Enterprise Spam Mitigation - $200 a year... really?

[Matt]

When you compare vBulletin price , don't forget that it is a complete package. You don't need to buy/renew CMS , Blog etc as additional options.

Even if we set aside the point that IP.Content offers more functionality and flexibility than their offering, the price comes out at $275 for IP.Board, Blog and IP.Content with $50/6 months renewals. It's a few dollars more for the licenses, but the renewals are still cheaper and we aren't going to make you re-purchase your licenses when the next major version is out unlike vBulletin.

[Farcaster II]

When you compare vBulletin price , don't forget that it is a complete package. You don't need to buy/renew CMS , Blog etc as additional options.

They call it package, but c'mon. CMS? There's none! And the other stuff they call "blog" or social forums? It's not really usable...

We all know exactly, WHY we left vB;)

But yea, I support & agree with

3. You were suppose to be working on IPB 4 , thats what all customers expect however instead you are putting out a service where no one needs and IPB 4 is delayed , many of IPB 4 information is still unknown et..

I'm not very active here yet, because i'm not a huge IPB3 fan but i'm really thrilled of all the IPB4 blogposts and inovations and stopped/delayed several projects because i thought that it's better to wait for IPB4, before i start the project with xf and move it then to IPB4.

All this waiting makes me really worried and scared(because all the staff post just include "we have many more blog posts" which means => we'll not see it live THAT soon")

Since yesterday I'm really not sure, IF the waiting for the first IPB4 live demo was the right decigion.

[Matt]

I completely understand how you feel. I have the benefit of knowing exactly where we are with IPS 4 and I can also watch it take shape. All I can do is reassure you that we're all very heavily involved with IPS 4.

I just took a look and there were 18 commits to the IPS 4 SVN repository yesterday alone!

We're managing IPS 4 differently to how we've done in the past. Typically we'd put up a very rough alpha as soon as possible and keep updating it. However, this time, we're making sure that what we reveal is closer to a beta. This means that the time between reveal and download is much closer.

I accept that this looks like we're not doing much or worse, hardly anything is done but that isn't the case. Once we're happy with the front end theme, we'll have a deluge of blogs to show you.

We've always maintained that you should not wait for IPS 4 if you have a project that you're looking to launch imminently but should instead use IP.Board 3 as it is very stable and available right now. The upgrade to 4 will be straight forward enough and there is no compunction to upgrade to it immediately if you are happy with your current version.

Our focus is on creating great software. IPS 4 is great software and we're very excited too!

[Adriano Faria]

However, this time, we're making sure that what we reveal is closer to a beta. This means that the time between reveal and download is much closer.

^That.

I really hope that the developers can make use of it in a reasonable time before even Beta, if possible. We'll have to make all plugins from scratch and some, like me, needs to translate the whole suite, not only IP.Board. Otherwise we'll see again all those whining posts in support topics, especially those paid.

You know users, they don't like to wait! If IPS 4 is released today, they want ALL plugins and translations done tomorrow!

[bfarber]

As Matt mentioned, our core 4.0 development team did NOT work on the enterprise spam service offerings. We have many development needs beyond building new versions and releasing maintenance updates. We have team members that are not necessarily core development that tackle the bulk of these things. Our converters need routine updates for instance, but we don't stop work on 4.0 to handle that.

Third party developers and skinners will get early access to 4.0 betas in order to help familiarize them with the system and start reviewing the code before the betas are available for public testing. We very much value your input prior to release. :smile: We are also looking in to and considering hosting a few development-oriented training sessions to help explain some of the new concepts in the code base. We want our developer community to have every opportunity to succeed with 4.0, and to help the rest of our client base get the tools they need that aren't available out of the box as quickly as possible.

[Charles]

We are not trying to be the cheapest of anything and in fact will openly say so. We provide quality support for our products. You talk about less expensive scripts but can you submit tickets at any time to them? No: they either charge extra for that or simply don't have that ability. Do you get competent, no-drama, shoe-wearing, and experienced development and management? Not even a little bit. Do their developers, managers, and owners talk to their clients? Barely. If you want cheap you can go somewhere else and get a company that removes features they don't know how to fix or are a cult of personality rather than a focused company doing what we do best.

Yes copyright is expensive but keep in mind it costs is a lot when people remove our little line at the bottom. That's our advertising. We would have to greatly raise our fees if it wasn't there. Besides in our entire history it's something that like maybe 1% of people buy. It's not something most people even ask for let alone give a second thought.

The enterprise spam service is designed for enterprise clients (of which we have quite a few very high-profile sites we manage). We do not expect the average community to have any need to purchase it. In fact, we don't even have it enabled here on our site because it's not necessary unless you have a specific need. And you don't see our forum filled with spam do you?

So for those of you that are hand-wringing over non-issues I invite you to take a step back and ask yourself why you are. What is your goal and real concern? Has IPS ever, in its history, ever done anything even remotely like those "other guys" ... of course not because that would just be silly. IPS makes community software. That's what we do all day long. We are, if I may say so, really quite good at it.

And for the record: 4.0 is not being delayed for things like this. It's not even the same people doing these items as working on 4.0. Plus 4.0 is way further along than our blog entries would have you believe as we are holding off on revealing the front end until we are ready.

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[Farcaster II]

Third party developers and skinners will get early access to 4.0 betas in order to help familiarize them with the system and start reviewing the code before the betas are available for public testing. We very much value your input prior to release. :smile: We are also looking in to and considering hosting a few development-oriented training sessions to help explain some of the new concepts in the code base. We want our developer community to have every opportunity to succeed with 4.0, and to help the rest of our client base get the tools they need that aren't available out of the box as quickly as possible.

This sounds amazing:)

[VyVid Productions]

IPS has both Hobbyist and Commercial clients who need to meet two different goals, so obviously prices are going to differ. I don't think they're moving in the direction of Internet Brand's vBulletin because, quite simply, they charge fair and competitive prices, they work hard to re-invest in their products (like the extensive push into 4.0 and going into each and every app of theirs for the major upgrade), they are really transparent (as I bet this blog article was typing to do) with their pricing structure, intentions, and software, and they provide excellent support. There isn't any other forum or community software company I'd rather go to than IPS. I've never felt that they're a "big business" company on the verge of turning into vBulletin. Never. And I've probably driven their support folks crazy at times with the multi-part questions I send in tickets, sometimes repeating myself for clarity. They're always top-notch and helpful beyond reproach and that is what I like about them.

Plus I must say, with the likes of corporations and government organizations that value their products enough to purchase them, like NBC, NASA, etc., they must be doing something that their Enterprise clients like.

Yes I like a good value, who doesn't? But IPS certainly does offer a good value, great support, and most importantly, full and complete, great software.

So I'm not sure why people are worked up about a blog article meant to directly talk with their Enterprise clientele, not the hobbyist like me and many on here. You still get a similar spam service for free. And as to the copyright, it's their prerogative to charge whatever they'd like for it. Heck, they could say it's permanently placed there and you can never get it off. I mean, when you guys buy a new 50" LCD TV, do you immediately unbox it, see the Samsung or Sony logo and go find a bucket of black paint to paint over the logo so you don't see it anymore? That's the logic I'm hearing here and honestly, it doesn't make sense to question it like that. It's their software, they spent a great deal of time working on it, you license the software from them, they're giving you an option to remove the copyright for a one-time fee of $500/license. As far as I'm concerned, they're well within their rights to do so.

What am I not getting here?

[IPTV]

Thanks for all the replies. (As the OP, please feel free to close this thread.)

In closing, sure it was for the Enterprise clients...but the way it came off, clearly, was a way to maybe just charge for something. It was never mentioned, until all the comments came up, that it was geared towards multi IP server setups which require special things to take place. It talked about the new settings and how much better is was for spam control with some of the settings you can already kind of do in a round about way.

As such you can maybe see how the message could have been received and thus all the comments that came of it. As such, owners and members started to then bring in the other costs and started to become concerned at the increases. Remember, most of the sites that run such software really do not make a lot off them for the most part. Most are not enterprise clients but people that have day jobs. As such, they have to consider the costs. And most NEW clients they would want so they can continue to grow, surely will look at costs of operation. Sure they have enterprise clients, great. And they can charge them differently and offer custom services, as I am sure they do, as their needs surely are different and can also be harder to support.

I made a living off of community building in having built some very large sites. I was a Vb customer for many years and came here based on how poorly Vb started to become. Before I did, I did my research and liked what I read.

So yes, I agree, and stated, I like these guys. I like the support which I have used when not only have I found issues that end up being bugs, but also when just something strange is happening. The product itself is, for the most part, solid. The staff members do get things done when their are issues the best they can. They are responsive and yes, the owner of the company can be reached and does care enough to post publicly. (That in itself says a lot mind you.)

All in all, to me, to have posted such a message takes a lot. My hope was to have Invison give some thought as to how the message was received. In this case it clearly was not well received and how some of the staff members posted about it did not help really. (sorry)

Look, I made a living off of community building in having built some very large sites to the point of becoming semi-retired at the age of 45 because of it (I am now 47). I started in communities way back in the text days of the Internet. I was a Vb user for many years and came here based on how poorly Vb started to become not only in coding, but support. Before I did, I did my research and liked what I read, so here I am now with one small (to me) site running on the platform. (100K members, 3.1 million posts)

All in all, I am not looking to go anywhere, but at the same time I was concerned when I read of a $200 a year fee for better spam protection as I was then uncertain on the direction they were going. I now understand it was really to help support multi server configs. Great. But that is not how it came off and the added settings talked about surely had nothing to do with multi IP's and seems like something that should have really just been part of the system as they really seemed minor.

All in all, looking forward to the future to see what great things they have in store. I hope to meet Lindy someday as we travel the road to say hello.

Thank you.

[SidV]

I'm not a IPS client (yet; I'm still brainstorming; lol).

This is a beautiful discussion.

Thanks to all for share your opinions.

I really apreciate that IPS staff members were reading, and replaying to all (of us), and I hope they are taking notes about our afraid that fall into the vB mistakes.

Regards,

Sid

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_{Sorry about my english.}