easy going person and when we're in the wrong, I'm among the first to own it; I've acknowledged the shortcomings with our internal systems. Conversely, I don't subscribe to the squeaky wheel theory and I have a low threshold for threats and people who are generally difficult to deal with. I'm not going to be bashful in saying that while under normal circumstances, we could have worked around your grievances, I think your expectations are on the unreasonable side and in light of your confrontational and even threatening prior interactions with us, we're not overly interested in continuing further with you. That is why I restored your account to exactly how it was before you alluded to legal action, demands for PayPal payment, etc. The credit and upgrade offer were extended as a courtesy to our loyal early adopters who want to continue moving forward with us under the 2006+ license structure. I'd estimate 99% of legacy clients, even those slightly disappointed, ultimately recognized the value in their purchase and the service we've worked so hard to deliver all of these years and were relatively happy to move on to the next chapter with us, especially with an IPS4 license and essentially 2 years of renewals free. You happen to be one of the handful that brought threats of attorneys, legal action and were armed with combative attitudes... frankly, I think it's best that you remain a legacy client.

You're welcome to e-mail or PM me with any further concerns, but I think we're done here and have let the topic run its course. 

 

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