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Revenue Idea in IPS4


Bluto

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I had an idea wanted to throw it out there, maybe it's been mentioned before???

I'm sure there are a lot of forum owners out there who would love to make more money.  I find that when it comes to how I personally define a successful forum, it tends to be one of two things:

  1. More Revenue
  2. Larger more active forum (signups / posts / etc)

If I'm achieving one of the two above, I consider my forum a success.

I visit and evaluate many forums / blogs online trying to determine what has made the particular forum popular or profitable.  One trend I'm noticing in blogs is the ability to TIP the content creator.

Currently, most members post on forums for free.  The members who don't post for free are either hired posters, paid staff, or owner members.  A majority of people post on a forum because they want to have an active discussion about something they're interested in... and they do this for free.  Doing something for free means the member can come and go as they choose.  We, as forum admins, want them to stay and post, keeping our forums active by providing fresh new content.  How can these free posting members be more motivated to post more and stay longer:  TIPPING.

A TIPPING feature could be created as a mod for IPS4.  But I think it should be integrated into the suite because it could be a very powerful tool for forum owners and be unique to IPS4. In my opinion, features also often work the best when they're supported by the core development team.

I also just searched the downloads section and it doesn't appear to be any TIPPING mods for the current 3.4 version of IPB.

How would TIPPING work?

1.  Ability for a member to input several ways to receive a TIP.  Paypal account or Changetip: https://www.changetip.com/ (I'm sure there are others out there).

2.  When the member starts a thread, there is a button / link to click on to allow a member to TIP the member for his thread.  It would be essential for a visitor / guest to be able to TIP.  Requiring someone to become a member of the forum would deter TIPPING from general visitors.

Best Use Cases:

Articles

Getting people to post new articles on a forum is hard if they're not getting paid to write the article.  A tipping system doesn't replace being paid, but does motivate a writer to write more when he knows that he'll probably get some tips from members.

Crowdfunding

Sure, there are plenty of sites out there to crowdfund your newest hottest project, but what if that project was smaller.  Having TIPPING would allow a member to start a thread and get funds through the TIPS system.  So, if a member was going to create something on the forum (a research list or something) they could start a thread requesting TIPS for the project.

Tracking / Honor

People in general are competitive.  Having information in the members profile about how many TIPS they got would increase the desire to get more TIPS and increase the reputation of the member.  Having a page which lists the top TIPPERS would also show who TIPS the most.

General Posting

Who wouldn't want to receive a TIP for making a great post?  Liking a post is great, but getting cash is even better.  How motivated are members going to be if they get money for great posts?  Would you return to a forum which you made money from when you made a great post?  I'm sure your answer would be "yes".

Downloads / Gallery

Just like creating a thread or post, getting TIPS for adding content to Downloads or Gallery would be rewarded though the TIPPING system.

  • Great photos of the Ocean:  Get a TIP.
  • Upload a new CSS file which is very useful:  Get a TIP.

 

In my opinion, TIPPING shouldn't be overlooked or treated as a "mod" option.  TIPS are very successful in several industries.  Incorporating TIPPING into the core would allow IPB4 to stand out from the competition and provide forum owners a valuable resource to earn more revenue and increase the overall activity on a particular clients forum.

The KEY with TIPPING is "small amounts add up".  If 100 people TIP $1... that's $100.  People's loose change could be the difference between a dead forum and a successful forum.

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The KEY with TIPPING is "small amounts add up".  If 100 people TIP $1... that's $100.  

That idea isn’t new. Services like Kachingle and Flattr try to establish it for years. You can easily add it to almost any site and the process for the users is also pretty straightforward. I implemented Flattr on my site for some time. Users could enter their Flattr ID as custom profile field and then a button would appear under their (blog) posts to reward the user for good posts. 

But it doesn’t work. It’s easy to get people to WANT money from others, but very hard to get people to PAY others. And even if you do, you end up with a rather small circle of users which reward mostly each other – so one pays 5 Dollars a month and earns 7, the next pays 10 dollars and earns 4. That’s not worthwhile. The money just goes around in circles and the lucky winner is PayPal or whatever services are involved and get the transaction fees. 

So, no, I don’t believe in that idea at the moment. An IPS-only solution actually sounds less convincing than such general services like Kachingle and Flattr which work on any site. If you really have users which create such content worth 100 Dollars, then you can actually pay them as admin and get the money through advertising and membership fees. You don’t need to set up such a social micro-payment system, where money goes just around in circles. Because that’s what’s going to happen. It’s rather unlikely that you will have that one great user who ears 100 Dollars and 100 users are willing to pay 1 Dollar each and don’t want money from anyone else. 

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That idea isn’t new. Services like Kachingle and Flattr try to establish it for years. You can easily add it to almost any site and the process for the users is also pretty straightforward. I implemented Flattr on my site for some time. Users could enter their Flattr ID as custom profile field and then a button would appear under their (blog) posts to reward the user for good posts. 

But it doesn’t work. It’s easy to get people to WANT money from others, but very hard to get people to PAY others. And even if you do, you end up with a rather small circle of users which reward mostly each other – so one pays 5 Dollars a month and earns 7, the next pays 10 dollars and earns 4. That’s not worthwhile. The money just goes around in circles and the lucky winner is PayPal or whatever services are involved and get the transaction fees. 

So, no, I don’t believe in that idea at the moment. An IPS-only solution actually sounds less convincing than such general services like Kachingle and Flattr which work on any site. If you really have users which create such content worth 100 Dollar, then you can actually pay them as admin and get the money through advertising and membership fees. You don’t need to set up such a social micro-payment system, where money goes just around in circles. Because that’s what’s going to happen. It’s rather unlikely that you will have that one great user who ears 100 Dollars and 100 users are willing to pay 1 Dollar each and don’t want money from anyone else. 

​I know several blogs which are using this with great success.  So, what's not working on your particular site doesn't mean it won't work on someone else's site.

The quote about 100 Dollars was just an example of how micro payments add up... nothing more.  I'm not saying someone is going to make $100 from a post.

Also, you need to factor in cryptocurrencies which is becoming hot for tipping.  I've seen time and time again people tipping Bitcoin when they wouldn't tip Dollars.

In the end, I would still love to see this feature:  What isn't popular now doesn't mean it won't be popular in the future.  I see tipping as the future, you're looking at the past.

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Maybe just maybe something like Reddit gold where other members can "gift" each other the "premium membership" of the forum would be worthwhile. Just giving money out I am with @opentype. Giving money to each other there is no real incentive, yes I am may like something somebody has posted but for content I would never "pay" someone from a user to user prospective. Doing the Reddit Gold perspective, you are contributing to the site you love AND giving something to the member so there is more of an incentive there. Do I think this should be an innate functionality of IPS? No. Maybe a 3rd party mod would suffice.

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A TIPPING feature could be created as a mod for IPS4.  But I think it should be integrated into the suite because it could be a very powerful tool for forum owners and be unique to IPS4. In my opinion, features also often work the best when they're supported by the core development team.

I also just searched the downloads section and it doesn't appear to be any TIPPING mods for the current 3.4 version of IPB.

 

 

​This is a great idea. I wish there was a mod built for 3.4. Isn't an attempted mod for this icredits http://community.invisionpower.com/files/file/7006-icredits/  ?

What I am wondering is how can the site owner capitalize on tipping ?  Under your idea would a owner be entitled to a small servicing fee for every tip given ?  Any idea how that would mechanically work ?

 

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I actually have that already implemented (in my own system), sadly I do not own IP.Nexus...

Might get it when IPS 4 is released though and then make a plugin for it :)

​Once the next beta comes out I'm going to start working on a plugin.  I highly doubt that IPS will add a feature like this, even though TIPPING is getting huge on social media sites.  A couple people I know who write for blogs have made a nice amount of Bitcoin in TIPS.

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​*rolling eyes*

​It's true.  You're not looking at the future of money which is fueling tipping - digital currencies.

You're entitled to your opinion.  If I create a plugin maybe you can give it another go on your site - with the addition of digital currencies and not just fiat currencies.  

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​It's true.  You're not looking at the future of money which is fueling tipping - digital currencies.

You're entitled to your opinion.  If I create a plugin maybe you can give it another go on your site - with the addition of digital currencies and not just fiat currencies.  

​When you say "digital currencies" you mean BitCoin and the etc...? Yeah, that's not going to work in some populations. I'd say about 10% of my member actually know what BitCoin is and less than that actually use it :laugh: 

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I can barely get members to hit like to appreciate good posts other members make. Convincing them to start tipping with no benefit or return incentive will be quite a challenge. I do like the outside the box thinking though.

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​When you say "digital currencies" you mean BitCoin and the etc...? Yeah, that's not going to work in some populations. I'd say about 10% of my member actually know what BitCoin is and less than that actually use it :laugh: 

​It could be fiat, digital, or some sort of token for your site if you want.  When I create the plugin, I'm going to try to make it as flexible as possible for different people's situations.

Yea, many people don't know about digital currencies yet.  But considering Bitcoin just sponsored a Bowl game and is accepted at various online stores, things are picking up.  I was thinking about creating the ability for anyone to use their own coin on their forum.  So, you could create a "car" coin and have members trade it or give it away for free (just an example).

In the end, I'm just trying to think of ways to get people more involved on a forum.  If someone doesn't want to use tipping on their site, that's up to them.

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I can barely get members to hit like to appreciate good posts other members make. Convincing them to start tipping with no benefit or return incentive will be quite a challenge. I do like the outside the box thinking though.

​Yea, I have the same issue on my forum with the likes.  I'm hoping this would spark members to get more involved.  I know it will work for my community, probably won't work on others.

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I do like the general concept, and will likely plan on using a form of tipping for my site. For me, the tipping system should act as more of a locallzed (internal) digital currency with a value of $1/coin. Members would be able to gain currency through a direct purchase of coins (nexus), through a premium/supporter membership (nexus), through use of various features of the site (post counts, etc), or by internal transfer from another member.Getting coins into the system is one of the major problems I see. I do not see a large number of people directly buying coins to give away, nor would a site owner be able to offer them for site use without underlying revenue. 

One of the things that I believe would make this work on my particular site is that many members will have a similar need/desire to purchase an underlying service from the site from time to time if they want the best/most up to date information about their hobby. Not every site will have this, but I think it is one of the core aspects that will encourage the purchase/use/donation of coins. At my site users post reports of mushrooms. For an interesting report, there may be 10 people who are interested enough in the species that they would jointly tip enough to get a DNA test on the mushroom ($20-$30). Or even a single individual with enough interest. 

I would also see members doing things like forming specific joint regional projects, and encouraging other members to tip/donate towards their goals with our internal currency. This would also encourage sharing outside of the site. By having specific types of internal coins, users donating/tipping coins would know that all their dollars would go towards their shared goals. Without that shared underlying purpose for the tips based around a commercial service, I would see little chance of tipping alone being used or accepted broadly in our community. 

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Some of the ideas mentioned here are things we've actually brought up internally before. I can't say if/when they would be added, but we've been thinking along similar lines.

​Great to hear!

On a side note, maybe adding support for Bitcoin would be considered?  That way at least you'll have a foundation for digital currencies and can get feedback from customers.  I thing you guys would be pretty safe adding support for Bitcoin at this point.  I think it's safe to say that Bitcoin isn't going anywhere for awhile.

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  • 1 year later...
On 1/1/2015 at 0:23 PM, superj707 said:

I can barely get members to hit like to appreciate good posts other members make. Convincing them to start tipping with no benefit or return incentive will be quite a challenge. I do like the outside the box thinking though.

changed my mind. I think this is a good idea. a tip option per post would be awesome. People would TIP!! because users want to encourage posters to keep up the great work. Maybe there could be a min tip setting in ACP.. Tip must be >$1  for example

Requesting that someone develop this here

 

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+100! I believe in the idea, as I want to create a mixed system, maybe it could be based on the @Kevin Carwile points economy mod:

  1. Members can buy points via IP.commerce, they pay money and get points in exchange.
  2. If you buy big amounts of points at once you get lucky discounts (-> discount levels, the more points you buy the more extra points you get)
  3. Members also get sponsored points by community owner (minimal teaser amounts) they earn for content creation (configurable amount x, depending what content was created)
  4. Maybe sponsored points should expire after 1 year...
  5. M. can transfer points to other members (community owner takes a commission fee, f.e. 10%, to tip free high quality content creation)
  6. M. can use points to buy subscriptions in IP.Commerce (premium memberships) or file downloads in IP.downloads (community owner also takes a commission fee)
  7. F.e. to download a free file, you have to invest at least 1 or x points (50/50 - author / commission fee) or similar
  8. There should be a "no refund" option for general members, while only commercial authors in a special member group could exchange points to money...

Maybe it could be created with points economy. But I assume it would require some extended coding. 

And there has to be some beautiful visual enhancements, lovely designed rewarding (tipping) buttons

I would go in with you, if anybody decides to develop...

If anyone decides, ask me to help scripting a system.

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