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'Go to the first unread post'


Vince0789

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The few quirks that they will have a problem with are the links on niew new content... it used to take you to the first un-read post in that thread... now the links take you to the first post in the thread.




As you say you can either make the simple change or there is a link to go to the first unread post at the top of the thread.


For example, I really had to look HARD to find the "Top" button at the bottom of a thread. That's not acceptable. Fading out stuff until you mouse over it is a very bad way of designing things.



It's great you want to keep the software fresh with a new look, but the way you've gone about this change is going to create a whole lot of issues with the site owners. It's obvious a lot of thought went into the design, but you failed to take into account that it's not just young people that use this software.




There is a top 'hidden' as it was in 3.1.4 which can be quickly altered from the template to show the top after every post. (it was showing briefly here when the CSS was failing to load)

I appreciate you are not keen on buttons / links appearing when hovering over posts, but this method keeps a thread looking neat in the same way as the user info pops up when you hover over the username in some locations on the forum. I cannot see this causing an issue with many users (and we also have some older members). It also allows for more links to be added without cluttering up the page.
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But doesn't it look a bit odd with one button and text files? Not sure it looks right on the blogs - better to have all buttons or all text.



All the post controls should have some kind of image background, it wouldn't look right if they were faded though.
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  • Management

Topics like this are very useful. We have clients posting opinions that are complete and total opposites of each other. On one hand there are people who want background images and icons on every single link (which many people would say is gaudy and overkill). Then you have people who prefer a simple text link that is not intrusive (which many people would say is too subtle and not visible enough). So what are we to do when our clients have opposite views?

It's our job to find reality and a balance which is, as with all things in life, somewhere in the middle. We have some ideas now and will be tweaking the post control links a bit next week.

My point here is that feedback is a process. You will often see our staff, me included, making a point about something but we are not being stubborn. If you convince us we are wrong (in a polite way with valid points) or something can be improved, as you have here, we're open to change. It's just that we cannot make change on a whim or that's all we would do all day as everyone has an idea on everything :smile:

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There is a top 'hidden' as it was in 3.1.4 which can be quickly altered from the template to show the top after every post. (it was showing briefly here when the CSS was failing to load)



I appreciate you are not keen on buttons / links appearing when hovering over posts, but this method keeps a thread looking neat in the same way as the user info pops up when you hover over the username in some locations on the forum. I cannot see this causing an issue with many users (and we also have some older members). It also allows for more links to be added without cluttering up the page.




I, too, have placed a "top" link in every post for ease of use. But that still doesn't mean that fading things out is a good way of doing things. And as far as the popups? I have some users that are going to burst a blood vessel with that one. I'm not exactly keen on it, either, but it seems that everyone is going to that. I don't necessarily agree with the trend, but it's one thing I'll compromise on and just suck it up.

But the readability and usability issues are huge in my book. If I'm having issues seeing and finding things, I know I'll have many users on my site with the same issue and they're going to complain if it isn't changed. And I can't blame them. Especially when I'm having the same issue here. :smile:
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But the readability and usability issues are huge in my book. If I'm having issues seeing and finding things, I know I'll have many users on my site with the same issue and they're going to complain if it isn't changed. And I can't blame them. Especially when I'm having the same issue here. :smile:




But surely that is just because things are newer - for me it all seems logical, and I am not a young person by any means - one soon gets used to a new system and if people go away because of a link or two then it says more about the content or lack of it on the site. The user going away simply used the change as an excuse. It happened to me as well so I am speaking from experience. If the content is there and the traffic is there prior to any upgrade, then 95% of the users are going to stay and use the site whatever the software looks like.

I am not trying to belittle your issues as you see them, but if the post links suddenly became visible all the time, I think I would feel the forum had suddenly become crowded (especially as I intend to add one or two extra links there) and would look to re-introducing the method used at the moment.

However what I would say is that all sections should use the same method and type of links.
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Imagine this scenario. You have a user who sees interesting articles on IP.Content and thinks they'd like to participate on the site. They register, and then when they look at the forum, they don't see certain controls right off the bat. First impressions are everything, and not seeing how to reply or how to do other critical options is going to have an impact on user retention.

It's great that IPS is trying to clean things up, but it shouldn't be sterile either.

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I actually just tried this out - handed my mouse and screen to a elderly lady here, who is retired and is not a big forum user.

I simply asked her to start a new topic in a forum and to reply to a topic.

She instantly found what to do and actually remarked on the post options becoming visible 'ooh that is clever' - now I appreciate that one person is not a scientific trial, but until users actually start to use it, you will not know - we have zero proof that members will find the new system hard.

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I don't like the faded text links either, it's annoying.




They are there,taking up space...
...and they are not there because you cannot see them.
Clever...
...and yes,it's annoying.

Take Skype for example for a phone call.

My elderly friend cannot "End call" because there is no visible button to click on.
Click on the red X to quit Skype. There is no more visible Skype but he is still connected.
His solution is: Press the On-Off button on the computer twice.
Off.
On after a while.
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How do you "hover" with a smartphone?

The colour of the links is almost white on my iPhone.

Also, why are they *below* the signature? Surely the links should be under the post content? The signature is supplementary to the post content.

What about a temporary forum, during the 3.2 rollout, where IPS staff can help us with change management; how to change things in the skin (with code snippets), how to revert behaviour for certain elements (or ways to mimic 3.1.4 behaviour), etc. - a guide / hand-hold to help us switch.

Cheers,
Shaun :D

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What about a temporary forum, during the 3.2 rollout, where IPS staff can help us with change management; how to change things in the skin (with code snippets), how to revert behaviour for certain elements (or ways to mimic 3.1.4 behaviour), etc. - a guide / hand-hold to help us switch.



Cheers,


Shaun :D




I already do enough edits thankyouverymuch. IPB is beginning to remind me a lot of the old vBulletin where I spent 2 days after an update doing coding changes on the site. I do not wish to return to that.
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How do you "hover" with a smartphone?



The colour of the links is almost white on my iPhone.



Also, why are they *below* the signature? Surely the links should be under the post content? The signature is supplementary to the post content.



What about a temporary forum, during the 3.2 rollout, where IPS staff can help us with change management; how to change things in the skin (with code snippets), how to revert behaviour for certain elements (or ways to mimic 3.1.4 behaviour), etc. - a guide / hand-hold to help us switch.



Cheers,


Shaun :D




I can fix that :)
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TBH I find it quote annoying that the links "flash/pop" when you move your mouse around.

One of the key aspects of the new "look" is to focus on content - not to detract from it, and those "popping" links really do grab your eye's attention, even when you don't want them to.

Can this be turned off in the ACP or by editing the templates?

Cheers,
Shaun :D

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Topics like this are very useful. We have clients posting opinions that are complete and total opposites of each other. On one hand there are people who want background images and icons on every single link (which many people would say is gaudy and overkill). Then you have people who prefer a simple text link that is not intrusive (which many people would say is too subtle and not visible enough). So what are we to do when our clients have opposite views?



It's our job to find reality and a balance which is, as with all things in life, somewhere in the middle. We have some ideas now and will be tweaking the post control links a bit next week.



My point here is that feedback is a process. You will often see our staff, me included, making a point about something but we are not being stubborn. If you convince us we are wrong (in a polite way with valid points) or something can be improved, as you have here, we're open to change. It's just that we cannot make change on a whim or that's all we would do all day as everyone has an idea on everything :smile:




The problem you have here, Charles, is that you don't have a random mix of people who like/dislike the new board layout. It appears to me there is a clear line based on age. This new layout just doesn't seem to work for us older folks. I have to admit even after reading through this thread about the disappearing links, it was a little unsettling to try to quote you and not see anyway to do it. I am sure it is impossible to make everyone happy and you can only do so much in that regard. But you need to be wary of alienating a block of customers wholesale. Having just turned 55 yesterday, I now find myself in a whole new demographic group. I do think differently than I did when I was younger. I will never get the whole pants worn around the knees thing. :tongue: My eyes strain easily these days and this sea of white is headache inducing on my 24" monitor. I need little cues to find my way around these days. Yes, faced with a big blank page with everything hidden, no delineation of any kind anywhere, I am uncomfortable. Give me a line between posts so I know where one ends and the next begins. Don't make me hunt for commonly used features or ask me to remember how to find them. Don't make the page a minefield of hidden items that only reveal themselves to me when I happen to run my mouse across the page. I can tell you on my monitor there is a lot of extra real estate, and it is blindingly white, so much so that I need to "rest" after a little while here.

I don't envy you guys trying to make everyone happy, but that is the task you are charged with to have a popular product. You just need to realize there are people of all ages, nationalities, skill levels, etc. depending on your software. While it may be true you will never be able to make everyone happy, you need to be careful about becoming unpopular with any one group of customers.
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