Quoting in IPB 3.4, not satisifed

[Wolfie]

Don't you people ever learn. Never ever upgrade when the .0.0 version comes out. You're essentially public beta testing.

Slight correction.. ".0" not ".0.0", because that would imply that ".1.0" and ".4.0" are never flawed. ;)

Still a very valid... and amusingly put point. When a .0 comes out, I wait at least 2 or 3 days after it's been widely announced (via email) and check the bug tracker. Just a few bugs that aren't that bad, I upgrade. Lots of bugs or any that are nasty or would be rather annoying/etc, I wait.

Thinking back to X-Men 3, Magneto makes a reference to fighting is like playing chess, you let the pawns go first. In other words, wait while others blindly go in and uncover the problems, meanwhile you sit back and smile to yourself because you weren't one of the sacrifices. :D

[Fast Lane!]

My members complain about the editor. I guess IPB does what THEY want with the development of the code base and Invision Power (Invisionboard) does not care what WE, the community who pay them, want.

Google please index this. This seems like the only way we can vocalize our frustration. Inivsion has already buried this forum 3 layers deep in the forums so people can't see complaints as easily.

[Marcher Technologies]

My members complain about the editor. I guess IPB does what THEY want with the development of the code base and Invision Power (Invisionboard) does not care what WE, the community who pay them, want.

Google please index this. This seems like the only way we can vocalize our frustration with a diminishing product. Inivsion has already buried this forum 3 layers deep in the forums so people can't see complaints as easily.

Just so you are aware, the forums rearrange was made due to consumer feedback given in this very forum.

Assume not, lest people assume things of you.

[Fast Lane!]

Interesting (sorry I am not on here too much). If I was wrong, then for the global audience: "Sorry".

My frustration is still there though. I think that you have to avoid feature creep and putting 1000+ features for all requests or maintaining the code would be impossible. However, if there are common areas of feedback I hope attention is indeed placed there.

[Marcher Technologies]

Don't you people ever learn. Never ever upgrade when the .0.0 version comes out. You're essentially public beta testing. Pretty much all software developers do this so it's not just IPS. The release version that the masses get brings up bugs that didn't get picked up with Beta testing. Likely because it's not being testing on live sites with lots of posts and members.

To put it nicely... no, they don't. It is one of the very first things I impress upon clients asking for an upgrade.

Some listen, and all is well. Some do not, and then turn to me in outrage when bugs crop up, when all I can do is shake my head, apply what patches are available and say 'I told you so... so why am I not allowed to roll back to the backup again?'. Worst part is, they never learn. -.-

[Ryan H.]

You guys realize you COULD solve all these complaints about the RTE by enabling the buttons to insert the bbcode in the STD editor... and adding 1 setting to the ACP to control which mode to automatically turn on.

All you have to do is make it splat in the tags, then you can do the RTE conversion on post.

It's far easier to put in then developing the CDN, the Backup service and all these extras you are making... and you'd get far more positive feedback for making this change.

What is your priority? Is it customer satisfaction? If it was, you'd be doing what the community has asked for many times.

You say it like it's a three-minute change. :ermm: yeah, just enable those buttons and add a setting... nevermind that it's unsupported custom functionality on a rather complex third-party resource.

[Seriously, CKEditor does not do this.]

[Marcher Technologies]

0.o when did they remove buttons in source? not speaking of the bbcode demo, I mean in full? one used to be able to swap cke to source and still have buttons in the original standard/full modes would insert the raw html..... that wasn't even that long ago. :ermm:

On a side, slightly related note....

so we are now officially a full 2 versions behind on CKE(on CKE 4.0 now, we are using 3.6.4) -.-

My beef has been, and continues to be this.

You dropped the in-house editor, for something a third party maintains.

Then you customized it, and customized it, and customized it.

This is not the CKEditor anymore, there is not even a clean upgrade path, and my argument remains that's WHY its so buggy.

CKSource fixes bugs, and we have to wait on a backport.

You introduce bugs never been seen by any CKE before... how is this productive?

I personally see this whole mess as a largely counterproductive fail in the most vital part of the software.... Matt, you spending less, or more time on editor bugs since 3.2?

I understand fully the reasons for dropping an inhouse editor. Problem is, you just made another, arguably more buggy than the inhouse editor of 3.1, and the cke itself.

So basically, the remaining choices are this as I see it:

A: Stop maintaining extreme customizations to a third-party source, provide an upgrade rebuild tool, abstract the bbcode plugins to actual cke plugins, point all editor feature requests at cke(least work really TBH).

B: Acquiesce to the most demanded features to be uttered opposing this editor, and continue down this road of maintenance hell.

Also, I would very very much like to know who requested this current madness of 'live' quote/codeboxes?

Scanning feedback, I am not seeing it... I also see no reason for this feature so haphazardly added.

I find it extremely funny a feature I've not seen requested, nor would even want(but of course now I have to deal with it's mangling), takes precedence over a feature spanning a dozen feedback topics.

[Lindy]

Please allow us a day or two to mull over and discuss this feedback internally to see if there's improvements we can make. We do listen - but the solution isn't always as simple as it seems. There is NO editor that I've ever used that's perfect and you're effectively asking us to push a golf ball through a straw. In the future, something will have to give -- and that may be the increasingly antiquated BBCode. In the interim, we will take the feedback on board and see what we can do.

In the meantime, perhaps Marcher can whip up an editor real quick-like -- he seems to have a pretty solid handle on how to do it. :lol:

Again, we listen. We'll do what we can. :)

[Marcher Technologies]

In the meantime, perhaps Marcher can whip up an editor real quick-like -- he seems to have a pretty solid handle on how to do it. :lol:

Again, we listen. We'll do what we can. :smile:

:smile: Glad to hear, and for reference... reread my post, my whole point was, and remains, if the decision was to reduce dev time spent on that editor in dropping the inhouse, that failed miserably because you did whip up an editor yourselves, and now maintain it ;) .

[Lindy]

You have a very valid point. The editor is consumes far more dev time than it should. Part of that is because we're pushing the editor, based on feedback, to do things it's not intended to do.

Matt is better qualified to answer the specifics, so again, we'll bounce it around internally and hopefully have more answers for you shortly.

Thanks for your patience.

[Cyrem]

You say it like it's a three-minute change. :ermm: yeah, just enable those buttons and add a setting... nevermind that it's unsupported custom functionality on a rather complex third-party resource.

[Seriously, CKEditor does not do this.]

0.o when did they remove buttons in source? not speaking of the bbcode demo, I mean in full? one used to be able to swap cke to source and still have buttons in the original standard/full modes would insert the raw html..... that wasn't even that long ago. :ermm:

I ask the same question, I'm positive it HAD this functionally not to long ago.

(Someone here wrote a replacement editor that brings back the buttons... but I can't seem to find the topic anymore :/ )

Please Lindy, for the love of everyone here, PLEASE work out a solution.

EDIT:

You have a very valid point. The editor is consumes far more dev time than it should. Part of that is because we're pushing the editor, based on feedback, to do things it's not intended to do.

This is why I think it would have been better to build a new in-house editor for IPS products and not rely on some other editor made by people you can't control... you are always playing catch-up. Sure the inital work is quite a lot, but if you treat it like any other IPS Product, you'll pull through and the result will be worth it.

you're effectively asking us to push a golf ball through a straw

The great thing about this is, it's not impossible... it just requires some heat.... which is what we are doing :P :)

[Wolfie]

You have a very valid point. The editor is consumes far more dev time than it should. Part of that is because we're pushing the editor, based on feedback, to do things it's not intended to do.

Speaking of which, will 3.4.2 include the ability to cook and deliver steaks and/or pizzas?

[Cyrem]

Speaking of which, will 3.4.2 include the ability to cook and deliver steaks and/or pizzas?

Oh if only IPS Build their own editor again... such would be possible :rolleyes:

Rikki has been lurking in this topic for far too long ;)

[Lindy]

Speaking of which, will 3.4.2 include the ability to cook and deliver steaks and/or pizzas?

No, but hopefully it will have the ability to dispense tranquilizers, because I could really use them. :D

[Ryan H.]

This is why I think it would have been better to build a new in-house editor for IPS products and not rely on some other editor made by people you can't control... you are always playing catch-up. Sure the inital work is quite a lot, but if you treat it like any other IPS Product, you'll pull through and the result will be worth it.

I think nostalgia might be dimming just how troublesome the original editor was. It worked, usually, in BBCode mode, but it did not compare to the current editor in any way, shape, or form. If you roll with a custom solution, suddenly you're spending development time trying to get all of that right (and really, it is quite complicated with custom BBCode, RTE, interchanges, and all of that), and ever-increasing device compatibility issues, locale, and all of the same sort of weird edge cases that pop up occasionally with CKEditor itself. I really don't see how totally changing course on the editor again could possibly end up with a better solution in the short term.

[HeadStand]

Personally... I turned off the RTE mode months ago (probably like 5 seconds after it was introduced on this site) and I haven't turned it back on since. I would rather manually type out BBCode than even attempt to use the new editor. (Carpal tunnel, here we come!)

[Cyrem]

I think nostalgia might be dimming just how troublesome the original editor was. It worked, usually, in BBCode mode, but it did not compare to the current editor in any way, shape, or form. If you roll with a custom solution, suddenly you're spending development time trying to get all of that right (and really, it is quite complicated with custom BBCode, RTE, interchanges, and all of that), and ever-increasing device compatibility issues, locale, and all of the same sort of weird edge cases that pop up occasionally with CKEditor itself. I really don't see how totally changing course on the editor again could possibly end up with a better solution in the short term.

You may be right, however my point was it would be far easier to customize. Not only from a modding POV but even skinning. It is better in the long term, and I think it should be treated as a product that is easy to plug n' play into other applications.

Obviously, such a change could not be done in a speedy fashion and would not help the situation right now.

[Marcher Technologies]

Cyrem, I think it is possible you think such a thing is even on the table.
Regardless of the insane amount of man-hours such would take, if that was on the table we would not be using cke now... the original goal in the removal of the 3.1 in-house as I understand it was to reduce development time spent on all the things Ryan mentions, allowing more time devoted to the ohsomany other items the core and suite apps handle.
While that original goal is not being met at this time, I do not see a complete reversal and dedication of those countless man-hours on such another in-house editor occurring..... again(this is basically yet another in-house editor we now use lol).

The utter depreciation of [bbcode] is the only thing holding IPB back from just popping a couple of custom CKE plugins and a skin in and being 'done'.

That transference made, any WYSIWYG could be dropped in, be it CKE, TinyMce, some yet to be created WYSIWYG, a bleeding textarea(not wysiwyg, but arguably less frustrating) :tongue: .The difficulty in replacement for another editor, and modification, literally, unarguably, is supporting [bbcode], a completely nonstandard markup dreamed up by the forum industry no editor in existence comes prepared to handle without bugs(side note, thanks for making me pop over to the demo again Ryan... lol FF makes bbcode mode freak on some specific tags).

One heck of a hard swap to make though.

[Cyrem]

Cyrem, I think it is possible you think such a thing is even on the table.
Regardless of the insane amount of man-hours such would take, if that was on the table we would not be using cke now... the original goal in the removal of the 3.1 in-house as I understand it was to reduce development time spent on all the things Ryan mentions, allowing more time devoted to the ohsomany other items the core and suite apps handle.
While that original goal is not being met at this time, I do not see a complete reversal and dedication of those countless man-hours on such another in-house editor occurring..... again(this is basically yet another in-house editor we now use lol).

The utter depreciation of [bbcode] is the only thing holding IPB back from just popping a couple of custom CKE plugins and a skin in and being 'done'.

That transference made, any WYSIWYG could be dropped in, be it CKE, TinyMce, some yet to be created WYSIWYG, a bleeding textarea(not wysiwyg, but arguably less frustrating) :tongue: .The difficulty in replacement for another editor, and modification, literally, unarguably, is supporting [bbcode], a completely nonstandard markup dreamed up by the forum industry no editor in existence comes prepared to handle without bugs(side note, thanks for making me pop over to the demo again Ryan... lol FF makes bbcode mode freak on some specific tags).

One heck of a hard swap to make though.

I can dream can't I?

[Wolfie]

Oh if only IPS Build their own editor again... such would be possible :rolleyes:

I was kidding you goof. :tongue:

No, but hopefully it will have the ability to dispense tranquilizers, because I could really use them. :D

Hey, my feature suggestions are good ones, no need to shoot those... things... whoa.. so tired.. Zzzzz....

[Axel Wers]

I don't like "new quote". This will big issue on my board, because quote is used very often, and in latest version has lot of bugs and strange behavior. :baby:

:frantics:

[Dmacleo]

ok, first off I will admit to not understanding a lot of the editor stuff so please keep that in mind.

and I apologize if this was asked before, I may have overlooked it.

wouldn't all these issues be solved JUST by using the CKEditor itself as built BY CKEditor?

and, if possible, allowed to update as they update?

what is it about it that requires it to be re-coded and customized?

the media tag setup?

[Wolfie]

wouldn't all these issues be solved JUST by using the CKEditor itself as built BY CKEditor?

[Ryan H.]

ok, first off I will admit to not understanding a lot of the editor stuff so please keep that in mind.

and I apologize if this was asked before, I may have overlooked it.

wouldn't all these issues be solved JUST by using the CKEditor itself as built BY CKEditor?

and, if possible, allowed to update as they update?

what is it about it that requires it to be re-coded and customized?

the media tag setup?

BBCode. That's it.

[Bartosz.Misiak]

Hello guys. There's something wrong with the double enter functionally. It won't split the quote for me most of the time (Chrome 23).

To split the comment, I have to:

1. Press enter
2. Press up arrow to come back to the previous line
3. Press enter again

Then it works, mostly. Sometimes it won't even create a new line when I press enter though.

I would love the new editor if it wasn't for those constant bugs appearing from time to time, proving it unreliable. Catch up with them and it will be perfect. :smile: That is if one can catch up with RTE incompatibilities across different browsers. :)