IPS Marketplace - the Vince Flynn secret spy changeout

[CnCNet]

No matter how many changes to these category names, nothing (I don't think) will truly be perfect unless you can offer to refine search results down to what product the end user ultimately wants to search in.

Something like this might work out quite well. A list of all IPB products the user wants to refine results down to.

So tag what IPB product you want to search for, and go from there.

Quick example of what I mean:

[Sonya*]

It is for clients.

So still for me :smile: I am happy.

Most clients simply don't understand what "Hooks" vs "Modules" vs "Applications" means.

Agree. But why you are sure that they understand what Maintenance, Integration and IPS extra mean? It is the same "strange thing" for them like hooks, modules and applications in my eyes.

Many addons are not specific to a single app (i.e. a group name indicator is not for board or gallery or downloads, it's for all products).

Make a category core or IPS community suite like feedback board. Right now I do not know where I should search for PM addons or for bbcodes?

Look at ANY existing marketplace out there. Amazon, ebay, Apple, Android, etc. They categorize by function.

For me they are categorized by subject and not functions. Shoes are shoes (yes, it's a woman :D). Shoes are not "look-and-feel", they are shoes. Car is something for men (I guess :D) and not "driving". Toys are toys a not "play with kids". Generally every thing can be used to play with kids, not only toys.

IP.Blog - is something that I bought and run or not. If not, I do not need add-ons for it. I do not need car spray if I do not have a car. So I would not look into this category if I have not purchased IP.Blog and would not waste my time.

Applications - are new apps (completely new functionality), do not depend on what I have bought so far or not.

Modules can be subcategory to the app where the module belongs to, for the user there is no need to differ though.

Hooks is extended functionality to what I bought or not.

Add descriptions to the categories (is there description field for category?) to explain briefly what Applications are and what hooks are.

How I see it:

IP.Suite

- hooks

- modules

IP.Blog

- hooks

- modules

IP.Content

- hooks

- modules

- databases

- blocks

- skins

IP.Gallery

- hooks

- modules

3rd party apps

here no categories at all, for me there is no need to differ between hook, application and module or functionality.

Skins and design

- emoticons

- badges

- icons

Language packs

Now I can look through the categories and see what IPS.App(s) I've purchased and subscribe to the mathced category, no need to know if there are new hooks, modules or blocks or something else. This is something that I can generally buy to extend my functionality. If I do not know what IP.Downloads or IP.Nexus are I will not subscribe. Then I decide if I would like to be informed about every 3rd party apps. I am generally interested in every 3rd party app, I cannot say right now if it would deal with security, social engagement (what is this?) or with look-and-feel. Just every new application that I probably buy or follow to see how it is reviewed to buy later.

[HeadStand]

How I see it:

IP.Suite

- hooks

- modules

Please stop this. Seriously. Hooks can have modules and modules can have hooks. Why on earth people insist on separating them is beyond my comprehension.

Also, what difference does it make if it's a module or a hook? Will one categorization over the other influence your buying decision?

[Sonya*]

Also, what difference does it make if it's a module or a hook? Will one categorization over the other influence your buying decision?

I agree with you. As I have written above, for user is not important if it is a hook or module. The user should only know whether this can be used with apps he run. Nothing more. I will not go through all these strange categories to figure out whether there is a hook or module or what ever else for IP.Gallery. I would like to subscribe to the category for IP.Gallery and get anything that deals with it and nothing more. Not look-and-feel, not user engagement and not maintenance. I am just interested in IP.Gallery. If this can be accomplished some way then I am fine. If no, then I do not how know to be notified about new stuff for IP.Gallery.

IP.Gallery is just an example. You can replace it above with any other app.

HeadStand, by the way we have found you calendar enhancements some weeks after we have written almost identical functionality ourselves. :sad: That's why I suggest to differ by product and not functionality or by hooks or something else. If developers or IPS need sub-categories like hook then they can make them and place the things there. But for the user it does not matter and he will browse through the entire IP.Calendar or IP.Gallery or other app category.

[HeadStand]

You know... thinking more about everyone's points, might I suggest a compromise?

The new categories are very good, but really useful for full 3rd-party applications, people that are looking for something completely new for their site. What if instead, we had:

Applications

- Moderation Tools

- Promotion

- User & Social Engagement

- etc...

Add-Ons

- Forums

- Blog

- Calendar

- etc...

Look & Feel

I'm still not sure how that would handle mods that work with multiple components. Shame we can't have multiple categories (which is really why this entire reorganization started in the first place).

[TracyIsland]

This is insaity. I was so exasperated last night while I attempted to pay it forward. So many people have taken the time to help me out so I tried to help another person on the community who had a question. I just wish this moment in time had been one of those User Interface studies where the observer stands behind you and watches how you attempt to find something, counts the number of clicks you perform, and asks why you did this or did that.

http://community.invisionpower.com/topic/386622-sidebar-block-customization/

My idea: he could benefit from Marcher's follow file.

I literally clicked through every 'new category', and went from page to page to page looking for this file. Sure it didn't help that Marcher had thrown off this file after his declaration of no more free work. After my first attempt at finding the file in the new categories, I clicked through the old categories. Then I went looking for Marcher's files, any files, so I could click on that vast and helpful resource known as View Other Files from this Member. But I couldn't find Marcher's files anywhere so then I just scanned through some of the forums until I found Marcher's reply to something and clicked on his user profile, clicked on the tab that said Files, and then clicked on one of his files and then I clicked on View Other Files from this Member and still nothing.

Finally I did a search using unread and after paging through three pages I spotted the file.

I am sure some of you super developers and 1's and 0's out there will immediately declare me to be a total sand head. But this was a real life example of me searching to find a file. I identify as a non-developer, end user. As Adriano said, it is me that ends up suffering.

This is total and complete insanity.

Please consider scrapping this new categorization. I presented a list of super simple categories. Some people shot some of my suggested categories full of holes and rightly so but I think the list I offered has value nonetheless. BFarber, I agree with you that looking at Sonya's list that says hooks, applications, and modules has zero meaning to me but then she does offer a brilliant and simple category that I had not remembered, like language packs.

On the other hand, BFarber says that companies like Amazon and eBay sort by function. I don't agree. I look at Home Depot, at Amazon, at WalMart, and I find simple names like electronics, like books, like video. This is what Steve Krug's book Don't Make Me Think is all about. Maybe it is function but it doesn't appear that way to me on these big name websites.

I don't think there is anything wrong with having a top list of categories that is 15 or 20 or 25 long. You find the subject you want and you jump in.

My recommendation to fix this mess is to come up with a 1 - 3 person non-developer and non-marketplace moderator team, people like me and Aunt Madge, and simply sort all these files. The authors could have the right to object if they felt their files were placed inappropriately but I would venture to say that 95% of the reorganization would be done without much fuss and muss. I don't think it would take too long and we would have a much happier group of end users.

[bfarber]

BFarber, I agree with you that looking at Sonya's list that says hooks, applications, and modules has zero meaning to me but then she does offer a brilliant and simple category that I had not remembered, like language packs.

On the other hand, BFarber says that companies like Amazon and eBay sort by function. I don't agree. I look at Home Depot, at Amazon, at WalMart, and I find simple names like electronics, like books, like video. This is what Steve Krug's book Don't Make Me Think is all about. Maybe it is function but it doesn't appear that way to me on these big name websites.

Just to be clear...we can call it function or whatever you like, but the point stands.

Walmart does not categorize by brand (i.e. product in our case). It is also difficult to translate real-world items that can be shipped into abstract concepts like software.

The problem with categorizing by app is that this, too, is often confusing for the user in many scenarios.

What if the addon supports more than one app? What if it alters the commenting system for instance, or it stylizes something across the suite? Or what if it integrates one app into another (like adding a cross-linking between a database in content and topics in a forum)?

What if I buy the entire suite as a new user, and I say "I'd like it so when I post my admins get notification" (random example, don't know if there is an addon for this, disclaimer etc.)? How would this new user think "I should look in "Forums""? What if they want postings anywhere (because frankly, most new users don't understand or care about the intricacies in the differences between a topic post and a comment) to do this? How would they know where to look?

We need to start migrating away from the thinking that everything somehow is tagged and associated with a product we release. When 4.0 comes out, all products will be very very integrated and the lines are going to get quickly blurred what product is a "parent" for an addon. Further, it will be possible to disable our products entirely and simply build your own using our framework (in theory). The notion that every addon directly correlates to one of our products or is an application and that this is how we should be thinking is very antiquated.

Personally, I wouldn't suggest that the current category structure is the end-all be-all and that there isn't any room for improvement. But I don't think we're going to go back to a product-based categorization either. There seem to be very few suggestions coming in that fall somewhere in between. :rofl:

[HeadStand]

Suggestion: Tag Cloud?

Since we are tagging by component, that would give people a pretty easy way to search.

[TracyIsland]

I think a tag cloud is brilliant!

[CnCNet]

I like the idea of tags with the marketplace, but not how it's used right now. I see problems with the current way contributors are tagging. They can put what they want, which is fine until they define what app(IPB product) it actually supports:

I could have a product for IP.Content and in the tag fields, I put Content. Another contributor adds a product later, but tags it as IP.Content. We now have two places a product could be tagged under and thus search in. Same can happen for IP.Board, do they tag it as that, or Board, Forums?

Create predefined tags so that this never happens. Let us select predefined tags that you (IPS) wants us to use, and that way we aren't messing this up.

Some of us were told to remove the IP. prefix from our product titles but I'm thinking its possibly the only way of telling the difference between products now. So does the same apply with tags, Content or IP.Content? Its marketed as IP.Content so why are we putting tags as Content.

[TracyIsland]

I agree with you Grant. I think predefined tags is an excellent idea. It will help with searching tremendously. At least this is one toe in the water of having a small team or person catalog things, forcing people to use a predefined set of criteria.

I tried to find another file the other night and pretty much went through the same experience I described previously. This list of categories makes no sense to the simple guy. I don't care how much IPS defends this as the 'new normal.' It is just bewildering.

[Sonya*]

By all the discussions around tags, please do not forget about following. I really would like to follow only tags for the apps I have bought. I do not know how tag cloud can solve my "follow" issue ;) It is a horror when I think that I have to look "manually" through all categories and tags to find out if something new has been submitted. Thank you!

[Dylan Riggs]

I don't like it at all. The old marketplace was fine. IPS could of just thrown in some of the extra features, they didn't have to basically recategorize the whole marketplace. If a category needed to be added, it should of been added manually. Not take away all the categories, throw in 15 difference ones, and then have every developer recategorize their apps to get rid of the 'old' one. Further more, users have to stay searching and reading for the things they want.

A lot of things are going to be tagged the same, and not exactly going to be useful for that instance. Let's take for example an IP.Content template. You would assume it would go in themes, but in themes, you have all the other IPB themes out there, and you tag it with "IP.Content" or some variation of it... well guess what. You, bob, tom, john, jerry, susie, sallie, sarah and 100 other different people also tagged some of their skins with "IP.Content" despite it not really being an "Ip.Content" theme but more of "this supports IP.Content!" And now said user has been browsing these skins just to find a template,

Where as the old style, you simply went to Skins/Template > IP.Content templates > done... provided the developer accurately categorized the theme already. What was wrong with this? If a user doesn't know what a hook is........ they don't know how to use IPB software at all, and they DEFINITELY DON'T know what Integration or Utilities are, either. What's a hook?...... what's a utility? Do I have to pay it, if I don't pay it, will my power go off, Lindy? haha

Don't change things that work and are familiar with already. Change isn't always good, and definitely not this in my honest opinion.

[Lewis P]

I think predefined tags is an excellent idea.

Not really... I think it was Marcher who pointed out that now you can have addons for other applications like Classifieds just by tagging them with that application name. Make them predefined, and you ruin that possibility.

Maybe suggested tags, but not predefined.

[CnCNet]

You could just "manually" enter those :poke:

Predefined tags for the majority, i.e official, the rest you can manually enter.

[TracyIsland]

I don't like it at all. The old marketplace was fine. IPS could of just thrown in some of the extra features, they didn't have to basically recategorize the whole marketplace. If a category needed to be added, it should of been added manually. Not take away all the categories, throw in 15 difference ones, and then have every developer recategorize their apps to get rid of the 'old' one. Further more, users have to stay searching and reading for the things they want.

A lot of things are going to be tagged the same, and not exactly going to be useful for that instance. Let's take for example an IP.Content template. You would assume it would go in themes, but in themes, you have all the other IPB themes out there, and you tag it with "IP.Content" or some variation of it... well guess what. You, bob, tom, john, jerry, susie, sallie, sarah and 100 other different people also tagged some of their skins with "IP.Content" despite it not really being an "Ip.Content" theme but more of "this supports IP.Content!" And now said user has been browsing these skins just to find a template,

Where as the old style, you simply went to Skins/Template > IP.Content templates > done... provided the developer accurately categorized the theme already. What was wrong with this? If a user doesn't know what a hook is........ they don't know how to use IPB software at all, and they DEFINITELY DON'T know what Integration or Utilities are, either. What's a hook?...... what's a utility? Do I have to pay it, if I don't pay it, will my power go off, Lindy? haha

Don't change things that work and are familiar with already. Change isn't always good, and definitely not this in my honest opinion.

Perfectly said!

[Dmacleo]

fix the search itself before wasting time on this

[Dylan Riggs]

fix the search itself before wasting time on this

Gotta love searching for smoething in say, IP.Content in the old category and return 100 results with 86 of them being skins and then 10 being hooks and the last 4 are what you really want...

[Dmacleo]

Gotta love searching for smoething in say, IP.Content in the old category and return 100 results with 86 of them being skins and then 10 being hooks and the last 4 are what you really want...

or not being able to search for certain words. even if the words are part of the name of the mod. thats always useful....