Alfa1 Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 This topic is flowing quite fast and I am not receiving notifications of new replies. Its clear that I can just remove supermod from the supermod group and then create a new supermoderator group. Is it possible to have two supermoderator group with the same name and then delete the original supermoderator group? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aiwa Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 This topic is flowing quite fast and I am not receiving notifications of new replies. Its clear that I can just remove supermod from the supermod group and then create a new supermoderator group. Is it possible to have two supermoderator group with the same name and then detle the original supermoderator group? Yes, groups are based on ID, not name. They can have the same name and different perms. That's not a problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aiwa Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 Sjv, I apologize for my earlier comment. Let me say it better... IP.Board works the way it works. Feedback to tailor it to your needs is one thing, but it's not something that is going to be implemented tomorrow so you can use it. We are trying to explain how to configure your board, based on currently available permission setups so you can achieve what you're looking for now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcher Technologies Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 If I came off at all rude myelf, I apologize extremely, I was simply(and exuberantly) trying to get the point across that you quite factually have more granular control over it with how IPB has it separated, rather than the 'oh, you are admin, so the front-end is an oyster to pluck' of VB/WP and such. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B.Money Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 I have a question... I sure hope i didn't miss this point when reading over these latest points. I switched the original global mods group to regular mods without hard delete like mentioned. One glaring issue to me is, I don't believe I have an option to allow them to edit members profiles, maybe signatures, and status updates. Things get more confusing when explaining to them how to give warning or flagging for spam to users, because they cannot do it by clicking on the user profile. They must do it from the users actual post, + for flag as spammer, requiring mods to hover over their name for the flag option to be visible. That was a headache trying to explain to mods, as they would click the name instead of hover, end up in their profile view and see nothing, since this type of global moderation is outside of their abilities. :D Maybe I'm just missing these options to allow my mods to globally moderate (profiles and status updates) without turning them into a super moderator. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aiwa Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 Editing a member is something that require Super Moderator. <if test="canEditMember:|:$this->memberData['g_is_supmod']"> Like Marcher explained before, Super Moderator is a 'global' moderation group. They can moderate in apps that don't have a moderation structure. In the case of editing a member via the ModCP, that's the "Members" App that doesn't have a moderation setup and simply uses the Super Mod flag to determine if you can edit a member. It would be nice if more front end member moderation could be given out. There are 3rd party apps that allow you to edit member profiles. Search for 'Enhanced Member Edit' in the Marketplace. That might do what you're needing to do for the time being. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alfa1 Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 Editing a member is something that require Super Moderator. <if test="canEditMember:|:$this->memberData['g_is_supmod']"> Like Marcher explained before, Super Moderator is a 'global' moderation group. They can moderate in apps that don't have a moderation structure. In the case of editing a member via the ModCP, that's the "Members" App that doesn't have a moderation setup and simply uses the Super Mod flag to determine if you can edit a member. It would be nice if more front end member moderation could be given out. There are 3rd party apps that allow you to edit member profiles. Search for 'Enhanced Member Edit' in the Marketplace. That might do what you're needing to do for the time being. Could you explain what apps do not have a moderating structure? Can moderators not warn members from profile? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aiwa Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 Note, if you enable this moderators will have warn permissions on any users, regardless of forum. They will only see the warn links within the forums they can moderate, but will not be restricted from warning any member. I think the blurb next to the setting says it best... As the member profile is in the 'Members' app, it only looks for is the user a super mod... There are no tiered permissions... So your moderators will only see the warn option for user in the forums they can moderate. Though they can warn anyone that isn't in a protected group. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alfa1 Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 OK. If only supermoderators can warn from profile then its needed to have supermoderators that can not hard delete. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bfarber Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 We are intending to put some effort into moderators in the 4.0 Suite. I don't know that we will necessarily hit everyone's requests in this thread, but it is an area we intend to work on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aiwa Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 OK. If only supermoderators can warn from profile then its needed to have supermoderators that can not hard delete. I'd rather see a permission setup for Members so you can assign a 'moderator' that isn't a super mod to manage members. There are a 'couple' settings already, flag as spammer and warn, but that doesn't cover the vast majority of what managing members entails... Moderating sigs, about me's, display names, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alfa1 Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 I can see the usefulness in that. As long as I can keep my supermoderators global moderating permissions without the ability to destroy data, then I am happy. And if IPS4 will not allow this, then I will need to create the functionality. But its quite basic functionality, so would be good to have in the stock feature set. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feld0 Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 And so can a normal 'moderator' if you assign a single group to have moderating powers over all those forums / categories... You don't have to set them up individually.. You select everything you want, then assign the group as moderator to them, set up the permissions once and it's set... Just add users to the group you used... If they are indeed super moderators (box checked for the group), then they have hard delete permissions... You can create a 'psuedo super' moderator that has permissions in ALL forums / categories, but has the one restriction of not being able to hard delete... So they can moderate everywhere a REAL supermoderator can, but you can restrict a couple permissions if you like... Yes. uncheck the super moderator checkbox for the group. Then go to ACP > Forums. Select ALL of the forums and go to the bottom of the page and assign that group to be the moderator for them. Set up your permissiona accordingly. Allows you to re-purpose your existing group. You do indeed have a use for Super Moderator. Your admin acount, that has super moderator checked, gives you that power. So if you try and restrict Super Moderator, you would also restrict your Admin account (that has super mod checked) What is being asked for is not so much to add options to configure exactly what the "Super Moderator" checkbox does, but rather to remove "front end god" mode in favour of a proper moderation structure in each and every single app. For IPS's own apps, I believe this is a reasonable request to make for the 4.x series. If proper hierarchical moderation becomes a requirement for apps, third-party developers will adapt to it when they update their apps for 4.x. Essentially, the request is to deprecate the "is this user a super moderator?" checks suite-wide, and replace each of them with "is this user allowed to perform this action?" checks. As B.Money pointed out, many actions currently exist which can be performed only by designated super moderators. I have run into this same issue myself and am sure that other admins have as well. I have a question... I sure hope i didn't miss this point when reading over these latest points. I switched the original global mods group to regular mods without hard delete like mentioned. One glaring issue to me is, I don't believe I have an option to allow them to edit members profiles, maybe signatures, and status updates. Things get more confusing when explaining to them how to give warning or flagging for spam to users, because they cannot do it by clicking on the user profile. They must do it from the users actual post, + for flag as spammer, requiring mods to hover over their name for the flag option to be visible. That was a headache trying to explain to mods, as they would click the name instead of hover, end up in their profile view and see nothing, since this type of global moderation is outside of their abilities. Maybe I'm just missing these options to allow my mods to globally moderate (profiles and status updates) without turning them into a super moderator. These actions can be found in both first- and third-party apps alike. It is only by deprecating the ability to create "is this user a super moderator?" checks that all developers, both IPS and third-parties, will be forced to adopt a proper, configurable moderation scheme that is consistent with the rest of the platform. Normally, such a change would immediately render a lot of apps incompatible with the IPS framwework; but as much of the codebase is being refactored and most apps will need updates to work with 4.x anyway, this is the perfect opportunity to throw that checkbox out and add "check user permissions properly for all moderation actions" to the list of necessary changes to update an app for compatibility. As far as "god mode" is concerned (which can be desirable in some scenarios, don't get me wrong), IP.Suite 4.x's default "Moderators" group can ship with each and every permission enabled. If each possible moderator action is enumerated and made configurable, the "front-end god" checkbox will be entirely unnecessary and could be removed. The crux of the problem is that there are many abilities, like editing profiles, member titles, signatures, issuing profile warnings, moderating status updates, and many others which are available only in the all-powerful "super moderator" package; and I'd wager to say that these uncontrollable abilities have only slipped in because the framework permits them to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avro Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 We are intending to put some effort into moderators in the 4.0 Suite. I don't know that we will necessarily hit everyone's requests in this thread, but it is an area we intend to work on. Granularity is what is needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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