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Quoting in IPB 3.4, not satisifed

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Once again you've focused on doing "fancy" editor-stuff and moving more away from bbcode and code mode, a choice that I absolutely do not agree on, but I guess that's another debate...

Members on our communities are used to dividing quotes into multiple parts and then answer each part in their own paragraphs. Like this:

Hello, I think ...

Yeah I agree, ...

How do you defend that? ...

Not sure ...

etc.

With this new "fancy stuff" they're not simply able to copy the same quote code multiple times, they need to either write the tags manually themselves or switch editor mode. Not every community quote posts as one big quote. There are a lot of situations where it's best to reply to someone paragraph by paragraph. Or where you need to add more context by quoting more than one level of posts. In those situations you would want the correct name, snapback url etc. to be applied. This current system is less intuitive in my eyes, and I fear that in the future there will be more of gigantic quotes followed by gigantic replies, with less replies divided into paragraphs.

The new quote boxes in the editor also causes it to take up more space, which in turn makes it harder to scroll through it all.

Of course, this could all be solved if you activated buttons in source mode and let members and communities decide for themselves what sort of editor should be standard (To DB, not cookie), but I digress.

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Hit the little light switch and use BBCode if you're happier with that.


You know precisely why that is not a satisfactory response because many of your customers have been telling you over and over for more than a year now, ever since 3.2 was released, including in this thread. We would all be happy to "hit the little light switch and use BBCode", *if* that didn't mean using an editor that is less functional than Notepad or a basic HTML textarea (it still doesn't even wrap words in Chrome!).

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Hit the little light switch and use BBCode if you're happier with that.

for the love of....

Matt, please do tell how it is so hard to insert a bbcode tag into the texarea on a button click.

You are inserting full-fledged HTML, swapping it to bbcode when we change over, and saving that as semi-parsed html in the database already, and parsing it back out when we edit with source mode on.

Do you have an actual reason for pushing this out?

maybe swapping [] for <> finally?

We cannot wait that long. I still fight with this editor. hit italics, start typing, and it loses them after the first word.

Same for bold.

Code is actually quite difficult to manage, and i constantly swap back and forth.

Same for quotes.

Add it, you will have the grateful sighs of thousands of IPB users.

Don't, we will needle you until you do.

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Working with quotes in IPS doesn't work as well as it should. I dont understand why the CKE in IPS is difficult to work with while CKE in other online applications works like a charm.

Hit the little light switch and use BBCode if you're happier with that.

The problem is that users have to do that often, because the quote box quickly disappears when the user deletes a line break or a space, leaving the user confused. The only solution then is to find a little icon which is really unclear in its meaning. A light switch? Doesn't look like it and if it would, it would still make no sense at all.

I think its a stellar idea to allow users to work with html instead of bb code. But only if it works well, is granny-proof and monkey-proof and does not result in that the user is left in confusion.

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quote and code(auto), would help leagues, yes, it really would. :smile:

We're talking stopgaps, those two literally make my head hurt daily here, would be happy to stay in source with them.

I can't do the same for CODE because it relies on PRE which automatically uses newlines and not BR.

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I must be missing the point here - could someone elaborate for me?

In the old RTE, clicking the quote button would insert quote tags which you would then copy and paste stuff into... you can still do that - it just gives you a grey background rather than ugly quote tags. What's the big deal?

In terms of space, the padding is like what, 5px? It's less than a line-height, so if you were giving the quote tags their own lines (which was necessary to format things properly in some circumstances) the new way uses less space.

If you want to type out the tags because you're old skool, what's wrong with the plain textbox mode that the lightswitch provides?

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I must be missing the point here - could someone elaborate for me?

In the old RTE, clicking the quote button would insert quote tags which you would then copy and paste stuff into... you can still do that - it just gives you a grey background rather than ugly quote tags. What's the big deal?

In terms of space, the padding is like what, 5px? It's less than a line-height, so if you were giving the quote tags their own lines (which was necessary to format things properly in some circumstances) the new way uses less space.

Just splitting the post above me into two to make the point...

ok, multi-quote and quote(the actual buttons on the posts) work fine and as expected in the STD.
And no Mark, we do not want to type the tags manually.
We want to be able to reposition and handle the posted content in a mode where we can see what we are actually working with, without the cke getting ahold of and mangling things as we type or attempt to move items in-post.
Typed manually, slowly in STD to prove a point.

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Well. This wont be changed in 3.4.0. That just apparently went final. Maybe in the x.1 release.

There is way too many bugs in this "final" for it to be released like this. If you have "Array" showing up in commonly used places then there's a problem. At least test that much. I still stand by my assertion that IPS does not thoroughly test their products enough.

As for the main topic though another thing to note is that you can't copy and paste quotes in the rte anymore. So if I want to put a quote from someone's post in my sig then I have to switch to raw mode.

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There is way too many bugs in this "final" for it to be released like this. If you have "Array" showing up in commonly used places then there's a problem. At least test that much. I still stand by my assertion that IPS does not thoroughly test their products enough.

As for the main topic though another thing to note is that you can't copy and paste quotes in the rte anymore. So if I want to put a quote from someone's post in my sig then I have to switch to raw mode.

We haven't released it yet.

We release it here for testing. As we've told you numerous times. :smile:

Almost all of the bugs coming in are fixes from 3.3.4 so at this point, regardless of how many bugs are left listed it's more stable than our current version. The bug tracker is only really of use to the team. You shouldn't use it as a barometer of whether a release should be made or not. It is unlikely that we will have a point where we don't have a single bug coming in for a week. That just doesn't happen in software development.

But you know this, as we've been through this before too. :)

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Yes I know. I'm beating a dead horse like the rest of this community. It's satire. You're supposed to laugh. I don't expect a bug free product out of you (I was actually surprised at how long gallery 5.0.3 went without a report) but I do expect obvious ones that come out and slap you in the face to be resolved on a dev site before you push it to here. As we've said before though, that notion is wrong of me. Obviously.

At least I gave you an excuse to ignore the rest of the topic. :P

EDIT: Actually, may I ask you one thing? When you fix a bug on your svn thing (sorry I don't know the details) do you actually go and subsequently check if the bug is actually fixed and check if any related functionality was unaffected? Or do you just say "Well, that looks right and seems ok. What's next?" I'm just wondering. You guys obviously do what's been working for you.

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Could you elaborate on your plans for 4.0 and explain why this would be like a "stop gap" before 4.0? I really hope that you will still keep a source mode available. Our members would hate us for eternity if an upgrade doesn't have an option to edit posts in source mode / bbcode mode at all... Please tell me that the day when IPB stops supporting native bbcode or source mode in the editor never comes?

Link me to an earlier post on the subject if you've already written something about it. For every single upgrade we've done, since you changed your editor from the one you developed in-house we've had complaints about the degrade of source mode and numerous bugs and other sort of issues with the RTE mode. Never received much complaints about it before then..

Not that weird considering nearly 90% of our most active users (that is not an guess number, but retrieved from the database) of our member base used STD before you forced the RTE editor on all in 3.1(?)


We haven't released it yet.


Could you reply to my previous post? I don't want to be surprised and not be able to have a say in future editor changes anymore.

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Uh tsp if you go through Matt's posts you'll discover the desire to move away from "traditional bbcode" and essentially (but not really) allow the posting of html...sort of. I'm still fuzzy on it but it seems interesting. I can find the thread later at a computer. Or you can go through Matt's posts if you're bored. He doesn't post much and he explained the idea to me in a thread a couple months ago.

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I was bored.


Can't link to specific posts on mobile but you'll see on that page that he basically wants to drop bbcode as it will open up the door for more possibilities. Basically bbcode is holding them back and I'm willing to believe that the move forward will be beneficial.

Being able to tear up quotes though is important for my own forum though...If you could just copy and paste quotes in rte it'd be better.

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Hit the little light switch and use BBCode if you're happier with that.


Dear Matt, how can you say this when you have bugs in STD mode that cuts posts? (Yes, I do realize you haven't actually relased 3.4, but still...)

How can you say it when you reply this to a bug report about not being able to manually type things like being "Not a bug" ?

Updating Status to: Not a Bug

You really should either use the editor buttons or use STD mode for BBCode. Since the parser changes, we've made a clearer distinction about where manual tags work.



How can you say it when creators of large posts would have to switch back and forth in order to achieve things?

How can you say it when creators of large posts report that they have an unpleasant experience editing their posts in RTE-mode because images and all kinds of parsed stuff is taking up editor space?

How is this a pleasant experience, to have some things work in one mode and not the other?

Just asking. As I have done for the past versions since 3.1, but in 3.4, you have, so far, broken it even more in my honest opinion.

I wish I could be more forgiving about this Matt, I really wish I could. I wish I could tell all my users that the editor issues will be fixed in the next version, and that no major new problems or usability concerns will be introduced. But I CAN'T.

It's the editor, it's a forum. It should be a pleasant and bug free experience to write posts in a forum. We have thousands of users on all the forums we host, and many of our active users have complained about this since RTE was forced and buttons in source mode disappeared in 3.1. How many does it take before you admit that maybe you took this whole RTE-mode a little too far and should focus on getting the source mode up to date without any issues?

Doing ctrl+a and ctrl+c before submitting because I don't trust the editor one bit...

And why, why did I get random size-tags inserted to my post when switching editor mode now? Just because I wrote ? Really?

Doing ctrl+a and ctrl+c before submitting because I don't trust the editor one bit...


And there we have another bug that must've materialized somehow when I switched mode. Gets better and better. Will have to fix my post now...
edit: post fixed, you can view how it ended up originally here: http://community.invisionpower.com/topic/373132-post-code-from-editor-bug/#entry2335355

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