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All IPB forums breaching EU law


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Tell the UK users to set their browsers preference to accept cookies to "Ask for each site" then it's a mute point... the UK clearly has their head in the sand here without thinking this one through.




I feel compelled to point out that its not UK users and a UK law.

It's EU users and an EU law. The UK had nothing to do with it.

Now carry on. :)
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Regardless of you or me thinking if this is madness or not, for those of here in the UK we have to be at least seen to be trying to find a solution.



Why? You then give tacit support to inane rules. You do realize if you go along with this, nect month, your political overlords will devise some new hoop for you to jump through, for your own good?

Or is this the base difference between being a Citizen or a Subject?
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Apart from the fact that we (UK citizens) generally laugh at EU directives, guidelines, and laws look at the state they're in. They can't agree to stop the EU from collapse let alone what "Cookie Monster" law should be or how they will enforce it.

They passed a directive that English chocolate couldn't be called chocolate because it didn't contain enough Cocoa. They also said that Chocolate biscuits that only had chocolate on one side could not be called Chocolate biscuits. Bananas had to have a specific degree of curve to be acceptable.The list goes on and on.

Why do you think the UK doesn't want to be tied to them more than we already are? Cookie Law? Tell it to the Cookie Monster.


Edit to add.

As an aside, politicians in all "democracies" tend to make law with a view to being re-elected and not for the good of the country they represent or mankind as a whole But the EU takes things to a whole new level. Bureaucracy gone mad!

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My greatest point unto this madness...
http://privacy.micro...gb/default.mspx
http://www.google.co...licies/privacy/
the search engines quite literally do no more than 3.3.2 does in this regard.... no further action should be needed imho.
No swooshing nag panel, no more than a link to the privacy policy on the visited pages, it is NOT being shoved into the guest's face by any means.
Nor is every possible cookie that *can* be set by them listed(that... would be an immense list).

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Why? You then give tacit support to inane rules. You do realize if you go along with this, nect month, your political overlords will devise some new hoop for you to jump through, for your own good?



Or is this the base difference between being a Citizen or a Subject?




What a stupid, unhelpful and pointless reply.

My website is a charity website, so I am doing whatever I have to in order to prevent the charity getting fined in the future.
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What a stupid, unhelpful and pointless reply.



My website is a charity website, so I am doing whatever I have to in order to prevent the charity getting fined in the future.




Yes, compliance is very important. Otherwise you will be punished. Truly a difference between Subjects and Citizens. I appreciate this thread for pointing that out.
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If the EU (a jurisdiction that I do not reside in, pay taxes in andor vote in) wants me to obey their law, then they can come right over and attempt to make me do so. While they're at it, they can also bring China along to make sure I properly filter content, and North Korea too, so that praises of whatever Kim is ruling right now are properly displayed every other paragraph.

Give me a break the size of Hancock's signature on the Declaration of Independence. May the EU need not reach for its spectacles.

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I doubt anyone at all is going to like the simile I am about to draw.... but well, this eats at my brain, which is why I post at 1am.
Why, precisely, are we as humans so willing to do something when it serves our personal interests, and so resistant to something we see no direct benefit for?
Millions of webmasters a day bend over backwards, for a corporation, because they see either perceived or real benefit as a result.
Yes, I speak of Google, our lord and master here in the web.
The EU's desire to educate the user of what that cookie stored in their browser does is misguided, but noble(better handled at the programmatic level's interaction with the browser).
Are we still the same self-serving species that killed a man seeking to do no more than help others 2 millennium ago?
I would like to think not.... but all logic derived from our words and actions on a day-to-day basis speaks quite differently.

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The sky isn't falling.

Take a deep breath and stick the kettle on.

The UK has softened the law for UK site owners. UK owners can use implied consent so I presume (and this isn't legal advice) that all you need to do is just inform users that you're storing cookies and show which cookies are being set. As always, check with your solicitor to be sure.

For those in other parts of the EU: The commission have said many times that they're not out for a witch hunt. If they contact you for non compliance, it won't be to hand out massive fines and jail sentences. They'll offer guidance on what to do to make your site comply.

The bottom line is that IPS cannot be assumed to be an expert in all the various laws around the world. We offer the tools to build a community but you're responsible to ensure that it's legal for your country.

But the sky isn't falling in.

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Here are some solutions "YOU" can do yourself if you don't like the ones already suggested: Seriously, people should get educated on the settings already available in their browsers. It's not that hard to deny regular cookies. I feel bad for those who are under this law. It should be the guests learning a thing or two about setting up their browser and how the internet works. However, I do not think it's IPB's responsibility to do something about this law...nor any other business "YOU" choose to purchase code from. It's the website owner's responsibility to make their own sites legal. If you require extra code to comply with laws, you should either hire a programmer to do it or find some code already available somewhere else if you are unable to do it yourself. Maybe you'll get lucky here and someone will whip something up and put it in the marketplace.

[*]Don't use anything that uses cookies. Go back to straight html. Say goodbye to user interactions as you currently know them. [*]Use an html page for your frontpage. Move your community to a sub-folder. Password protect your entire community using htaccess on that subfolder. On the frontpage, tell users the password and tell them what cookies your site will delight them with. Say goodbye to any rankings you had in the search engines.









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That's not actually true, the directive applies to any website being used by EU citizens. Clearly though if your business is outside of the EU and has no legal entity in the EU then then it's going to be hard to enforce it, but if you're based in Europe and your users are coming from the EU then it doesn't matter where your servers are hosted.



http://eucookiedirec...ing-outside-eu/

How can EU law apply outside the EU... good luck enforcing that, I think hard is an understatement, it will be impossible.
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I would like to think not.... but all logic derived from our words and actions on a day-to-day basis speaks quite differently.




Marcher, read the story about what happened in the aftermath of the New Orleans flood a few year back, and you will see exactly what happens with human nature, once the fluff has been stripped away.
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I've already had a few members complaining about how my site is illegal in the EU months back.

I simply told them I can't be held accountable for their own countries ignorance, and that they are responsible for understanding their own countries laws and regulations before registering for or using my site in any way. I'm surely not going to be held accountable for the laws of a country I do not reside in, especially when they're ridiculous.

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Comply with stupid laws of another country? Thats a laugh.



What next? an Opt-in for logging an IP address?




It's not a country, it's a continent wide law (all EU nations, which is much of Europe). I have asked IPB to provide a full list of cookies and what they do, they have refused. That is a simple software service support request and not a request to help implement the law. So whilst I will not go as far as the original thread starter and say IPB is breaking the law, I accept that is my responsibility to comply with my local law, what I will say is that IPB are being obstinate and unhelpful to help those of us in the EU trying to comply with the law.

If the same law is applied to the US at some point you will have the same problem, so just get ahead of the game and help us now, or are you saying your customers in Europe do not matter?

All we need is a simple list of the cookies that the standard forum software (without mods) will possibly place on a users machine, that is not an unreasonable request, and I consider it a simple support request, but IPB refuse to answer it in support, and have told me to post a feedback post on here.... which is there way of ignoring the problem.

Yes I am coming across angry, because IPB have refused to help when I pay good money to get support.
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Honestly, if it is an EU thing only, wait a month or two, with Greece slinking out, Spain, Italy and maybe a handful of other EU member states might be leaving also. The EU might be a distant memory a year form now, along with their silly edicts.

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I'm looking to set up a new forum and came here to evaluate my options (with IPB top of the list). I thought I'd better log in rather than lurk any more because this thread is of importance on my list of 'must haves'.
If IPB aren't going to divulge info about cookies, I can't see how I'm going to be able to justify selecting it which is such a shame. :(

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It's not a country, it's a continent wide law (all EU nations, which is much of Europe). I have asked IPB to provide a full list of cookies and what they do, they have refused. That is a simple software service support request and not a request to help implement the law. So whilst I will not go as far as the original thread starter and say IPB is breaking the law, I accept that is my responsibility to comply with my local law, what I will say is that IPB are being obstinate and unhelpful to help those of us in the EU trying to comply with the law.



If the same law is applied to the US at some point you will have the same problem, so just get ahead of the game and help us now, or are you saying your customers in Europe do not matter?



All we need is a simple list of the cookies that the standard forum software (without mods) will possibly place on a users machine, that is not an unreasonable request, and I consider it a simple support request, but IPB refuse to answer it in support, and have told me to post a feedback post on here.... which is there way of ignoring the problem.



Yes I am coming across angry, because IPB have refused to help when I pay good money to get support.




I know it's not a country. My comment is general and isn't directed soley at this law. No one has to follow laws of another country/group of countries/whatever if neither they nor they website resides in that country.

Asking how IPB works is not a 'support request'. Support is for website problems or setup help... not for explaintions of inner workings, thats what the forum is for.

This topic should be named 'My forum is breaching EU Law' since it is each websites owner's responsibility to follow their own laws.

IPS don't need to do anything. It's a bonus for you if they do, do something.

Lucky this law doesn't apply to me.
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heres the thing... listing a user's cookies for the site, providing a language-abstracted explanation of what that cookie does and the current value... that is relatively easy(hook ;) ).
listing every cookie in the core? anyone feel like playing fileHunt or browse for cookies? got apps/mods? most of them will have cookies, I'll bet you that.
Any pre-emptive non-dynamic list would be immense, and would require an insane amount of admin maintenance.

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