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Well I am "hoping" to release this next version for 3.3 and 3.4 at the same time (as two separate downloads), but then after that I will just have all future versions be for 3.4 is absically what i meant. I was just trying to get some of this into a 3.3 version where people who don't want to use 3.4 for a while will get some of these changes, but I can't keep releasing one for both each time or it will get really annoying keeping track of it. Nobody is answering me in the contributor forum as to some confusion I have with some 3.4 changes either, so I have to look at their files and figure it out myself apparently. Been quite a few days and nobody answers. Blah.

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If I allow for dropping out or kicking out after a tournament starts... I wodner how I should handle that. I am thinking some adming may not want anyone to be able to drop out. Plus I thought about allowing for new teams to be added to ongoing tournaments which normally wouldn't allow anyone to join anymore, but would if you have a team who was deleted. I'm thinking, hoenstly, it would just be more trouble than it's worth to add replacement teams though, because what tournament IRL, after already beginning, randomly has a team repalced with another??? the only reasonable way is to keep it as forfeiting instead. But what if someone gets a friend to join a tournament and purposely lose or purposely get deleted or something? There are all kinds of scenarios, but I guess that could happen no matter what safeguards are used.

Also deciding if I should make a setting for a public side admin group for the app where those people can kick someone out of any tournament, not just the tournament runners. Because as it is now the admin could really just delete them form the ACP, which is different than kicking out. Or I guess i could just make a new area in the ACP for kicking out...

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ok I have the backend set up to where it should be no problem expanding the drop out and kick out methods. or I may only expand the kick out one and make it where you can't voluntarily drop out. Not sure yet. I'm also trying to decide whether to have it drop the count of current teams in the tournament, where if the time hasn't run out, someone could join to replace them. But really that would only be an option for a ladder anyway. Personally I think it should not allow a new team to replace them... Also deciding whether or not to show removed teams in standings or just have them totally removed and disallowed from winning, which is probably what I should do.

I have it wehre if the team was removed, they do not have that tournament show on their team page anymore (deleted teams wont have a team page, but i mean for ones kicked out and not deleted).

I think I am going to change the ACP delete function to where you can mark kick out or delete all on the same form where you can have it do either one.

Still planning to release this both for 3.3 and 3.4 by this weekend or Mondayy most likely.

This has eben a tad tedious updating everythign to allow for this, so hopefully I don't end up finding bugs. I had to make a lot of decisions too. Gor instance, in some palces it treats a deleted team as still in it, such as the tournament join function, thatw ay the same team can't join again. But in other palces it ahs to be considered deleted absically. So I had to go through every file changing a lot of things.

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If anyone complains about my decisions on this, I will simply say oh well and link to this page to back up my point that nobody answers e wehn they do have the chance to give their opinions. That's why things get done however and then either people like it or not, but they don't then get changed in 2 days once someoen complains.

At this point, here is how things are going to work:

1. if a team is deleted then it vasically gives all members their points back if they paid any to join (since deleting a team is not ALWAYS a punishment). If the team is in a tournament it will leave the row there, but mark it as deleted. It will still show them having the same wins and losses and whatnot, but will NOT pay them or declare them a winner if they are ranked at the top. I believe I have it where on the tournament page it will not even list them, so their wins and losses are really just technically still there, but not showing up as being in the tournament anyway. All challenges involving the team are marked completed where they disappear form anyone's view. Matches which had been begun will still show up, but now the other person can push it through without the deleted team having to confirm it.

2. Kicking out is going to be allowed even during a tournament. If done before it starts, it will just remove them totally. If the tournament has started it will be basically like when a team is deleted, only it won't delete the team. Matches and challenges and all that stuff will be handled the same though.

3. I am probably not going to allow teams to just flat leave in the middle of a tournament though. If they so badly want to elave I guess they'll have to get the tournament runner or an admin to either kick them out (I am going to add kicking out to the ACP) or delete their team.

So really I guess there's not much I am asking for feedback on anyway. I guess the only thing I am deciding is whether or not it should still show the deleted teams in the standings. I am thinking that shouldn't happen though, actually.

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well I think if they are removed by an admin then it shouldnt show them in the standings because normally it will be due to breaking rules of the tournament. However I think if the team removes itself it should be listed as forfeit in the tournament standings maybe show up in red or something and then if an admin chooses to he can just completely remove the team from the standings should it be like a challenge tournament and they allow one or two of the members to come back and make a team.

Also would it be possible to set up sponsored/ non sponsored teams? Sponsored would basically be how it is now with the team page and all, and be able to select which usergroups can join a sponsored team, promote leaders and what not.

And then non sponsored would be they just make the team but dont have a team page so if its not a permanent team but can still compete in some tournaments selected by the admins.

Just idea let me know if I explained that strangely lol.

I would have been giving feedback just been really busy lately.

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Update: what a headache adding all of this. :p It's not "difficult" as much as it's just so tedious and tons of things to think about. For instance I amde it keep the teams' rows IN the database for tournaments, despite teams being deleted, and kept their wins and losses in that row in tact (in case i decide to do something which needs them later on), BUT I luckily remembered that for ladders it needed to reorder all the remaining teams to get their position in the ladder to be accurate. But if a team is KICKED or if a tournament has not STARTED then it will just delete the row totally. In some areas it has to do thigns one way, in others it needs to do it another way, it's just a big mess. I'm done other than I ened to add a kick out feature in the ACP, but I sure hope I don't run into bugs.... which I probably will as much code as I had to change aroudn in such different ways.

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No problem. It;s just a few certain people who kept complaining how certain things were handled, but then they are never answering when I asktheir advice. You weren't complaining.

If I add what you requested it will have to be a while down the road because it's too much to do for this particular release to get out by next week, due to the time I have. A lot of things I add sooner if people want it badly enough to pay for it to be added custom, but otherwise some things have to wait where I can get things released. For instance, after I add the ACP kickout feature I am PROBABLY done with what i would be releasing, other than testing, but someone is paying me to add some other things in.

As far as the standings, though, for now I have it where it doesn't show them in the standings. And it reorders the others. I can see some advantages to doing it either way, but some will dislike either way. If I decide to change it then I don't have to do too much changing, but at this point I figure it's best not showing them. Other than in matches theyw ere involved in it will still show and basically give their old name without a link or in some cases just say "deleted team" or "unknown". Just different ways in different places.

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I think I'm going to skip adding admin ability to kick out... I doubt it's needed in any hurry. In most cases if someone eneds to be kicked out the tournament manager would do it anyway... And I had thought about allowing admins to kick people off teams, but then remembered that is already a feature, but is just in the ACP for them.

ANwyay, if there's a good reason to have ACP kicking out I would add it at some point, but it's not likely that an admin would say to kick someone out and the tournament manager refuse to do it... speaking of which there should be a feature at some point to change who the tournament manager is.

I also keep thinking of other things to maybe add, but no point slowing it up for that. I will release this some time next week regardless, assuming aliens don't abduct me.

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Well hopefully the aliens dont abduct you and switching tournament manager would definitely be a good idea to add sometime. Do you have rates for custom work because we would really be interested in funding some features if and when you have the time. If you will please stay in touch with me through PM. I definitely think this could end up being one of the number 1 applications developed for IP.

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Man, this site has been barely useable all weekend.

As I typed many times, but couldn't ever get it to post..., it justd epends on what the feature is, how long overall it would take, whether it can be in the main download or has to be only for one site, etc. I usually try to estimate how long something will take, but then I may charge anywhere form $20-$40 per hour. And sometimes I take longer than I thought, but if I already said a price was definite then I don't go up on it, so sometimes it ends up being hardly anything per hour due to me misestimating. haha.

I actually think I may not do any custom work unless the person wanting it oks it being in the main app when I'm done with it because otherwise I would have to either maintain multiple zips or would have to use a hook system like IPS. I am GUESSING I could easily use the IPS hook system, but have not tried it beofere (in my own files themselves).

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I keep wanting to add more things, but I am just going to have to wait about those. I justw ant to get this out for 3.3 and then be done with it and do 3.4. I don't want to make a separate test site, so I need to finish this where I can move all apps over to 3.4. I hate to be done with 3.3, but not much choice. If someone finds bugs or wants a new feature after this release, they're just going to have to update to board 3.4.

When I release this 3.3 one I MAY release the same thing for 3.4, or I may add a few more features and then release the 3.4 one. One main thing I want to do is something to allow for correcting accidental incorrectly sent scores. I don't know that it's necessarily "needed", because just like if you totally delete a topic (now with not rash can forum anymore), thre is no "undo", sometiems there just is no undo and you have to be careful when submitting scores. Really not sure if i will add that or not... definitely too much hassle to add in this final 3.3 version, though.

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Actually, this already works with 3.4... So since the changes to have it use new functions are unimportant now, i may just keep releasing ones that work with both 3.3 and 3.4 rather than making it work with only 3.4. The "legacy functions" will work until at least ip.board 4.0, apparently, so why rush into changing things to work ONLY with 3.4? Then again, I may switch it over to only 3.4 soon rather than just wait around too long.

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yeah it's related to some attacks they had and then they had to aggressively stop it from happening and so a lot of people who are normal memebrs were having their access changed as well if you did x clicks in y amount of time. That's why I wasn't able to post much either.

Well I'm still figuring I will be done tomorrow, but I'll probably let the guy who paid me for some custom work test it first in case i miss something in testing it. So could be tomorrow that it is on this site or maybe Tuesday. This has been so so stressful. It took me MUCH longer than expected to code some things and it's a nightmare making sure all the checks ae right because this app has so many things to check in so many different configurations.

I just went through the admin files going through changes and seeing if it looked right and i noticed some important typos and fixed those. Also I made it where when deleting a member from a team it decreases their tournament count in the members table by however many active tournaments they were in which did NOT yet start. And for members added to a team during active tournaments it will increase that count in the members table. Most members table stats for this app are not even used, but just in case it's eneded in the future for some reason....

So tomorow I just have to look through a few public files and then actually test a few features and then I'm done. Some will likely want things handled differently than I will have them, so may change things around in another version.

I had to make so many tough decisions. For now i decided to have it where a lot of checks are still done when adding or removing members, teams, etc... in the ACP, but some checks are ignored, allowing an admin to push people through who would be turned down on the public side.

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Well I've tested most things, but this is a headache to test due to so many features to consider.

Also i really should put something explaining how certain features work because there are a lot of confusing count changes... to the point of confusing ME also.

For example, if you leave a tournament, get kicked out, or have your team deleted while in some "not yet started" tournaments, then each member's tournaments count is decreased in the members table. But if you are in ongoing tournaments it does NOT decrease because it's considered you did participate in the tournament.

When you leave a team yourself, I noticed I have it deduct points from the team, but not give them back to the member. I need to either have it do both or neither. I consider when you leave a team on your own that it's your choice and you should not get points back, so I may just have it not deduct them from the team anymore.

So there's a lot of complicated decisions which some may like and some may not, but not everyone can be pleased, obviously.

Also some things kind of conflict. If you kick a team out of a tournament it gives points back as if it's not a punishment, but it will not let you rejoin, so it considers it a punishment in that regard...

I forgot to update some things in the invite functions, so still have to do that and test a few more things.

Also I really need to think of what to do when someone wants to delete a team and it would lower the team count too low in a tournament. I guess i would have to make it where the remaining 1 team automatically gets the win or else maybe make it where you can't delete a team when only two teams are in a tournament. And there are some thigns to look at brackets involving too low of counts, how deleted teams are handled, etc...

But anyway so I probably only have another hour or two of testing to do when I get back to testing.

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Ha. I forgot the invite to team feature I added long ago was still not released yet either, so that's another feature this will have which hadn't been in it before. One guy did already have it.... unfortunately the guy who never finished paying me for some stuff.

By the way, in case any of you have problems with this site still, create a ticket in your client area and you can give your ip address to get whitelisted.

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What a mess... Like I've said before, there are so so so many decisions which could be liked by some and not others and really I rarely get feedback in here about them and then people complain when I make a choice they could have told me not to make. The latest choices I made are: 1. if a team is deleted or leaves a tournament BEFORE it is started, but AFTER registrations end, i treat it the same as if the ttournament already began. So it basically does not set it up to let someone else replace them. If they leave BEFORE registrations end AND before the tournament starts, then it removes them totally rather than consider them forfeiting. 2. If a team leaves a tournament on their own BEFORE it starts and before registrations end, the team gets their entry points back. Otherwise they do not. If a team is deleted via the ACP, the team gets points back no matter what, as they also do if a tournament leader/runner kicks them out.

There are tons of complicated decisions like these. People are going to think there are bugs even when there aren't because so many things are purposely handled differently depending on circumstances. Also i did not make a feature to stop a team from leaving or being kicked out when theya re the last team remaining. If someone is dumb enough to leave a tournament when they are the only team left, before being declared the winner, then oh well..... I'm sure nobody will ever end up with only one team in an ongoing tournament with registrations stopped anyway.

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I'm going to try to be done with this today, even if I can't release it then, where I can consider it reelased on 12/12/12 and call it version 1.1.1. lol I was originally going toc all it 1.1.0, but technically one user has already used a version I called that. With new features added since that one normally I would call it 1.2.0, but oh well I want it to have that interesting version number.

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Well it will for sure be uploaded within a couple days. I got back in that habit of giving estimated dates and then missing them...., but now I got to the point where nothing else is being added so all I have to do is test for probably an hour and then it's done. I'm probably giving it to the person who paid custom first and then will upload it here either tomorrow or this weekend.

There is still a lot more I want to do with it so I won't even take much of a break before working on yet another version. And man I REALLY need to overhaul some of this. I have a similar function done over and over and over where I have to keep going through the files changing each part. You're supposed to try to have only one function for that type of thing, which would be so much easier to modify, but originally I did it this lame way because they are somewhat different.... but they;r'e so similar I should have just made ONE function and let it work for each one. So bottom lne, for the next version or one after that I need to simplify my code!

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ok I'm done. I seriously spent tons of hours just TESTING thigns and it was beyond stressful. It's not likely I'll magically get a ton more sale, but I just always stress myself to death trying to get things as perfect, especially bug-wise, as I can, no matter if it gains me anything or not. ANd I think I find a lot more bugs than the average programmer because I think of so many combinations of things to test. But it takes forever! Good thing I did spend so much time, as I found a lot of bugs as this was so complicated it was juste asy to make mistakes. All programs have bugs, so it's impossible that I found every one of them, but I worked like crazy trying to....

A couple of known "somewhat" bugs which will still be in it, but mostly just chocies, rather than bugs:

1. If you delete a member of a team during an ONGOING tournament and then add him/her BACK while that SAME tournament is still active it's going to mess up his/her tournaments_joined count in the members table. SERIOUSLY, there should not be much of anyr eason to do that, so I didn't want to slow up the release for something that dumb. And thus far that count is never EVER used in the app other than just being stored in case I use it later on in the future, so nobody will even see that it's incorrect AND they would have to do this dumbness to even have it happen anyway. And it's basically just counting them as having joined TWO tournaments for that same one tournament, but in a way they joined two anyway as they joined and left, joined again.

2. Eh... I already forgot this one. lol

Anyway probably still giving it to the guy who paid for some of the custom parts first and then will upload it ehre in a day or so probably. And, by the way, I am changing how I handle custom work for this app as I've had too many cases of getting way underpaid for things. Whether it be my fault or others'. Usually it's part both, other than last time someone didn't even ever pay me. And really it's wayyyyy underappreciated that i put in so many more hours than expected, in order to improve some things. As if it wasn't bad enough spending so many hours to begin with. So basically from now on I am being way more careful what i quote prices as and if I go too high, I can always charge less in the end, and also unless you want to pay a lot per hour, you have to let me put them in hthe main app as well. Too much trouble keeping track of multiple copies. And I'm sure not waiting until after the work to get paid. Twice people just never paid me. lol

Just kind of annoying to put so many hours in and people still end up complaining every time! I planned on spending one hour last night/this morning on testing and i spent probably 8-10 hours! Ity's very stressful when not being planned to last that long.

Oh also I have to write up a changelog and maybe even explain some features befroe publicly uploading it.

edit: here's how stressed I was. I just walked outside for a few minutes in shorts with it 1 degree above freezing. lol Anyway well off to sleep. I will write up all the new features and upload it later.

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