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Kier's new forum script: Xenforo

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And not just any members ...



some own some pretty big forums and are already indicating they are seriously considering dumping VB for XF. :rolleyes:




Anyone with a big forum, a small forum, or any forum at all for that matter who's seriously considering that at this moment is stupid, crazy, or just plain caught up in the excitement of seeing Kier and Mike working on a new project. I like the feel. It looks nice and fast, but no one knows how it will handle load, what add on software there will be, time schedule for development of such things as a gallery or a chat or a blog or a CMS or...

Even serious Kier groupies remember there were things lacking in vBulletin 3.x as well. That's not to say it wasn't good forum software, but many things were lacking, like a gallery, a chat, a CMS, etc. Sure, many people with small boards will jump to this, particularly those who haven't ponied up for vB4, but many of those who have paid the piper are going to keep drinking IB's Kool-Aid for awhile, hoping that investment pays off in terms of perhaps a functional vB5 and a free vB5 license for having endured vB4. While that's not likely to happen, one never knows.

For those that say that vBulletin will die off I think the news of its demise is a bit premature. It has a huge installed base of customers for whom inertia is a great motivator. Switching is a big deal, especially when one is running a forum that appeals to a (somewhat) older generation of people who "finally just figured out the old system". IB has a valuable piece of software, and more importantly perhaps, a valuable customer base for it, and will sell it to a better group before they let its value simply go down the toilet. They are a publicly traded company and their board has a fiduciary responsibility to their stockholders.

As for me, well I run a modest sized board and I will probably be switching out of vB4. I made the mistake of becoming an "early adopter" and it hasn't benefited my members or myself. But I am looking at a change in the next few weeks or months, and I'm not going to jump into XenForo with my eyes closed. I'd consider it if it were a mature product. I might do just that when it is, but until that time, I'm not "stupid, crazy, or just plain caught up in the excitement of seeing Kier and Mike working on a new project".

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they already built a vB convertor :lol:

as many have said, its not massivly featured, but thats not even a problem, theres a large amount of people who will just want a simple forum, and dont want to pay for the bigger software. I think he's made a great start.

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I wouldn't pay for it yet, probably never will seems a bit late in the game.





Then by that thinking new products shouldn't be introduced because existing established ones already exist?

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it would be interesting to see where this goes. For me when using any 3rd party software i need to make sure it has a good code base in a extensible framework. IPB provides this for me while making use of all the goodness in php5 especially OOP. Now even before Kier left vb they were seriously lacking on this so it'll be interesting to see if Kier has embraced it now.



That's one of the things I looked for. They said it requires 5.2 and is a fresh build using OOD

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I think it looks nice. But the problem is it's going to be similarly priced to IPB and vB yet not have nearly the amount of features and technologies in it, at least not initially. I think the initial pricing should be much less than what they're planning and then raise it over time.

But the important thing is that this will only make IPB and vB better products in the end, and that means everyone wins.

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vB 4 is a mess, having just been bought out by a company, and is slowly dying.



I don't really agree with this. vB 4 was not released originally as planned, but it's still a very functional product and still has a very good development team behind it. I would agree that IPB 3.x has passed vB 4.x in terms of popularity due to the way vBulletin has been handled by IB, but there's no evidence anywhere to suggest vB is "dying."

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I think it looks nice. But the problem is it's going to be similarly priced to IPB and vB yet not have nearly the amount of features and technologies in it, at least not initially.




First: Have you heard this from Kier, Mike, or Ashley? Because all I've seen is speculation from members, no official word though

Second: You can't really make statements on what features will be available compared to IPB or vB. Right now XenForo is pre-Alpha. Nobody has any idea how many features will be added for the release.

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Personally I've never seen someone so indecisive in terms of what/how to run what you need for your forum etc I've seen you post at VB that it ran down your user numbers you don't know what software to use going forward etc this must transfer to your users who must be starting to trust your judgement about what is the best way going forward for the site you own. :)




I actually now have a ton of feedback on what my members didn't like in the move. It took awhile but now I have the complaints compiled and there are certain things that they still consider deal killers. Now the responses varied but there are certain things the popped up over and over again.

On the other side of the coin there is a huge number of things that I do on spreadsheets that eat up a lot of my time and getting to where I can automate those things can allow my time to do other things.

The thing most hated right now is the search engine. From the things said about it it looks the search in almost everything else will be preferred. There were several other issues raised and my older crowd likes the simplicity and easy to find things, and intuitiveness of SMF. IPB and xenForo looks better in this respect. There are quite a few more things to list.

On the indecisive part there where things that I could have done to cover some of the complaints about vB. I don't have a clue how I would cover the search engine complaints. I was going to have some things custom built to save me day to day time but I was waiting for things to become more stable out there. I really didn't want to go through a forum move again.
I was stuck between moving or waiting for things to become stable enough to do the custom work I wanted. When I saw that the refactoring was going a long time I then knew I could not wait for them anymore.

I am not trying to get as much information as I can on where to move to. Of course I am going to be indecisive until I quite a bit of information. Things are changing quickly out here in the world of forums and some things are going to be guess work. I am going to try and make the best guess that I can given the information that I can collect.

IPB scores very high on the fact Nexus is coming, it will be seen if it meets my needs or not soon I think, if it does not meet my needs right away I can see if it can be modified to meet my needs. The search works nicely and from what people say it is stable.

xenForo seems very intuitive which is a plus, the things I feel I need are not available yet but it looks like modding community will develop very fast there.

For me it is not easy to make a choice at this moment but I have to make a choice.

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If Nexus will end up doing the things i want it to do that could seal the choice. It is very interesting however what is going on over at xenForo.




My post wasn't criticising your action just it's been a couple of months of you going back and forth it just appears you are always awaiting the next thing I doubt xenforo will include what you require in the next years time if not longer.

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My guess is that the few things I need are going to be custom jobs.

My problem is I don't need a huge number of features, just some very specific ones. I think the easiest route is going to be a modification of nexus combined with a modification of the subscription system. I want there to be a seperation between subscriptions two types of subscription classes as well as physical items.

One thing I didn't find out until recently is that there are some standalone shopping carts that can integrate with forum software. I have been using the same standalone store for years and it needs to be updated badly. I can investigate that as well.

Perhaps if I integrate a standalone cart with the forum I can use Nexus purely as a subscription system if I can create a seperation between the two classes of subscriptions.

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Part of the bouncing around was listening to the guys at IB. I kept thinking that it was going to become stable faster than it has taken. I did find someone who could build one thing I wanted for vB but I didn't want to do it if things are not going to stabilize. He can build the enhanced subscription system that I want.

I started looking at IPB for it's stability but my thinking was, the moment I move vB will become low on bugs and stable and I can start modifying. It really was that a year or more of refactoring that sealed it for me. That is just too much time.

I held on as long as I did because of the size of vB's modding community. I am going to be very modder dependent I think. I don't need many mods but the ones I want seem very specific.

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I think it looks nice. But the problem is it's going to be similarly priced to IPB and vB yet not have nearly the amount of features and technologies in it, at least not initially. I think the initial pricing should be much less than what they're planning and then raise it over time.



But the important thing is that this will only make IPB and vB better products in the end, and that means everyone wins.




The pricing will determine their adoption rate ...

they get this right and they are on their way to achieving critical mass

... if they reach critical mass anything is possible afterwards.

From the looks of it I don't think they will offer more value than IPB anytime soon ...

but Kier has stated that people will be "shocked" ... this will be interesting :rolleyes:

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The pricing will determine their adoption rate ...



they get this right and they are on their way to achieving critical mass



... if they reach critical mass anything is possible afterwards.



From the looks of it I don't think they will offer more value than IPB anytime soon ...



but Kier has stated that people will be "shocked" ... this will be interesting :rolleyes:




I can only assume a steep discount in the beginning with a price hike after some success is reached. This could be bad. I can see some people feeling like this is Vb all over again.

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They gotta be up front about it. They obviously can't charge along the lines of IPB or vB initially, but if they continue to develop it further then a price increase is naturally to be expected. If they're open about this and state their plans early on in the game then no one can really find fault with it.

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Starting with a clean slate and having the background they do, anything is possible.

People are excited and probably jumping the gun, but you can't underestimate the potential here. A solid fan base is a powerful thing, look at Apple...........

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I can only assume a steep discount in the beginning with a price hike after some success is reached. This could be bad. I can see some people feeling like this is Vb all over again.



As a former vb board owner, I don't feel this is vb all over again as far as anything.

For those that don't know the entire situation, there are two versions of vb. The version that was designed and updated by the people that started xenForo, and now the one that is done by vBulletin Solutions. There weren't many people who jumped ship on vb when it was done by the xenForo people because the majority of them loved the software. There have been a lot - myself included - that left when vBulletin Solutions took over and jacked up the software.

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I wouldn't be so quick to judge the vB platform. The vB market is extremely strong and is probably one of the main reasons the company is still going. Yes, we've had LOTS of conversons from vB to IPB but it doesn't give us the right to just assume vB is dead or dying.



Supposedly sales were up last quarter. But that was before (a) the big security snafu, and (b) the fact that it will be a few months until VB addresses many basic problems. This Xenforo announcement came out of nowhere and they are surely loving it. Most of the VB crowd worships Kier and they will bring people should the forum turn out to be as good as it looks. The goal right now is just to be a darn great forum. For those of you who are talking about how much more IPB is... what is Digitalpoint? It's not much more than a forum for the most part. Xenforo is really easy to use, very quick and makes posting and reading conversations very easy.

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As a former vb board owner, I don't feel this is vb all over again as far as anything.



For those that don't know the entire situation, there are two versions of vb. The version that was designed and updated by the people that started xenForo, and now the one that is done by vBulletin Solutions. There weren't many people who jumped ship on vb when it was done by the xenForo people because the majority of them loved the software. There have been a lot - myself included - that left when vBulletin Solutions took over and jacked up the software.



That's no longer the case. It's now the software that the new guard screwed up (they are now releasing another bug fix for the absolutely final version that came out last week) and the new software that I'm now firmly convinced is hopeless until next year at earliest. Those are the reasons I'm here and very likely converting, despite the pain factor involved.

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Huh? Once a PM is read, it remains read. The information is stored was never stored on a cookie. It's been like this since 1.x.



You are 100% correct, and I am 100% wrong. I made a mistake in my testing, and I misread someones post on the issue. I apologize.


What's different about the thread marking system vs going to My Settings in IPB and selecting "Show me all content that I have not read" for View New Content Method?


...


The UI is definitely rather nice, though. Very lightweight. Other software makers would do well to learn and eliminate cruft from their styles. I'm going to be doing some postbit tweaking on my site...




Regarding the thread marking system:
When a large topic is clicked on, on this ips forum, that may have a 100 pages of replies, then the entire topic is marked as read, even if only the first 10 pages were put on the users screen. (read the first 10 pages of replies, go somewhere else).

xenforo, and one of the options in vb is, that only the replies that were actually presented on the users screen are marked as read. So reading the first 10 pages of replies of a 100 page topic, then going somewhere else, then returning to the topic and clicking on it - will present page 11 of that 100 page topic.

That feature might sound silly/corny/lame, but it is extremely important to us for our particular forum, to be sure every reply is read.

Regarding the "Show me all content I have not read" and VNC & watched topics: That works fantastic.

Regarding the ui: yes, clean, light, simple (to me), and extremely quick to navigate - that is what makes it desirable to me. I realize it is only alpha 1 and more things will be added though. My understanding is they are interested in feedback at this time to determine those types of things.


IPB is fantastic, but now there will be another option sometime in the future.

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I don't have a clue how I would cover the search engine complaints.



Just in case you don't know, using this in google: searchterm site:yoursite.com - will find serchterm on yoursite.com

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I am going to be very modder dependent I think. I don't need many mods but the ones I want seem very specific.



My position as well. I have someone who can help me with vb mods, but has no time to learn IPB. He is interested in xenforo and may take the extra time to learn it, if so, I have a support person.

Personally I don't care who wrote what software, as long as I can get support for running my forum from my own tech person.



Supposedly sales were up last quarter.



They have never broken out the 2 entities revenue that contribute to that licensing income. vb sales could be 0 and that might still be the case.

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