Suggestion! in the features

[Chito]

This is Business 101 stuff guys.

Social media integration and innovations are the new "thing." If you're a professional with any level of talent you should know fads are important to keep up with in this rapidly-changing online world. Being able to keep up with what your users want is the mark of a successful business. I don't understand how there is any controversy about this.

If chickens became the new "thing," guess what? You should put chickens on your site! Going against that concept is like saying you don't want to make money. The same applies to social media. It's not about what you think; it's about what the customer think. If you can't keep up, too bad; the competition will.

Totally agree, very well said Neosoph.

Many Owners/Admins (yes, even myself) have made the mistake of sometimes forgetting who we're doing all this for. Is it for what's best for ourselves or for what's best for our member base? I've heard many customers say that they totally hate Facebook and/or Twitter and that they would never implement feature on their boards that imitate those social networks. But as Neosoph pointed out "It's not about what we think, it's about what our customers/members think". We owe it to them to stay up-to-date on what they like and what's being used now in this Internet-based world we live in.

[CherryGirl69]

I would like to have a intro page like I said earlier it would have a social media feel to it but don't know if it is possible!

[TSilva]

This is Business 101 stuff guys.

Social media integration and innovations are the new "thing." If you're a professional with any level of talent you should know fads are important to keep up with in this rapidly-changing online world. Being able to keep up with what your users want is the mark of a successful business. I don't understand how there is any controversy about this.

Not all of us cater to the lowest common denominator,

Get out of this industry.

Pray tell... what industry are you reffering to? There is a forum industry? Oh man, I have been doing it wrong all these years!

[7SiN]

Not all of us cater to the lowest common denominator,

Pray tell... what industry are you reffering to? There is a forum industry? Oh man, I have been doing it wrong all these years!

Maybe you actually have to read and comprehend before commenting. Just saying...

[Christophe]

Christophe had a grudge towards facebook because of how little respect they have for user privacy and it sounded like that was the reason he didn't want facebook features to be added to IPB.

No, I simply have a grudge towards Facebook. As for IPB they are welcome to present any new feature they deem worth to add to the product but one must keep in mind that this like/dislike must be there for a purpose. Just being able to 'like' or 'dislike' something in itself is meaningless. It needs to have an impact or serve a purpose that benefits the community.

just being able to 'like' something in itself to me has little value. Then you could also have 'likes' for topic titles, names, city or birth, country of birth etc...with the content of a post being only able to 'like' the content as facebook does is stupid as it does not represent a true score on the value of the content itself. If Palin for example says something stupid on her facebook, you can only 'like' that content and not be able to rate it down or comment on it without having your post removed. This is why I personally much prefer the up/down system of Youtube as it provides either no comment/ratings or both or just one but it does not go half ass and only offer to rate things up if you like them.

Community features must provide a real benefit to the community as a whole. Only being able to rate things up only provides benefits to the content holder being rated and not to the community as a whole. If you say something stupid I should be able to give you feedback about it and not be limited to only rating things up when I agree or like them.

my 2 cents
tldr: ratings should always provide up and down not only up ala facebook

EDIT: as for "If chickens became the new "thing," guess what? You should put chickens on your site! Going against that concept is like saying you don't want to make money. The same applies to social media."
I disagree as well. There are many, many companies that for no other reason that it is a trend are putting facebook feeds on their homepage. That does NOT mean it is valuable or has any real benefits. Sometimes it is worth not following the trend if the trend is just stupid and serves no other purpose and gives no benefits to the customers.

Think of it as companies that put that cellphone square capture thingy whose name I can t remember now. You know those black and white squares that link you to a website. Well I have seen Fox doing that on their website...putting one of those ON THEIR F*ING website instead of using a URL. That is a clear example of having derps in charge of your marketing and brand. Why would you snap an image on a website to launch an application on your phone that will redirect you to a URL? Its plain stupid and demonstrates that these people had no idea what they were doing and followed the trend without understanding it and for this they win a retard medal which THEN is detrimental to their brand and business.

So no its not always good to follow the trend imo...but hey that s just my opinion, I could be wrong

[7SiN]

The problem with having an up/down system is that there is "negativity" behind it. That negativity is also used against persons that certain people don't like as well. I use to have an up/down system, I removed it because it was being abused and only allowed staff and then created a separate group taht we felt was mature enough to handle it to be able ot use it. Well...that was too much for them to handle so now we are moving to the 'like' system once IPB 3.2 comes out. That way everything is more positive and people can't "down rate" you if they simply don't like you despite your actual content.

If used properly (which IPB hasn't used properly IMO), the like system can be a very powerful tool, not only for a user feeling good about himself/herself for posting something people like, but also as a tool to help people find content that is worthy of reading and is accurate. I have plans for how this can actually work great for admins and allowing the end user find the content that suits them best. Will be testing out in the months to come and will be closely watching my analytics data.

[AlexJ]

I only see few communities, where they allow negative reputation. With negative reputation people go hostile.

Personally, I feel youtube comments are more of a joke. Thumbs up and thumbs down also has no value when you can create fake accounts and keep doing it yourself. More or less, youtube is filled with thumbs up whore.

I personally don't care what feature comes from where. I run forums for other people and not for myself only. If users are happy, then I am. My only goal is to make content easily accessible to them if needed and make forum more and more user friendly.

IMO I like the reputation system on slickdeals. It keeps track of user who gived you reputation, for what topic/post and what reasons.

[Tanax]

No, I simply have a grudge towards Facebook. As for IPB they are welcome to present any new feature they deem worth to add to the product but one must keep in mind that this like/dislike must be there for a purpose. Just being able to 'like' or 'dislike' something in itself is meaningless. It needs to have an impact or serve a purpose that benefits the community.

just being able to 'like' something in itself to me has little value. Then you could also have 'likes' for topic titles, names, city or birth, country of birth etc...with the content of a post being only able to 'like' the content as facebook does is stupid as it does not represent a true score on the value of the content itself. If Palin for example says something stupid on her facebook, you can only 'like' that content and not be able to rate it down or comment on it without having your post removed. This is why I personally much prefer the up/down system of Youtube as it provides either no comment/ratings or both or just one but it does not go half ass and only offer to rate things up if you like them.

Community features must provide a real benefit to the community as a whole. Only being able to rate things up only provides benefits to the content holder being rated and not to the community as a whole. If you say something stupid I should be able to give you feedback about it and not be limited to only rating things up when I agree or like them.

my 2 cents

tldr: ratings should always provide up and down not only up ala facebook

You are completely correct that every feature must have a meaning. Unfortunately you have misunderstood the meaning of the like feature.
That feature builds upon the way we humans think and associates things with another. We can basically say that it's a psychologically pleasing feature. What it does is that it makes us humans recieve good feedback from other users and therefore will be encouraged to post more.

It also provides users an easy way of agreeing with a post or provide a "hey I'm taking your side in this" without actually having to reply just to say "agreed".

With that said though, the like system can probably be expanded into a "dislike" aswell and I would have no problems if that would be added to IPB. However, in my experience, whenever we activated negative reputation it was severely abused and we had to deactivate it again. I will not be activating a dislike if it were to be added.

[Neosoph]

Not all of us cater to the lowest common denominator,

Denomination is irrelevant to my explication. What I said applies to all forms of business; whether it's selling a Lexus or selling office supplies. Also, social media is not reflective of any hierarchy of people. It is merely a modern tool used to connect people. Everyone uses it; both rich AND poor.

Just being able to 'like' or 'dislike' something in itself is meaningless. It needs to have an impact or serve a purpose that benefits the community.

This is a good point. From a standpoint of functionality, the "like" feature doesn't do much. On facebook, the like feature reflects social acceptance, relevancy, and reputation. Here it seems to be a flimsy "lets see how many people will click this" button.

However, I can see why Invision would implement this feature if the majority of it's customer-base wanted it. The real question is how to take this popularized button and make it a more functional and desirable feature suitable for forums. I believe Invision's core intent was to pioneer this new trendy idea of integration (which is an intelligent business strategy).

I disagree as well. There are many, many companies that for no other reason that it is a trend are putting facebook feeds on their homepage. That does NOT mean it is valuable or has any real benefits. Sometimes it is worth not following the trend if the trend is just stupid and serves no other purpose and gives no benefits to the customers.

Think of it as companies that put that cellphone square capture thingy whose name I can t remember now. You know those black and white squares that link you to a website. Well I have seen Fox doing that on their website...putting one of those ON THEIR F*ING website instead of using a URL. That is a clear example of having derps in charge of your marketing and brand. Why would you snap an image on a website to launch an application on your phone that will redirect you to a URL? Its plain stupid and demonstrates that these people had no idea what they were doing and followed the trend without understanding it and for this they win a retard medal which THEN is detrimental to their brand and business.

So no its not always good to follow the trend imo...but hey that s just my opinion, I could be wrong

We are not on the same page. By social media I mean share/like buttons, social bookmarking, link sharing, etc.; using the services in a way for which they were originally designed. A feed that takes up half the page on your own website from your own facebook feed (or even other's feeds) is an inefficient usage of web space. I think the cause of that is simply ignorance about the intended usage of the feature; not necessarily a trend.

The problem with having an up/down system is that there is "negativity" behind it. That negativity is also used against persons that certain people don't like as well. I use to have an up/down system, I removed it because it was being abused and only allowed staff and then created a separate group taht we felt was mature enough to handle it to be able ot use it. Well...that was too much for them to handle so now we are moving to the 'like' system once IPB 3.2 comes out. That way everything is more positive and people can't "down rate" you if they simply don't like you despite your actual content.

If used properly (which IPB hasn't used properly IMO), the like system can be a very powerful tool, not only for a user feeling good about himself/herself for posting something people like, but also as a tool to help people find content that is worthy of reading and is accurate. I have plans for how this can actually work great for admins and allowing the end user find the content that suits them best. Will be testing out in the months to come and will be closely watching my analytics data.

Invision implemented the capability of admins to disable the reputation system for a reason: The reputation system is suitable for some sites and not suitable for others. Negativity is an issue relative to the forum in question; it's not a global problem with the concept of reputation.

[TSilva]

Maybe you actually have to read and comprehend before commenting. Just saying...

Maybe you have to actually learn how to write proper arguments in a coherent post and reply to people instead of coping out with a generic retort. Just saying.

Denomination is irrelevant to my explication. What I said applies to all forms of business; whether it's selling a Lexus or selling office supplies. Also, social media is not reflective of any hierarchy of people. It is merely a modern tool used to connect people. Everyone uses it; both rich AND poor.

The features implemented in IPB are hardly what one would call "social media" implementations. Forums themselves are already the old-school style of social media and such features are just to lure users who think Facebook is the whole internet. I wouldn't leave the replacement of reputation system to a Like button as merely coincidence.

I agree with everything else you said, though.

And to add further.

I'm on my 4th community right now and something I learned from forum-based communities is that you always have to stop cliques from being formed that interact with each other, which is why the reputation system fails. You end up with a group of people who upvote each other and downvote who they dont like (as a group). In my current community I was going to make it admin-only (is it even possible?) to reward users who contribute, but from experience I would just end up with people who let such a small thing get to their heads.

Now on to the Like-button...

It also provides users an easy way of agreeing with a post or provide a "hey I'm taking your side in this" without actually having to reply just to say "agreed".

And what if you disagree? Then you have to post? So its an anti-useless post measure?

The issue with getting to people to only post if you get a positive feedback is that you create a horrible mentality within your community where people can't deal with disagreements. I can use this very forum as an example, where the IPS staff demonize customers who aren't praising them.

Learning how to deal with criticism is a virtue which can be taught by allowing others to point out the mistakes in the assumptions in which you base your viewpoints on.

[7SiN]

Not reading what you wrote...just saying.

I agree with Tanax. Maybe you oughta read what he writes.

[rastaX]

And to add further.

I'm on my 4th community right now and something I learned from forum-based communities is that you always have to stop cliques from being formed that interact with each other, which is why the reputation system fails. You end up with a group of people who upvote each other and downvote who they dont like (as a group). In my current community I was going to make it admin-only (is it even possible?) to reward users who contribute, but from experience I would just end up with people who let such a small thing get to their heads.

BAM! Hit the nail right on the head.

My feeling is that Facebook has won the "Community War". Fact is, Forums were the first to create online communities, but not really the best. The reasons stated above, people generally cleave off into cliques, whether it's high posters, chat room regulars, knowledgeable posters, big headed staff or whatever, I think we have all had to deal with forum politics. At some point it becomes difficult to get newbies to post and feel comfortable at your forum.

On the other hand, the community created by Facebook is made up of people and friends you already know. You meet new people through casual contact and can easily "defriend" them. The comfort level is high for everyone and everyone is always on the same level.

I think this fact has more or less escaped many. Forums can't compete with Facebook. It is doing the whole community thing not just differently, but far better. People have come to love the cocoon, for better or worse. There really is no way to recreate that type of community with a forum setting.

My forum is doing fairly well in spite of the fact I have virtually no community. This worried me some, but after realizing my visitor count has been steadily growing, I took a different attitude. So What?!? I have been involved as staff and owner with forums for 11 years or better. TBH, it is rather refreshing to not worry about any of the "people issues". I just have to provide content and watch the site grow. Not a bad deal. I have even considered doing away with the forums altogether, but have decided they are the ideal format for many types of content. I would love to see a lot more control over how that content is displayed and interacted with. I think the whole discussion format is fading. I think it will always have a place, but I also like the comment format. I think a lot of people are more comfortable with the "hit and run" comment like many blogs and news sites have. No membership, no commitment. Just say your piece and move along.

I think the whole Facebook platform is what it is. And it isn't suitable for forums. The whole forum platform is way overdue for an overhaul. I just hope people realize that for whatever reasons, Facebook may or may not be "all that and a bag of chips" forever. Forums need to stand on their own and emulating a popular platform is not the way to go. Checked your MySpace page lately?

[Ditchmonkey]

God do I love seeing admins with small sites hate "social networking" features and those with larger sites like having more activity on our sites actually promoting many of these features. The fact of the matter is, most of you admins' opinions don't even matter. It's our users opinions' that matter. If these features are going to increase the activity on my site, then I'm all for it. If it doesn't, then I'm removing it and trying something new. DONE. That's what some of you don't realize. You can't stick in this stagnant thing that we've known for many years...we have to innovate and create something that users are going to like and use a lot more than what we currently have!! Facebook has some of the highest ROI! I would love it if my site had that. They have the largest audience...I'm sorry if you [s]f**ls[/s] "admins" want nothing of it, but eff that, I want a lil piece of that! I want to increase my user activity, usability and readability. If you don't want that, then wtf are you doing. Get out of this industry.

I think he just called us stoopid cuz we aren't "innovating" by copying what everyone else is doing :laugh:

[Neosoph]

I disagree rastaX.

Forums are for more intense discussion while Facebook, and commenting in general, is hit and run. When someone comes to a forum they tend to get involved in the presented issue and use critical thought. When someone goes to Facebook they don't think; they merely reside in a superficial apathetic mentality and feel no drive to contribute anything meaningful to the conversation.

The core ideology behind a forum is one of intimate discussion. The core ideology of Facebook is one of vanity and quick, superficial quips that hide the core personality of those involved (due to fears of looking like an idiot in front of their friends). In my experience, the intensity of a passionate discussion on a well-constructed forum dwarfs that of any discussion on Facebook or Wordpress. The two are mutually exclusive forms of communication.

Essentially, if you want a meaningful discussion, go to a forum. If you want the social connection, go to Facebook. Forums have been around since ancient Greece; they're excellent vehicles of debate and are not going anywhere probably for the rest of time.

[CherryGirl69]

We have been discussing Facebook on my forum, which has been going for about 1 year, has 293 members and nearly 13,000 posts. My members prefer the forum because they seem to think that Facebook is more public. Really though with Facebook you can add friends, comment on their status, share photos, show moods, send private messages. You can do all that on a forum and have your own blog and have a group chat about anything!
As admin I can restrict some parts of the forum to some members groups so that privacy is maintained. My forum is a really nice friendly place to chat about lots of different subjects. I really think that Facebook is for more shallow people who want to boast 2,000 friends that they don't know but for me I now have 300 that I do know!!
My community would fit into a Social Engine type site and I have looked at them but I much prefer the forum setup.

[TSilva]

I agree with both posts above and because I'm not a hypocrite I won't touch the Like This button. :rofl:

People who think social sites can replace forums probably have never been to a really big one or are not involved in a obscure hobby.

Try to turn your forum into Facebook and you will suddenly be competing with Facebook directly. And you will lose. IPS should create functionality to make forums more special than social media as opposed to blatantly copying it.

[Christophe]

Facebook will ultimately be replaced...it is the natural order of thing on the internets

Facebook will be replaced because they will keep on growing and will need more revenues, adding more advertising and more control to the content up to a point where they will deviate so much from their original mission that they won t be Facebook anymore. I would not be surprised if they expand into other categories like Travel booking, selling tickets to concerts etc. The more they move away from the simple wall concept and friends network the more they will dilute their brand. The more their brand will be diluted the more people will look for something more concrete.

Further more I can see some serious backlash and potential problems coming up in the future where people will think twice about posting stuff. Look at these new companies that now parse and index Facebook content so that employers can check on applicants if 2 years ago they weren t in a picture smoking pot or drinking while underage or having posted something stupid.

[rastaX]

This is Business 101 stuff guys.

Social media integration and innovations are the new "thing." If you're a professional with any level of talent you should know fads are important to keep up with in this rapidly-changing online world. Being able to keep up with what your users want is the mark of a successful business. I don't understand how there is any controversy about this.

If chickens became the new "thing," guess what? You should put chickens on your site! Going against that concept is like saying you don't want to make money. The same applies to social media. It's not about what you think; it's about what the customer thinks. If you can't keep up, too bad; the competition will.

I disagree rastaX.

Forums are for more intense discussion while Facebook, and commenting in general, is hit and run. When someone comes to a forum they tend to get involved in the presented issue and use critical thought. When someone goes to Facebook they don't think; they merely reside in a superficial apathetic mentality and feel no drive to contribute anything meaningful to the conversation.

The core ideology behind a forum is one of intimate discussion. The core ideology of Facebook is one of vanity and quick, superficial quips that hide the core personality of those involved (due to fears of looking like an idiot in front of their friends). In my experience, the intensity of a passionate discussion on a well-constructed forum dwarfs that of any discussion on Facebook or Wordpress. The two are mutually exclusive forms of communication.

Essentially, if you want a meaningful discussion, go to a forum. If you want the social connection, go to Facebook. Forums have been around since ancient Greece; they're excellent vehicles of debate and are not going anywhere probably for the rest of time.

I'm a little confused here. The first post seems to indicate you think forums should be more like Facebook since we should cater to our users, the second post seems to indicate Facebook is a wasteland that can never supplant forums. (which was the point of my post)

Just to clarify my position, I believe forum software needs to become more innovative, not emulate any other platform. I think some subjects can benefit from a deep thoughtful discussion while others can benefit from quick comments. Flexibility and diversity are what I'm after, not the latest fad. ;)

[7SiN]

I think he just called us stoopid cuz we aren't "innovating" by copying what everyone else is doing :laugh:

Nope, you need to improve your reading and comprehension skills... I clearly stated that we have to create something innovating to keep people on our sites. Obviously "like" is not innovative now that it's been created, but utilizing a tool like this that is so popular around the world, is not a bad thing. What I meant by innovative, was using this feature and incorporating it a different way. Clearly I'm speaking to less-creative people and will not spill my creative juices here but my site will be having quite a few very interesting and innovative ideas rolled out over the next 6-12 months. Each time, keeping a close eye on analytics data to see what causes an increase in activity on the site. If you aren't trying to figure out how to get people to your sites and keep them there, then I don't feel you are doing your site any justice. People are looking for the data that all of our forums are creating, instead they are being lead to blogs, news articles, yahoo answers, and google groups. We need this software to make it so the great content we do have is easily accessible to our existing members as well as search engines and people using search engines.

[CherryGirl69]

I think it is ok to agree and disagree with people and to say why but not to get personal with each other and turn into being critical of each other.

[.Ian]

So,, anyone who dislikes Facebook - will you be using the new Google Plus, (assume their +1 will be part of it, along with showing on the search results). :D

[3DKiwi]

So,, anyone who dislikes Facebook - will you be using the new

Google Plus

, (assume their +1 will be part of it, along with showing on the search results).

Don't like, don't use Facebook. Ditto for Google Plus so won't be using that either. For a specialist hobby / graphics site like mine the forum format is much better suited. If IPB moves closer to being like social media software I'll be changing to something else.

3DKiwi

[CherryGirl69]

The only thing I would like on my forum is an easier Personal Messenger maybe in the side bar or something.

[Tanax]

I agree with both posts above and because I'm not a hypocrite I won't touch the Like This button. :rofl:

People who think social sites can replace forums probably have never been

to a really big one

or are not involved in a obscure hobby.

Try to turn your forum into Facebook and you will suddenly be competing with Facebook directly. And you will lose. IPS should create functionality to make forums more special than social media as opposed to blatantly copying it.

Exactly. But that's like saying Toyota shouldn't create cars with wheels because a Ferrari(who also has wheels) is a thousand times faster, more good looking and generally more upper-class.
Just because IPB adds "like", that Facebook has, doesn't mean IPB is trying to compete with Facebook. It merely adds a generally very well recognized and great feature.

[Neosoph]

I'm a little confused here. The first post seems to indicate you think forums should be more like Facebook since we should cater to our users, the second post seems to indicate Facebook is a wasteland that can never supplant forums. (which was the point of my post)

No, my first post indicates social media integration is essential, not that forums should become Facebook. The two are mutually exclusive forms of communication. I took your post as an implication that you thought forums were being phased out. I guess I read your post wrong?

"My feeling is that Facebook has won the "Community War"."
"Forums can't compete with Facebook."
"I think the whole discussion format is fading."

Just to clarify my position, I believe forum software needs to become more innovative, not emulate any other platform. I think some subjects can benefit from a deep thoughtful discussion while others can benefit from quick comments. Flexibility and diversity are what I'm after, not the latest fad. :wink:

Hah, well that's pretty much what I just said. If that's your real belief we are apparently in perfect agreement. :tongue: